1222-1227 Defense Discussions

[qcipher]

Alexei looks a bit confused. "I'm not sure about the shield summoning spell. Are we trying to hide grogs or make them look like they're not soldiers? The power used to create that might be better directed elsewhere, such as just having better gear with spells on them. But if the goal is to have grogs that look like servants and can suddenly be armed, I suppose that can have some uses. Regarding the dagger...Are you familiar with Vilano? A member of my House, he invented a spell that flings things but does not magically impel them at the point of contact. So if the item is mundane, like a rock, or dagger, it will fly as an arrow, and strike just as hard, no matter the parma. An item like that could be used by anyone, but might require some practice." He starts doing some calculations.

"How many charged items shall we create? If we are looking to make armour stronger for example, we could make several copies and have the spell target a group. It could maximize the time in the lab as well as the use in the field. A group of armour...ten suits, enhanced for a Moon. I already know such a spell, two spells really, one to make the armour stronger and one to make it lighter. Once I designed a simple to use item, whether charged or not, we would then have a lab text that could serve us a long time...and might be useful to sell to others as well."

[amul]

@The Fixer

If, say, you create a Ring/Circle light, it can't illuminate something outside the ring. But if you have a light spell inside the ring, which is maintained by it, its light can escape.

That just seems ridiculous. I will accept that magic light cannot illuminate creatures with magic resistance, but a magically created light source generates non-magical light, the same way that a magically created fire can create natural fires.

On the other hand, your circle can be used with multiple magi casting whatever spell is inside it,

Aye.
It is a preliminary outlook, as I said, but you're right, it is very important to know who will do what, and when. I'll admit I have not thought about it, especially as I have no right to assign tasks to any of my sodales.

"Then don't demand. Suggest! I find that if you speak in specifics, it is much easier to react to than nebulous ideas. See how even as we talked generally about providing magical enhancements to our turb, we were very nebulous, but when we suggested Alexei do it, he immediately replied with how he would prefer to do it.

"Of course, now that you say it, maybe we could commission these to one of your sodales, although I expect the vis cost to be dire."

"It's not like we're using the vis for anything else!"

Then, most items would be metal or stone, something we can expect our opponents to be warded against, whereas diamond, being more exotic, is less likely to be included in our enemies defenses. We, on the other hand, can prepare for this, so that even if they are turned against us through Rego Mentem magic, we'll be warded against diamond**
Finally, there's also Jacques. He could use these diamondheads for his arrows, allowing him, too, to pierce through any ward that would repell metal arrowheads.

"A most convincing argument. Let me check the numbers...." She pulls out a wax tablet and a abacus. "With only Theraphosa helping me, I could create a ritual that generates a Platonic Individual of gemstone in a season, but I would be very tired by the end of it. That would be maybe two or three bolt heads. We'd want at least two more magnitudes of size to make it worth our time, which would create a very large diamond, that I would then have to cut into bolts and arrowheads. Perhaps it would be easier to make a ritual Muto spell?

(CrTe Base 25: Create a cubic inch of gemstone. +1 Touch +2 Size = CrTe 40 (which I can do with Abigail AND Sheelagh, while experimenting wildly). MuTe Base 3: change dirt to stone, +2 gemstone, +2 size= MuTe 15, but I don't know if you can make a MuTe ritual)

Isen winks!!! He winks!!! Doom is coming!!!!
That's the trick! We do not need mentem, only Perdo and Vim!
And it is not that difficult an enchantment! 4th magnitude only! We should be able to do it, or hire a specialist to do it*.

"Again, sir, I say that you have convinced me."

And I'll to it gladly.
My defense plans factor this, too. Bound earth elementals, released and controlled by you and me. We can even use these as traps: The circle that contains an elemental can also serve to maintain the spell that makes it invisible. So either our enemies break the circle inadvertently, releasing an unbound and furious elemental, or our grogs do it and flee.
Nonetheless, with Valerian being an adept of Terram of considerable skill and expertise, it is probably wise to limit our use of such elementals, and learn how to conjure other kind of beings. Air Elemental being, in my opinion, quite easy to come by

"Perhaps this is a blindness due to my focus on earth, but where does one get Air Elementals from, anyway? Earth elementals comes from veins of earth that have been untouched by man.

Isen is quite puzzled.
Well, the kind of assault we already suffered, of course!
They came to our covenant, breached our wall, and, from there, translocated inside. Should they try the same tactic, the new wall will obscure their sight, thus keeping them out of our grounds. Don't you think so?

"They didn't breach our walls. They snuck in. They only blew up a wall in frustration when they couldn't get past the ward. Or at least, this is how Theraphosa described it to me: they were inside and at the door to Apollodorus's study."

So yes, our Aegis needs to be improved. But even then, we won't be safe, far from it. An "Invisible Eye"-like effect would protect us when our aegis fails, and at a much less greater risk to the caster

"How would this work, specifically? Perhaps we should create some kind of scrying device like the Tapestry of the Watch to monitor internal movement as well as look for spell effects? Something that monitors the Aegis?

@Viscaria

"Exactly how is this superior to a sturdy copper bell?"

Isen laughs, but not mockingly, not of viscaria, but from her choice of words, so down-to-earth in the midst of this high-magic discussion.

Because I don't think of just warning people to follow a preset plan. Being able to talk in the mind of our covenfolks would allow us to direct and coordinate them throughout the covenant, despite the noise and confusion. To tell covenfolks to hide in the depths, while the crossbowmen would go to the east, for exemple. This is something no copper bell could achieve.

"I remain dubious. A coherent code system would achieve the same effect. I can see us wanting to direct our turb, but the rest of the covenfolk should be left to their own initiative -- give them goals and safe havens and the capacity to choose which ones are best for them to get to."

@Viscaria

"After this, we want to develop an defensive system which everyone is familiar with that takes advantage of our particular strengths and weaknesses. The phrase Rego Terram comes sharply to mind, but even beyond that enchantments should use the vis we have in abundance, and apply our particular strengths to the task in ways we can all use.

While I agree entirely about your later approach, it seems to me that your emphasis on Rego Terram is at odds with this. Moreso, we should, in my mind, avoid relying too much on Terram, given Valerian's abilities here. You should pursue it with diligence, and I can somewhat follow you on this. But the others should follow other paths.

"Emphasis? Emphasis! We have not touched our treasure trove. Do you realize that we'll have over a queen's worth of chess pieces sitting in storage by the time Tribunal begins. That's over two hundred effective pawns of Rego Terram vis, gathering dust. And another queen's worth of Herbam and Mentem. Could we please, for the love of whatever being you claim to worship, could we begin to use our resources to defend ourselves?"

...Viscaria has got a ReMe enchant-LT of 76, which would only provide +11 levels for + 22 penetration.

(and IMPRESSIVE lab total, btw How do you manage it???).

Int 3 + MT 6 + Specialty 1 + Rego-aligned Aura 10 + Verditus(Shape/Material/Philo, Max MT) 7 + Craft:Silver 9 (Verditus bonus) + Familiar (Int 1 + MT 7 + 1 specialty) + Lab General -2 + Forge Companion 2 + Superior Tools 1 +Magic Forge 2 + Magic Trunk 2 + Greater Feature 3 + Greater Focus 4
= 57 + T+F+ Mag(Sim Spell)
= 57 + Re 10 + Me 6 = 73.

Verditus Bonuses
Lab Bonuses for Items

It's easier to see on the spreadsheet.

Hrm.....I'm short 3 points from my earlier summation. Seem to have some typos somewhere in my original formula shorthands. Keeping track of all these nickels and dimes and which ones apply when over the 5 year gap is apparently a pain in the arse.

As a spell with moon duration, working with Wizard's Communion, Isen can manage an effective Pen of about 34 (discounting the Aura, since our ennemies parma benefit from it, too). Good, but probably not enough.
If she could reach a lab total of 86, Viscaria could do it with Pen 50 in 2 seasons, but I don't know how to manage it. With help from the apprentices, maybe? Or do you have already factored it in?

I honestly hadn't thought about using Wizards Communion with anything beside Aegis. Now that we have a bunch of wizards who know it, maybe we should think about more moon duration security measures.

Abigail adds 11, bringing me to 84. An altered work routine would get me the rest of the way.

[amul]

"While we are discussing our defenses, should we consider re-organizing our government as well? This constant shifting of Princeps duties seems to be very confusing to the covenfolk, and does not highlight our strengths. In Phoenix, our covenant was run on a system designed to accomodate a family of 4 blood-related magi. It hardly suited our strengths."

Theraphosa, who actually knows something about the Code, offers a suggestion. "I myself am a fan of a system wherein each magus, familiar or companion takes a position with clearly defined responsibilities, and holds a second vote in matters under their purview. Anything not covered by such titles would be presented to the council as a whole.

"Alexei has already claimed the title of Imperator, or commander in chief. Viscaria would be a sensible choice for Aedilis, or the Commissioner of Works. We should also have a Diocetes (treasurer) to counterbalance them, whose job would be to ensure the collection of vis and other incomes, and make sure we do not overspend. Also, an Interpres (spokesman) to greet guests, and then other roles to suit temperments."

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@amul

"While we are discussing our defenses, should we consider re-organizing our government as well? This constant shifting of Princeps duties seems to be very confusing to the covenfolk, and does not highlight our strengths. In Phoenix, our covenant was run on a system designed to accomodate a family of 4 blood-related magi. It hardly suited our strengths."

Theraphosa, who actually knows something about the Code, offers a suggestion. "I myself am a fan of a system wherein each magus, familiar or companion takes a position with clearly defined responsibilities, and holds a second vote in matters under their purview. Anything not covered by such titles would be presented to the council as a whole.

"Alexei has already claimed the title of Imperator, or commander in chief. Viscaria would be a sensible choice for Aedilis, or the Commissioner of Works. We should also have a Diocetes (treasurer) to counterbalance them, whose job would be to ensure the collection of vis and other incomes, and make sure we do not overspend. Also, an Interpres (spokesman) to greet guests, and then other roles to suit temperments."

[color=blue]"I have no problem with restructuring our governance, in light of our combined experiences. I know that I, for one, find it rather frustrating that I must sacrifice two or three months out of the year. Add in the three months a year I spend in teaching Sheelagh, and that only leaves me half a year I can spend bettering myself...or bettering the covenant.

"I think an equitable distribution of duties, each according to their strengths, seems like a fair way to go. Alexei has done a good job as Imperator; I have no complaints. Korvin...I can see him handling inter-covenant relations, dealing with any visitors. Especially the magae, if the rumours I hear are to be believed?" Fiona smiles at the Mercere with half a wink.

[color=blue]"Someone to act as steward, to account for our magical resources, and to ensure that they're used most effectively. And I include ourselves in that.

"As far as mundane resources, our flocks, our silver, our people, whatever else we have. Do we want to handle that ourselves, or leave it for Henri and have him report to the Council?"

[amul]

"Let us first see what positions each maga would take up of her own choosing, and then see what holes need to be filled. Also, you should decide if positions go solely to the Gifted, or if companions and familiars also have a voice at this council."

(OOC: Traquinlina and Moro, feel free to join this discussion -- we're non-linear, remember!)

(This section will be updated as people speak up)
Alexei - Imperator
Fiona
Isen
Jacques
Korvin
Moro
Traquilina
Viscaria - Aedelis (Comissioner of Works)

[gerg]

Tranquillina stands, unconsciously smoothing out her dark green pleated skirt (one you have never seen her wear before), and waits for the spider to finish before speaking. [color=magenta]"For both decades of Nigrasaxa's existence, my pater certainly made important covenant decisions autocratically, but he left many of the day-to-day necessities to be shared among us other magi. I think the sort of bureaucracy you propose is quite tenable."

[color=magenta]"For several years there I carried out essentially the duties of a Vilicus. I had no particular expertise in communicating with craftsmen, other than simply the willingness to do so. But certainly," she adds with a muted cough, [color=magenta]"I am better suited to shepherding mundane resources than magical ones." The tiniest of blushes forms on her face at this last reference. [color=magenta]"I know none of us wants to be bothered with mere coinage - but having someone's attention on finances could well prevent another near disaster with the bishop, as happened the summer I joined you."

[color=magenta]"If Korvin wishes to assume the role of Interpres, I do not lack confidence in his abilities. I offer to be available for consultation, on any matters involving relationships with other covenants, and particularly those in the northern Tribunals."

[qcipher]

Alexei shrugs as he consider the recent direction the conversation has turned.

"I know I should be happy as Imperator. By having defined roles that do not rotate we lend stability to our home. My concern is that newcomers will either be left out of the rotation, or we shall continually be making new roles or further breaking down existing roles. The opportunity for advancement might seem small then, and the newest rival may be left with an unsavory task that they cannot seem to graduate out of. So let us take that situation into consideration."

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

[color=blue]"Perhaps something of a compromise?" Fiona offers. [color=blue]"Instead of inventing roles for every one of us, perhaps create a handful of vital roles, and name a magus to fill that role, and one for his deputy. For example, Alexei may be Imperator, and Isen may be Vice-Imperator. Someone who can help the primary, and fill in when the primary is occupied or incapacitated in some way. And who is ready to fill the role if the primary wishes to step down."

She gets up and goes to the blackboard, leaning over as she writes.

Defence – Alexei?
Muggle Affairs – [strike]Tranquillina[/strike]?
Magi Relations – Korvin?
Magical Resources – Viscaria?
Mundane Resources – [strike]Viscaria[/strike] Tranquillina?

She puts the chalk back down and looks around. [color=blue]"How does that look? Have I missed anything? Is there anything we need that can't be folded into one of those five? If need be...say, for example, we need someone in charge of ensuring that our vis is collected, that person could either be whoever's in charge of Magical Resources, or be a deputy to that person."

[amul]

"Put Tranquilina in charge of Mundane Resources, as she requested. I can handle the Magical ones.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

((Blackboard is updated. Anyone want to handle Muggle Affairs, or shall Fiona?))

[The_Fixer]

@Amul

"Then don't demand. Suggest! I find that if you speak in specifics, it is much easier to react to than nebulous ideas. See how even as we talked generally about providing magical enhancements to our turb, we were very nebulous, but when we suggested Alexei do it, he immediately replied with how he would prefer to do it.

Isen nods.

Aye. I'll take your suggestions to heart.
I am maybe too used with having to deal with rebellious and uncooperative individuals.

@Amul

About the ritual to create diamonds
MuTe Base 3: change dirt to stone, +2 gemstone, +2 size= MuTe 15, but I don't know if you can make a MuTe ritual)

Yes, you can, but you can't make a momentary permanent ritual. It would have to be sustained, and thus magical, which would defeat the purpose of the whole operation (having mundane attacks made through a very uncommon material)
Sorry, it has to be Creo Terram

@Viscaria

"Perhaps this is a blindness due to my focus on earth, but where does one get Air Elementals from, anyway? Earth elementals comes from veins of earth that have been untouched by man.

Isen smiles
Well, from the Air, of course!
To create an earth elemental, one only needs enough stone.
So to create an air elemental? You only need enough air. That's the beauty of the thing!
(At least I think. Wild serf's parma here, about how the Rarefy spell works)

@Viscaria

"They didn't breach our walls. They snuck in. They only blew up a wall in frustration when they couldn't get past the ward. Or at least, this is how Theraphosa described it to me: they were inside and at the door to Apollodorus's study."

Ah. I wasn't there at the time, thus the error.
Yet, I tend to think that, if facing a direct assault, that strategy remains valid.

@Viscaria

"How would this work, specifically? Perhaps we should create some kind of scrying device like the Tapestry of the Watch to monitor internal movement as well as look for spell effects? Something that monitors the Aegis?

The enchantment will detect Intangible Tunnels and Invisible Eyes. Like you noticed, this does us no good if it doesn't convey the information to us, especially in the case of an Intangible tunnel, where we need to perceive it.
A tapestry would thus be useless.
Which is why I suggested "an added enchantment to show us what the item detected. Either a Creo Imaginem effect, or a Muto Vim one. The imaginem solution, of course, (being) way easier*".
I can imagine a structure-sized effect doing just that.

*Although this is discutable. Would it work? I can see people saying "no".

@Amul

Int 3 + MT 6 + Specialty 1 + Rego-aligned Aura 10 + Verditus(Shape/Material/Philo, Max MT) 7 + Craft:Silver 9 (Verditus bonus) + Familiar (Int 1 + MT 7 + 1 specialty) + Lab General -2 + Forge Companion 2 + Superior Tools 1 +Magic Forge 2 + Magic Trunk 2 + Greater Feature 3 + Greater Focus 4
= 57 + T+F+ Mag(Sim Spell)
= 57 + Re 10 + Me 6 = 73.

Isen smiles wickedly when viscaria explains to him the details of his lab.
I knew you were good. I didn't knew how good. I may have other projects to submit to you
(Meaning I had a wicked idea that I just forgot )

@Amul

I honestly hadn't thought about using Wizards Communion with anything beside Aegis. Now that we have a bunch of wizards who know it, maybe we should think about more moon duration security measures.

Well, here's an added bit
The WC we know is the one used to cast the Aegis. Which is Sun duration. And a formulaic.
This means that we can all, say, cast WC on Marcus.
If, say, later on in the same day, he participates in a Tournament, he is still under the effects of the Communion!!!
I'd say this works only toward the first spell he casts, but still!!!

@Theraphosa

I honestly hadn't thought about using Wizards Communion with anything beside Aegis. Now that we have a bunch of wizards who know it, maybe we should think about more moon duration security measures.

Sigh... *
I suggested that Alexei be put in charge of the turb and our men, our armed forces if you will, while I was tasked with Magical Security. Due to our differences in outlook and training, I still think this is a sensible idea.
I know I wouldn't know what to do with our men, and I think these councils have demonstrated what I'm good at, whereas Alexei is not as... Shall we say enthusiast.

We need also spies, and counterspies. I don't like schemes and politics, but we need the knowledge, and to protect ourselves too. I think theraphosa would be well suited to this task, and Adeline surprises me everyday with her knoweldge of policitics. I suspect she could assist thera quite efficiently.

• Meaning I did a post like that, only a little more complete, some time ago

[gerg]

@The Fixer

Isen smiles wickedly when viscaria explains to him the details of his lab.
I knew you were good. I didn't knew how good. I may have other projects to submit to you

Tranquillina chuckles, almost as impressed as Isen. The slight jealousy she feels towards Viscaria's laboratory is far outweighed by the freedom she has enjoyed at Mons Electi to finally organize a proper laboratory herself, without the strict space and finance constraints she laboured under at Nigrasaxa.

@The Fixer

We need also spies, and counterspies. I don't like schemes and politics, but we need the knowledge, and to protect ourselves too. I think theraphosa would be well suited to this task, and Adeline surprises me everyday with her knoweldge of policitics. I suspect she could assist thera quite efficiently.

[color=magenta]"I would be willing to work with Theraphosa on such protections, as well as related opportunity seeking," Tranquillina offers. [color=magenta]"I was Tria's apprentice only for two years, but she did teach me a thing or two...."

[jebrick]

Jacques speaks up for the first time

Viscaria wrote:"They didn't breach our walls. They snuck in. They only blew up a wall in frustration when they couldn't get past the ward. Or at least, this is how Theraphosa described it to me: they were inside and at the door to Apollodorus's study."

Ah. I wasn't there at the time, thus the error.
Yet, I tend to think that, if facing a direct assault, that strategy remains valid.

I was there and if not for Alexei's quick thinking to cancel their Aegis Tokens, we could have been in trouble. I might then suggest that the Aegis tokens are limited and tracked carefully. We do not need another mole passing them out to our enemies.

And I would also like to be the deputy to Alexei with the Trub. They are mostly my men and I do not feel that I should be shut out of their training and deployment.

[qcipher]

Alexei nods with approval at Jacques statement.

"Nor should you be left out. I feel that the motley band has been shaping up nicely, and we definitely have your efforts as part of that reason. And when we pass out tokens perhaps it needs to be at least seconded and witnessed by another full member and a message informing all others that it has been done? That way we have no assumptions on someone's presence within our Aegis."

[amul]

Viscaria considers all this while reviewing the charter, "With so many in charge of military concerns, can we add, what did Fiona call it? Muggle Affairs to their duties? Also, reviewing the original charter, we would still want a Princeps, whose duties are solely to determine the necessity of a full Council Meeting, and run such a meeting if necessary....

"I'm wondering if this will require a major change to the charter. Not just to the section on governance, but also on Responsibilities and Censure."

Theraphosa replies, "Well, perhaps we could simply include an Amendment, which institutes these positions to remove the burden of decision-making from the full Council, without amending how remuneration for tasks is handled. We would need to outline which responsibilities are handled by each position, but essentially they would just be afforded certain powers which had previously belonged to the Princeps and the Council. For Example,

"To reduce the burden of the Princeps, and speed the process of Council meetings, the following Offices are duly created."

"The Aedilis is a position created to relieve the Council and Princeps of responsibilities regarding the collection, storehousing and security of magical resources. Those magical resources include vis sources, vis, magical items, and books of Arcane Lore. The Aedilis will ensure that vis sources are harvested and report to the Council any remuneration owed for such harvesting, and to whom. The Aedilis will maintain and enhance the security of the covenant's vis stores, in a manner subject to Council review. The Aedilis will maintain an inventory of covenant-owned magical items, and will make suggestions to the Council for the maximization of their usage. The Aedilis will work with the Diocetes to preserve, maintain and secure the covenant library, in a manner subject to Council review. The Aedilis does not have the power to authorize vis expenditures without the approval of council, except when Council authorizes the Aedilis to expend a specified quantity for specfic purpose.

"The Diocetes is a position created to relieve the Council and Princeps of responsibilities regarding the treasury, property and chattal of the covenant. These responsibilities include the collection, storehousing, and security of mundane resources, including the various business enterprises owned by the covenant; military equipment and expenditures; and any other chattal. The Diocetes will define tasks necessary to the maintenance, security and enhancement of his charges, and seek volunteers to discharge these duties, and report to the Council any remuneration owed for such tasks, and to whom. The Diocetes will work with the Aedilis to preserve, maintain and secure the covenant library, in a manner subject to Council review. The Diocetes will discharge his duties as directed by the Council."

"The Imperator is a position created to relieve the Council and Princeps of responsibilities regarding the defense of the covenant. These responsibilities include the development, maintenance and enhancement of a turb; the deployment of items and effects for security purposes; the development of strategies to safeguard the populace of the covenant, including Members. The Imperator will work with the Diocetes and Aedilis to present the Council with expenses and strategies for the Council's approval."

"The Interpres is a position created to relieve the Council and Princeps of responsibilities regarding their allies.....

"The Vilicus is a position created to relieve the Council and Princeps of responsibilities regarding the mundane populace of the covenant, and nearby territories. These responsibilities include the health and well-being of any craftsmen, laborers, servants or companions employed by the covenant directly, as well as our business allies. The Vilicus shall be ready to report on the status and well-being of those dwelling within 2 day's cursor-run of the covenant. The Vilicus will work with other Officers to present the Council with projects and strategies to maintain and enhance his charge, and shall, from time to time, be granted limited authority to act on behalf of the council in such matters."

Theraphosa considers what she's just said. "That's just off the top of my head, mind you. You'd all be responsible for determining what your own responsibilities are, and then seeking an Amendment for your individual position."

Viscaria then blanches quite visibly as she examines the charter. "Oh, dear. Listen to this part of the charter. In the event of [Apollodorus's death by] foul play, prior to the vesting period, by a member of the council, as determined by a Quaesitore, all items will be turned over to House Jerbiton and this Covenant shall be void.

"This could be quite bad for us. We need to get a Quaesitore to confirm that we didn't kill Appolodorus."

[amul]

@amul

@The Fixer

((Looking at the spell description for The Shrouded Glen, and it looks like the spell itself is what it sounds like you're looking for, although we could drop it to "Target: Structure" instead of Boundary if we want them to not be able to find the library once they're inside the manor house. We can drop the Duration to Moon, and thus make it not a Ritual and not need Vis, which would give it a spell level of 30. But, if I'm reading the spell description right, that would mean that only the caster is unaffected by the spell.))

(Actually, this would hide the structure. I was more thinking of a Room version, with 1 magnitude for size, in order to have a "lost room". Yes, this is as hard as the actual structure, but makes more sense IMHO. And is cooler).

Check the spell, it is wonky. It has target Boundary, because it enchants the entire boundary so that you can't find the structure inside it. So, by the logic of the RAW, a version with target Structure would allow you to keep a specific room hidden within that structure.

"What about casting Shrouded Glen over an escape route through the regio? I could carve out some paths just for us, which go through a Boundary of forest within our regio that is otherwise unused. Low traffic, no problem with people getting lost or too many people knowing our destination."

[The_Fixer]

@Jacques

I was there and if not for Alexei's quick thinking to cancel their Aegis Tokens, we could have been in trouble. I might then suggest that the Aegis tokens are limited and tracked carefully. We do not need another mole passing them out to our enemies.

And I would also like to be the deputy to Alexei with the Trub. They are mostly my men and I do not feel that I should be shut out of their training and deployment.

??? The token can be stolen and used to enter the Aegis by people who were not invited???
This is a huge security risk, and Isen will heavily support this motion. He'll also ask that we keep arcane connections to all token

And he'll support Jacques being Alexei's deputy on the Turb

@amul

Viscaria considers all this while reviewing the charter, "With so many in charge of military concerns, can we add, what did Fiona call it? Muggle Affairs to their duties? Also, reviewing the original charter, we would still want a Princeps, whose duties are solely to determine the necessity of a full Council Meeting, and run such a meeting if necessary....

Aye. Fiona would do that finely.

@Theraphosa

"That's just off the top of my head, mind you. You'd all be responsible for determining what your own responsibilities are, and then seeking an Amendment for your individual position."

Isen sighs
Well, as I've already stated, not only is the turb and our armed forces a full-time job, Alexei and I have different tastes and skills.
I wouldn't be good at doing his job, and it would drive me mad.
Yet, I am relatively adept at considering magical defenses, which is one of the reasons I first went to Mons Electi when I heard you were about to hoast the tribunal.
This makes sense, both from a workload perspective and from a skillset one. So the acquisition, detention and use of spells and items that would help us to defend ourselves, like... Well, everything we've discussed in these defense councils, should be my purview. And I'd like Viscaria to be my deputy, if she'll do me the honor.
I was trained by... a pirate, and a miscreant. So if you think I don't spend many hours thinking about how we could be attacked and what we can do, think again.

@Viscaria

"Oh, dear. Listen to this part of the charter. In the event of [Apollodorus's death by] foul play, prior to the vesting period, by a member of the council, as determined by a Quaesitore, all items will be turned over to House Jerbiton and this Covenant shall be void.

"This could be quite bad for us. We need to get a Quaesitore to confirm that we didn't kill Appolodorus."

Isen frowns.
This is bad. But I don't think our ennemies are aware of this, or they'd already have used that provision against us. Do we know how many people are aware of this charter?
...
So we need a quaesitor, and an untainted one. This seems to ask for a junior quaesitor, but even then, he'll be under pressure from his superiors.

@Viscaria

"What about casting Shrouded Glen over an escape route through the regio? I could carve out some paths just for us, which go through a Boundary of forest within our regio that is otherwise unused. Low traffic, no problem with people getting lost or too many people knowing our destination."

Isen laughs
Nice one, sodales, I like it! In the long term, though, this could prove not only difficult, but also quite vis expensive, so I think it is probably better to have both an item to translocate our covenfolks to safety, and escape plans for those who are outside the effect's purview.

Oh. And I've reminded the question I wanted to ask you.
Tell me. How is your Perdo Vim?

[jebrick]

@The Fixer

@Jacques

I was there and if not for Alexei's quick thinking to cancel their Aegis Tokens, we could have been in trouble. I might then suggest that the Aegis tokens are limited and tracked carefully. We do not need another mole passing them out to our enemies.

And I would also like to be the deputy to Alexei with the Trub. They are mostly my men and I do not feel that I should be shut out of their training and deployment.

??? The token can be stolen and used to enter the Aegis by people who were not invited???
This is a huge security risk, and Isen will heavily support this motion. He'll also ask that we keep arcane connections to all token

Laetitia gave the assassins the Aegis Tokens. We did not know they were given out because no one tracks them.

@Viscaria

"Oh, dear. Listen to this part of the charter. In the event of [Apollodorus's death by] foul play, prior to the vesting period, by a member of the council, as determined by a Quaesitore, all items will be turned over to House Jerbiton and this Covenant shall be void.

"This could be quite bad for us. We need to get a Quaesitore to confirm that we didn't kill Appolodorus."

Isen frowns.
This is bad. But I don't think our ennemies are aware of this, or they'd already have used that provision against us. Do we know how many people are aware of this charter?
...
So we need a quaesitor, and an untainted one. This seems to ask for a junior quaesitor, but even then, he'll be under pressure from his superiors.

I have a hard time believing that Appolodorus put that in the charter knowing that the Quaesitores were, for the most part, his enemies. I think we need to check if Laetitia did that for us before she left.

@Viscaria

"What about casting Shrouded Glen over an escape route through the regio? I could carve out some paths just for us, which go through a Boundary of forest within our regio that is otherwise unused. Low traffic, no problem with people getting lost or too many people knowing our destination."

Isen laughs
Nice one, sodales, I like it! In the long term, though, this could prove not only difficult, but also quite vis expensive, so I think it is probably better to have both an item to translocate our covenfolks to safety, and escape plans for those who are outside the effect's purview.

[/quote]
You are making this much more complicated than it needs to be and expensive as well. Do you think a conquering army is going to march in here and rape and pillage? I think we agreed that the most likely attack would be form magi who would not care for the Covenant folk one bit.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@The Fixer

@Jacques

I was there and if not for Alexei's quick thinking to cancel their Aegis Tokens, we could have been in trouble. I might then suggest that the Aegis tokens are limited and tracked carefully. We do not need another mole passing them out to our enemies.

And I would also like to be the deputy to Alexei with the Trub. They are mostly my men and I do not feel that I should be shut out of their training and deployment.

??? The token can be stolen and used to enter the Aegis by people who were not invited???
This is a huge security risk, and Isen will heavily support this motion. He'll also ask that we keep arcane connections to all token

I think the invitation can only be extended, and the token given, by someone who participated in the ritual. If we limit the number of participants to magi and the mortals who are the most trustworthy, that should be good enough.

@The Fixer

@amul

Viscaria considers all this while reviewing the charter, "With so many in charge of military concerns, can we add, what did Fiona call it? Muggle Affairs to their duties? Also, reviewing the original charter, we would still want a Princeps, whose duties are solely to determine the necessity of a full Council Meeting, and run such a meeting if necessary....

Aye. Fiona would do that finely.

[color=blue]"Aye, if we're going to have a figurehead, it might as well be someone with a nice figure," Fiona quips with a twinkle in her eye.

@The Fixer

@Viscaria

"Oh, dear. Listen to this part of the charter. In the event of [Apollodorus's death by] foul play, prior to the vesting period, by a member of the council, as determined by a Quaesitore, all items will be turned over to House Jerbiton and this Covenant shall be void.

"This could be quite bad for us. We need to get a Quaesitore to confirm that we didn't kill Appolodorus."

Isen frowns.
This is bad. But I don't think our ennemies are aware of this, or they'd already have used that provision against us. Do we know how many people are aware of this charter?
...
So we need a quaesitor, and an untainted one. This seems to ask for a junior quaesitor, but even then, he'll be under pressure from his superiors.

((this is one of those times where it would have been nice if our quaesitor hadn't ragequit on us.))

[color=blue]"The only Quaesitores I know personally are Whitburh Frithowebba and Laetitia. Does anybody else know of anyone?"

[jebrick]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@The Fixer

@Jacques

I was there and if not for Alexei's quick thinking to cancel their Aegis Tokens, we could have been in trouble. I might then suggest that the Aegis tokens are limited and tracked carefully. We do not need another mole passing them out to our enemies.

And I would also like to be the deputy to Alexei with the Trub. They are mostly my men and I do not feel that I should be shut out of their training and deployment.

??? The token can be stolen and used to enter the Aegis by people who were not invited???
This is a huge security risk, and Isen will heavily support this motion. He'll also ask that we keep arcane connections to all token

I think the invitation can only be extended, and the token given, by someone who participated in the ritual. If we limit the number of participants to magi and the mortals who are the most trustworthy, that should be good enough.

This is the quandary for allowing new players when we hit this level of paranoia. Laetitia had a ritual cast on her to allow the Guernicus high council to control her. Nice plot device but now that SHOULD be in the back of everyone's mind when we have new people who want to join. Or someone is idealistic and listens to a visiting Quaesitore or wants to get in good with them ( which is why I really hate that plot point for Falcon) and the AoH is worthless for at least 1 round. Will having people keep track of the tokens prevent this from happening? No. Will it make it much harder? Yes.

I recommend having the Precept control the tokens but must have another sign off on handing them out. Say Alexei or Jacques. Then it is not a single person handing them out.