1220: A Brave New World

So he's not actually making buildings, but he has a few rituals that create a ton of building materials. The actual building is coming from Finesse trained grogs using rego craft magic items. Those items are listed on page three of the New Atlantis Covenant thread.

"The Church won't start a crusade over a handful of pagans even if we can round them up. Especially when it involves sending out ships and what not. The Order won't want to set a precedent against magi being attacked by the Church as long as we don't actively antagonize anyone. If we defend innocents, seek peace, stay righteous and the Divine will back us too. Anyway we can develop a spell to repel ships. I still say this place should be a sanctuary for people of any faith. Well, not infernal faiths, but I don't think those can be called "faiths" at all. Anyway if we do get bumped into a tribunal I think the Provençal tribunal is a good choice. Easy to start a covenant."

[hr][/hr]
Rolls for ritual spells: Spring of Pure Water, Sanctum of Stone and Field of Wheat, they are all level 20 Creo Fo spells, so I just need to not botch!
Did not get any zeroes!

That's probably something Meliai wouldn't know. She has no xp in Code of Hermes.

That's all Order of Hermes Lore (with a little more CoH added) another ability Meliai doesn't have any xp in. With no points in OoH Lore, Meliai barely knows the names of the houses, much less anything about them.

In fact, we have a group of magi that are very ill informed about the Order. Most of the other magi only have a 1 in OoH Lore.

Are these questions Order of Hermes Lore, or Code of Hermes?
Or to ask another way - how do the abilities interact?

Hey, Andor has 2s, not 1s! :wink: And heh, I think Andor's familiar is one of the foremost expert in the Covenant on the matter, seeing as he has 4s on both.

CoH deals with questions about the Code, how it's interpreted, how it's applied. OoH is the catch all that covers everything else about the Order. I'd say knowledge of either one implies a little knowledge of the other, however.

"I have already compromised to accept there will be Catholics present and they may worship as they see fit, but to declare the island a slave to Rome and confine my people to a single forest would be a betrayal of the very reasons I signed on to this project as well as the assurances Magnus made to me when we began. I expected pagans would be fully equal, able to participate in governance as well as members of any other faith. If I were to choose between Christians I would give refuge to Cathars, they have never torn down our holy sites nor slaughtered us for practicing our faith."

"A slave to Rome? I'd watch your words more carefully my friend, lest someone take offense. I am not suggesting that your..." he pauses for a moment, searching for the right word. "Followers can not practice their faith. However they must be discreet about it. As you wished to lay claim to the aforementioned forest, it makes sense for them to congregate there. That's not to say that they can not live wherever they please, but it would be best if they limited their worship to sites such as that. However I'm afraid you must come to grips with the fact that Catholics will be in the majority here, much like the rest of Europe."

"Take offense if you like, for you have already given plenty. I was assured that we would be able to practice openly, not have to hide away in forests as we were forced to do by the tyranny of your church back in Europe. I would rather see Atlantis returned to beneath the waves than run and hide in this land of our distant ancestors while the Catholic scourge reigns once more until they again bring death to the doorstep of our faith. I came here for freedom, gave passageway to find and raise this island seeking freedom and you offer me slavery and death for my efforts! We rule this island and we decide who may settle, and what may or may not be practiced openly. The point of raising this island was to make something new, not merely copy what has been done elsewhere!"

"We've all compromised on this matter, Meliai." Magnus looks tired as he speaks. "And it was clear from the very beginning that this was never going to be a pagan nation. There are simply too many Christians in Europe and in the Order for that to happen. I've made no secret that Christianity would be as accepted as any religion. And you had to realize that it would without any doubt make up the majority of residents of the island."

"What's more, those Christians are going to want to make peace with Rome. That doesn't make us a slave to Rome, though I expect Rome to flex its muscles. I'm not sure what we intend to do if Rome places the island under interdict because we harbor pagans. Do we act like the Waldensians and break away from Rome, running the risk of being called heretical? There are no easy answers to this question. Just as your religion should not be made to suffer, so too should Andor's not be sacrificed."

"But we'd do well to remember that this is not Meliai's private issue. The covenant of Aedes Mercurii has given us a great deal of support in the hopes that we'll create a place where their paganism will find tolerance. There is a vocal minority within the Order that supports her beliefs and desires."

"But Andor is right, without a doubt. If we are blatant about paganism on the island, it could mean war with Rome. It could mean a Crusade against us, and a fracturing of the Order over the issue. We're far from the shores of Europe, but not that far. If Rome declares a Crusade, some will answer the call."

I didn't want IBT's comemnts lost in the debate.

IBT is right about the fact that there will be people who want to stay Christian. (Expect the vast majority of people to want to stay Christian. Most of the pagans were converted in Europe hundreds of years ago.) Whether we like it or not, people will practice Christianity, and Dominion Auras will arise. The only way to prevent that is to prevent any Christians from settling on the island.

Right now with ruins being repaired and new buildings being made with the materials Andor created, the covenant is doing well for housing and such.

That's not a bad plan.

I agree that it should not be first-come-first-served. We need to distribute stewardship of the sites in a fair and equitable manner. What do you suggest IBT? Andern has already suggested that it be deteremined by who puts the most effort into building up those places. That's something that Magnus can agree to.

The problem with it being based upon the effort is a meta game issue. A character who waits to play fair won't get the head start, a player who posts less will get poorer sites.
How do you as the SG see it resolving when we've got plans running over 4 years concurrently?
Say Constantine flies up to the aura 7, plonks down a mystic tower and claims it? He can do that in week 0.

As the SG, I'm hoping that the players can come up with a plan that they can agree on. :slight_smile:

The idea of effort was one that seemed reasonable. I thought maybe each player would bid up how much effort they'd put into the site (building infrastructure, developing spells, recruiting residents, etc.) and the winner would get patronage of the site. Of course, that might not work because everyone is spending every season right now to the benefit of New Atlantis, so no one is doing more than any other. But at least it wouldn't benefit the fast posters.

How do the players see us divvying up the sites? I'm certainly open for suggestions. So far we have five magi and six 'useful' sites.

The Aerie: Aura 7
The Northern Town: Aura 5
The Artemis Grove: Aura 5
The Western Town: Aura 4
The Southern Town: Aura 3
The Magic Regio: Aura 3

Now, Meliai has offered to increase the Auras for people. But we never did settle that issue. I'm still of the opinion that while temporary increases for Auras are possible, permanent increases are not possible without a Breakthrough.

OOC:

If only the Order had a non-lethal, binding way to settle these kind of disputes...

Here's my thing, these sites provide a lot less benefit than folks think. None of them come close to matching the level 10 aura we have in the covenant proper. So unless you have a specific plan for a site, it seems very much like a non-issue.

I raised my concerns about making permanent increases to Auras too easy back in October, so I think I raised the issue early enough. I'm afraid, though, what with my stay in the hospital and getting a pacemaker, I may not have looked at everything in the excruciating detail that I should have. But at the end of the day, this is only a game and I can only do my best. Honseltly I hadn't been planning on using the Aura rules from RoP:M, but I could be convinced to do so if the troupe wants it.

To that end, I'll leave this for the troupe to decide.

As it stands, Meliai has a level 60 version of Feeding the Font of the Covenant. High, but definitely attainable by many high level members of the Order. According to the rules, after casting that ritual, you make an immediate roll on the Aura Strengthening Table, with a bonus of the magnitude of this spell (i.e., +12). If you roll a 15 or better, the Aura increases by 1 permanently. In other words, there's an 80% chance per casting of permanently raising the Aura level (at a cost of 12 vis, of course).

My concern is to ask why this isn't common practice throughout the Order? Getting a level 60 version of the spell is hard but by no means impossible, given that we have 150 year-old magi in the Order. Why do we have level 2 or 3 Auras anywhere? Why isn't every Aura at least 5? It would be, if not trivial, just a matter of 25-50 vis to get an Aura up to 5, 60 more to go all the way to 10. Expensive, yes. But well worth it in the long run.

That all having been said, I defer to the players on this one. If you want to use the Aura strengthening rules then I will bow to player will and accept the fact that we'll ultimately have level 10 Auras all over New Atlantis.

If you decide not to use those rules, then silveroak will certainly be able to swap out that spell for any other that he wishes.

You make a very good point. I hadn't thought about the fact that the Base Aura score wouldn't change. That eases my concerns quite a bit.

OOC:

  1. yes magi can rule, they simply cannot make vows of fealty- the Tremere have many independent areas they rule in the Transylvanian tribunal- personally I think this is the way to go, or handle it in a manner similar to a covenant with an autocrat, butMeliai could care less. Of course Aquarian would love to be the titular king of New Atlantis...
  2. the spell only gives +7, not +12, it is the magnitude -5, and still hits the overall limit of +/-9
  3. as I read it a permenant increase in aura is an increase to the base, which fits with the idea that old covenants may have increased auras from the vis used in aegis rituals over time.

Of course the biggest threat from using these rules may be the number of instances we are using vis for spellcasting inside an aura which is already level 10...

Clearly some more research is warranted.

That helps a lot too.

Clearly I need to read the Aura rules in RoP:M more carefully.

"The magi who made the land should rule. And our first rule should be religious tolerance. The Order has an entire House dedicated to Faeries, we're an organization of Magic, and the Divine has that whole being awesome thing going for it. Infernalists don't count. I know the Church likes to pretend it has a monopoly on God, but God pretty clearly disagrees. Anyway, so we're all agreed to religious tolerance?

I've read over the Aura rules and based on that, I don't think the results of the Aura Strenthening Table effect the Base Aura, though the Aura could be raised by the casting of a "legendary" spell (assuming the Aura doesn't already have that bonus. This is Atlantis after all. There might be the residue from ancient spells around.)

Consider what we have at the Artemis Grove: a perfect glade (natural tether 1), with a natural set of stones that mark the sun on the solstices (natural tether 2), and a located at a powerful node on a ley line (preternatural tether 2). That gives us its Base Aura of 5. What happens when the Aura is raised by the casting of a level 60 ritual? Do any of the natural thethers change? No. At best, the preternatural tethers change. In theory, we could call this "legendary" casting, which would immediately, give another +2 preternatural tether ((60-40)/10=2), which would then give a +1 Aura (since there's already a +2 preternatural tether, the next +2 preternatural tether only gives a +1 to Aura). After that, there's no more effect. (I'm going to say that only the most powerful legendary spell preternatural tether applies.) The actual Aura can change. But the Base Aura doesn't.

Of course, that also leads to the question of whether every spell of level 50 or above is a "legendary" spell or if there needs to be something more. Does that mean that everywhere that has a Hermes Portal (ReTe 75) also has a minimum of 3 Aura? ((75-40/10)=3). evidence would seem to indicate no, since Harco has many portals, but only a level 2 Aura. Does that mean if you have a level 50 non-ritual spell, you can go popping down level 1 Auras wherever you go? Is it limited to rituals? Does that mean that the first time you cast a level 50 Aegis the Aura pops up by 1? Typically we don't hear about that happening. Do spell tethers ever wear out? All good questions for consideration.

BTW, upon reading the Aura rules, I realize that there should probably be another level 5 Aura on the island. There was a level 1 Aura on the island you started on (natural tether 1 for a perfectly-shaped mountain). When the ritual was cast to raise the island (legendary magic if ever there was such), the area would probably have gained a preternatural tether of +4 ((80-40)/10=4). So there ought to be a level 5 Aura in a glen next to the top of the highest mountain on New Atlantis. I'll update the map on the wiki.