So it sounds like controlling an attacking Magi is our greatest concern and that will require most of the work. I would suggest thinking of two scenarios. One, the Magi appear outside our Aegis and attack. Two, the Magi use indirect spells like Intangible Tunnel to attack us.
For the former, would you expect our grogs, guarding the entrances, to slow down a magus? They might given some work on our part but it might be more useful for them to be able to alert everyone. How can we do this for each entrance? I believe Isen suggested a Watching Ward.
Walls are next to useless verses magi so I would put that off unless there is nothing better for the workmen to be doing.
[color=blue]"I wonder," Fiona muses, [color=blue]"how difficult it would be to enchant a bucket so that anyone who drinks from it would, after a little while, be turned into a pig? Or a sheep, or a hare, or some such?"
Isen is pleased to see the giantess interest herself to his pet peeve.
I thought about it, but discarded the idea. Mainly because this requires the opponent to touch the wall, whereas he may just cast a Voice-ranged spell. Also, I would like our first strike to take out as many people as possible. Moreso, this requires a lot of enchantments.
To put it simply, my idea was to create one enchanted item, with an intellego terram detecting wheter the external, stone was, is complete or not. A linked trigger would unleash massive destruction at voice range to anyone outside the wall, hopefully taking out a lot of opponents. For exemple, It could create a huge group of Ice Spikes and throw it out, skewering anyone outside the walls. You get the idea.
Nonetheless, I think your idea is quite suitable for Watching Ward-style straps.
Didn't you have an Arcane Connection to Britania?
I think the could send a few capable grogs there, to establish some buildings, manage them... A kind of limited chapter house, with minimum personnel, hidden from sight, ready to host us, that could serve as a fallback should we need to flee Mons Electi. The shrouded glen could be very useful in keeping it secret.
Isen lets out a soft laugh (but non-mocking)
Good resume.
In my opinion, my idea of a enchantment triggered by an attack on our wall partly solves the problem of an outside attack. This may take out some opponents, and will assuredly slow them down as they consider the possibility of other such traps. Likewise, the non-stone hidden (or created) walls we discussed might slow them down. So we need a complete wall, to serve as a trap for them, but also to protect us from any physical force they might brought to bear. We then just need to consider flying magi.
Intangible tunnel poses other problems. I heard that tremere magi use it a lot, and have myself considered learning it, if only for resistance. This is the more problematic situation, since we lack defenses against this, other than the Aegis, and, with enough vis, they can pierce through that. Worse, none of us have a way of detecting it, or acting against it.
The first, obvious precaution would be to take great care of not leaving Arcane Connections to us. But we can't count on it. This means that we must, either as individuals, learn suitable spells, or use an enchantment over the covenant to detect such spells, allowing us to retaliate. This would also help us to detect Tunnels used on covenfolk (and you don't want to know what my parens did with this), so I would very much favor this idea. Sadly, my intellego* isn't up to the task by far.
Yet, I think your way of thinking highlights why I thought you should be in charge of mundane security and the turb, while I consider the magical side of things.
No offense, it's just our different ways of thinking, and I have just as hard a time thinking as you do, and benefit from your insight, just as, hopefully, I may be of some help to you. To put it bluntly, I am surprised, and think that you may be underestimating your men. Have the recent events blunted your spirit? Have you forgotten my suggestions for the "magi squad"?
Your men will be in the first position to detect an attack, like you say. We then just need to give them a means to quickly alerting everyone, and this can, effectively, be done at no time cost with some Watching Wards. Costly in vis, sure, but we can spare it.
Nonetheless they can do more. Attacking magi will surely be protected against wood, steel, and probably stone. Yet, no defense is impenetrable, and, with luck and skill, an archer may wound an attacker**. At worst, this may distract them, and thus slow them down further.
Admittedly, this is limited. Thus my idea of the magi squad. A few grogs, equiped with items allowing them to cast obsfucating spells that may confuse or slow ennemy magi, invisible to as to be more difficult to target with magic, and armed with bone or diamond daggers should they, by any luck, be at striking range of an attacker. Not that I expect it.
*Isn't one of the new magi an intellego specialist? This would be great! Also, no warping, just like the aegis, since it would target the structure. The batiment would warp, but, IMO, this is an awesome feature.
** Shriek of the impeding shafts provides a great bonus to defense, but can be beaten by a good roll. Likewise, I'm assuming that Personnal Wards against Terram, Herbam and all don't provide absolute protection (I HATE this and, IIRC, JL isn't fond of them too), but instead a bonus to soak, like Ward against Heat and Flames. This is what I did for Isen, with base protection being +5 soak, +5 per extra magnitude. This quickly gets too high to be manageable, meaning that one must settle on lower wards, that can, likewise, be beaten by a lucky dice. Note that the lower magnitude possible for terram ward (the one used by Isen, IIRC!), means that you must be conscious of the attack, so even a warded magus may be struck down by a blow in the back
Sorry for the text wall, people...
This is quite difficult.
It would need to different spells. The first one, to change the drinker. And the second one, with a linked trigger, that would suspend the first effect for some time.
Due to the limitations of enchanted items, this would probably mean Moon or Constant duration for the first effect, and Sun or Moon duration for the second.
What's your goal here?
I should be more clear since I have too many characters Korvin is in orange. Jacques is in Green. Korvin has been making the comments. I have not gotten Jacques in the conversation yet.
[color=blue]"Yes, to my former covenant in Loch Leglean. I'm sure they wouldn't object to us passing by, although they would probably mind an army hot on our heels, and I doubt that they would want us settling there for any length of time."
[color=blue]"Boobie trap. After a long, hard-fought battle in which they've routed the defenders, I'm sure their soldiers would be hot and thirsty. And they would go to the well to quench their thirst. If, say, it were possible to enchant the bucket so that anyone who drinks from it were to be turned into a pig, à la Curse of Circe, that would effectively gut their numbers. But if the first person who drank were to be transformed right away, then no one else would drink. On the other hand, if the enchantment wouldn't take effect until after everyone's had a chance to drink, that would be more more effective."
((I think I'll kick it over to the main forums, because I can't think of a way to put a fuse on the effect like this, but I may be missing something. It just sounds like too much of a wicked cool idea to give up on so easily...and it's so rooted in legend, too.))
((That, and it sounded like Isen was talking to Alexei, too...or at least, that's the feeling I got.))
"I of course approve of outfitting the Grogs with better equipment and spells." he stops and his usual semi-serious face takes a down turn. "There is...a downside to that of course and some of you may know of it, but perhaps haven't truly seen the problem. My trusted shield grog Brionne. You've seen him...he didn't always look thus. He was actually quite handsome once. His talent at sniffing out spells, and the peculiar but pleasant nature of my Gift has unfortunately had a severe affect on him. We thus need to be somewhat careful in not applying it too often." he sighs and pours some more wine.
"For my part I can easily transcribe some of the easy spells into a charged item for ease of use and translat my lab text so we can have plenty of versions of those enchantments. It would be good to perhaps get some more of those items I got from a Verditius, they are enhanced, but not magically so, at any rate they do not get stopped by the Parma. As for the design of the walls...I hope my ideas of having clever ways to confound teleporters while enhancing our own is useful...but I wouldn't know the first thing of how to build them."
Viscaria smiles broadly. "These wall modifications are easily within my grasp, especially after all I have learned in preparation for the Tribunal.
"For myself, I think the greatest potential threat we need to defend against is the one we have already experienced -- when a core group of magi enter the covenant with specific goals. We should protect our library, vis and sources from pilfering or destruction. And prepare ourselves to deal with Hermetic assassination attempts. Alexei's turb should be able to handle an encroaching army just by virtue of training themselves to deal with all the other things that come up.
"Given the immense size of the regio and the number of doorways and boundaries throughout it, I should think that we needn't look so far as Stonehenge to create reliable back up and refugee zones. It should be possible to design such retreats right here within our own Regio.
"My concern with your wall idea, Isen, is that it is a large blanket-effect spell triggered by an enchantment. I would much rather have an Intellego device which monitors the condition of the wall, and then gives one of us the capability to do something about it, after further examination."
Sorry, yes, I got confused and thought Isen was speaking to Alexei
This is why I try to put Isen's name as often as possible when answering
Isen nods
Of course.
Maybe it can speed things up, or not. Do you know of some suitable place in Loch Leglean where we could basically establish what amounts to a secret chapterhouse?
Isen scowls
Aye. You are, of course, perfectly right. This is why I wanted the magi team to be invisible, and strike at a distance using misdirections, since they would be the ones tasked with facing magi. I hadn't thought about common soldiers, and I thank you for this reminder. Nonetheless, as they are warriors and Mons Electi is their home, I think they'll be willing to defend it anyway. So we'll have to find a way for them to warn us quickly, and for us to be as fast as possible where we are needed.
Isen is alarmed.
My god... I assumed they would have some shred of honor. But you are right. If they can cripple us, they will. Some circular wards can lessen the damage, but we'll need to do more.
I wonder... Could it be possible to invent and cast a modified version of the Shrouded Glen that would affect a Large room? This would allow us to protect our library and vis stores efficiently from such an intrusion.
Isen appears puzzled
And why is that a problem? You said yourself that you feared an attack similar to the last time. If doing so, they'll need to destroy our walls to enter Mons Electi. But we won't know where. We don't need to monitor the damage, for it'll be evident. We'll need to strike hard, and we don't know where.
Really, I fail to see how a "is this wall in good shape" enchantment would be of any utility if a band of magi destroyed part of it. Likewise with examination. Would it help us react? You're thinking like a builder, not like an assaulted warrior.
Would it slow them, or give them pause? No. Of course not. But now, if a magus cast a spell at a wall and have it crumbling, triggering both a massive conglagration that burns half his sodales and creates new, diamond walls he can't destroy, he'll go in more cautiously, or even retreat.
If I may, I have some notes in my lab describing various spells and enchantments we may add to our covenant. I'll submit them to you next time we convene
[color=blue]"Hand me a map of Scotland and a dart," Fiona grins. [color=blue]"But yes, the Highlands, the northern part of the land, tends to be more barren then the border lands. If we have to, I think we should be able to find a place to settle relatively easily."
Fiona raises a brow. [color=blue]"They sent three masked and hooded men into our covenant, killed Apollodorus with an assassin's blade, and fled when they faced opposition, and you thought that they still had honour?"
((Looking at the spell description for The Shrouded Glen, and it looks like the spell itself is what it sounds like you're looking for, although we could drop it to "Target: Structure" instead of Boundary if we want them to not be able to find the library once they're inside the manor house. We can drop the Duration to Moon, and thus make it not a Ritual and not need Vis, which would give it a spell level of 30. But, if I'm reading the spell description right, that would mean that only the caster is unaffected by the spell.))
I guess it depends whether we interpret the 2nd-to-last sentence as "Those who are present for the ritual are unaffected by the spell, since it's a ritual" or "Those who are present for the ritual are unaffected by the spell, since they were there when it got shrouded".
Yeah, rereading the sentence ("Those who are present for the ritual are unaffected by the spell."), I'm inclined to think that if you're there when the spell is cast, you don't have to make the roll to find it again. Main reason being that it says "are present" and not "participate" like it does for Aegis of the Hearth. Probably because, since you're there in the room when it's shrouded, you have an "anchor" and can find it again without any more problem than normal. The maga with No Direction Sense is still in for a bad time, though.
Perfect.
All that we need, then, is send a team of competent grogs there, with enough money to hire people and build us a chapterhouse in a secluded space. This will maybe never be used, but we will be happy to have it should we need it.
Isen laughs
You are so right. I must be becoming a proper flambeau, then, so all hope is not lost on me
(Actually, this would hide the structure. I was more thinking of a Room version, with 1 magnitude for size, in order to have a "lost room". Yes, this is as hard as the actual structure, but makes more sense IMHO. And is cooler).
At the next reunion of what is becoming quickly the Defense Council, Isen brings with him a bunch of perchments detailling various effects and mystical considerations, which he spreads out on the table, using them to illustrates his points
As promised, here are my preliminary studies on the spells and enchantments we might do. This does not include Watching Wards, although we will need to think of them, probably on a separate council.
First, there are the items for the grog team that will be tasked with confusing and delaying an attacking force. From easier and more utile to harder and less needed:
They should have a charged item casting on them a Veil of Invisibility, for maintained concentration duration. That's a fourth magnitude enchantment, and will ensure them some mesure of protection from ennemy casters. This will be the easiest part.
Another charged item to cast Doublet of Impenetrable Silk would be nice, but not nescessary. This is better for the "normal" turb, which will need the soak.
Then, an item to create fog. I was thinking of Wreath of Foul Smoke, at least 12 uses per day.
Another item to create visual illusions. This is easy: Base 1, +2 sight, + 2 sun, add one magnitude fer size, and we've got a second magnitude enchantment. I suggest also 12 uses per day.
On the subject of mundane, or not-so mundane items, I'd suggest Bone Daggers, and, if Viscaria can create some diamond heads through a ritual, crossbows.
I'd say it might be good for them to be mobile, to further avoid detection. I'd suggest Lesser items to teleport them. At least 12 uses per day. The farther, the better
Last but not least, what if, despite our precautions, someone targets them with a Mentem effect? I'd say we counter it. With a Perdo Vim enchantment, to destroy Mentem effects, with a restriction so that it doesn’t work against effects cast by us. And then, unlimited uses, with the effect being cast constantly when worn. This means, to dispell a 4th magnitude Mentem effect, a fourth magnitude enchantment. Well worth the cost, in my opinion. (Base 5, +1 touch to dispell up to Base + (4-1) magnitudes + 10 for unlimited uses = 20)
I also want to invent a Ring duration version of "Maintaining the Demanding Spell". Aside from the obvious uses, this would allow us to imprison elementals in circular wards that'd maintain the Command spell that kept them here. When needed, one would only need to cast his own command spell, and break the ring, to have an elemental under control. Breaking the ring could also be done by grogs, to unleash an uncontrolled elemental upon our foes.
Then, for the stone wall of Mons Electi:
An Intellego Terram spell that ascertain the wall’s state. This is probably a third magnitude effect, brought to fifth by the need for a constant monitoring (Base 2, +1 touch, , magnitudes for size, unlimited uses => probably lvl 15 +10 unlimited uses). This will be linked to
A CrAq Ice spell, or a Creo Terram/Herbam/Corpus/Animal one, that creates a gigantic Ice/Diamond/Wood/Bone Wall around the covenant for Sun duration if part of the wall is destroyed. This is a huge enchantment, probably around 8th magnitude, for 1 use per day, but it should put an immediate stop to any non-airbone attempt to breach our defenses.
For the buildings proper, we will need to be able to perceive if we are spied upon, or, worse, targeted through an Intangible Tunnel style effect.
This means a Structure-sized Invisible Eye Revealed effect. Cast at Touch range, for Sun duration and a Structure target, this means 4 magnitudes over the standard hermetic spell. Thus, to detect second magnitudes effects, we'll need a 5th magnitude enchantment, brought to 6 for being constant (lvl 29 exactly). It would be better to be able to detect higher magnitudes scryings, though, meaning I'd like a 6 or 7th magnitude enchantment, brought to 7 (lvl 34) or 8 (lvl 39), to detect effects up to the fourth or sixth magnitude.
(The normal spell is + 2 mag, this is +6 => detect spells up to 2*(lvl-20) meaning a spell at lvl 25 detects up to lvl 10, a lvl 30 detects lvl 20, and a lvl 35 detects lvl 30).
Sadly, this won't allow us to perceive the effect, and we'll need an added enchantment to show us what the item detected. Either a Creo Imaginem effect, or a Muto Vim one. The imaginem solution, of course, would be way easier.
I also spoke of the need to reach most covenfolk discreetly, without any ennemy magus being able to eavesdrop. This can be done as a spell or as an enchantment, probably a charged item.
All we need is a Creo Mentem effect (base 3), cast at touch range (+1) for, say, Sun duration (+2), and using the whole Structure of the manor as a medium (+3), meaning a final enchantment of 5th magnitude, with absolutely no penetration^^. Not that hard.
If evacuating to Scotland, we'll need a Leap of Homecoming style effect. I've come to think that the easiest way would be a Structure sised effect, but this still means a 11th magnitude enchantment (base 35, +1 touch, +3 structure. And they all arrive naked), with is no small feat, although it could be done as a charged item. Of course, it would leave all magi behind, which is not a good thing for those unable to flee.
The other solution, which has the advantage of auspicious shape bonuses, means a gate, through which people may step, allowing a magus to supress his parma. Assuming it translocates groups of covenfolks, this is only slightly easier (lvl 50), although we would need multiple charges.
I realize that these are important undertakings, requiring some commitment from all of us. Yet, this is not much when you consider the forces arrayed against us, and it may save our lives, or those of our covenfolks.
Peanut gallery comment: rather than charged items for Doublet of Impenetrable Silk, it would be only a level-25 enchantment to create an item that can bestow DoIS with unlimited uses. They could keep it in the barracks....
All theses are very good for the long term but what can we do right now that will alert the Covenant if we are under attack? Perhaps a lined set of bells or alarms.
As Corvin noted, most of Isen's plans are even more long-term.
He had counted on having spend time in the magic realm by tribunal, which would have allowed at least some traps and costly one-use "items" through Watching Ward, as well as casting the more powerful Aegis, but, sadly, events and more pressing priorities kept conspiring against this, utterly foiling his plans.
So, for now, our magical defenses are mostly non-existent.
He feels guilty and shameful about this, since this is his domain.
He'll have to make do with spontaneous magic (yes, I have the embryo of a small backup plan to compensate partly). But mostly, we'll have to rely on mundane thingies.
That is:
Have the wall in the regio be rebuild. This means little, but will both slow them down and serve as an alarm. Although this is not very useful for now, so if anyone opposes this, he'll yield
Have a set of bells put at the edges of the covenant. The bells having clearly different rings. The idea being that, by sounding a bell, one can clearly identify from which side comes the attack.
He'll insist that every magus able to teleport and willing to fight carries with him small pieces of rock which are arcane connections to various points of the covenant. These will be painted. The idea being that the paint serves to quickly select the AC to the place you want to go, allowing us to answer quickly to any threat, and translocate easily through Mons Electi, even to places unseen.
Send a small team of grog in scotland, with enough money to acquire land and build a fallback place. He'll have an AC to each of them, and later take an AC to the place, visiting them regularly if possible to ensure that everything's okay (not spending much time, just popping in, ensuring that there isn't a big problem, popping out)
If our finances permit it, he'll try to push for the Monjoie Company (from Grogs p41) or a team of Almogavars, and have these placed under the leadership of Alexei for the tribunal. He wouldn't be able to command them effectively, but is sure that Alexei will, and that these men, with their hermetic experience, will provide a much needed added security.
