1222-1227 OOC

Yeah, I'm not enforcing requisites on these spells, in this saga. It's a higher fantasy setting, so it doesn't make sense to enforce the requisites, to me. I never made it a HR, because it seemed implicit. I may have imposed Requisites on Alexei with Wizard's Leap when I introduced Mufarjj, but I can't recall specifically...

I believe I included the requisites in the spell totals, I'm not sure though.

You may have, in that thread... I may have insisted, because I was green to 5th edition and hadn't played or SG'd anything of note in 15 years...

But moving forward, I'm not going to make a fuss over it, because...well, it's not pertinent to the story/setting, etc.

Cool, thanks. I assume if I try it while holding in my arms a big chest of silver, or a concubine or something, you'll slap me down suitably. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah, it's things that can be reasonably stowed on your person....
Heavy pack, check.
Something you can carry with one hand, like a weapon/shield.
A chest that you can carry, no.
Another person, learn the Group version. :smiley:

Ironically, when I first started, it was easier for me to shoot nudes than anything else. I'd look up from adjusting the lights and complain, "This is not a nude shoot!" and my model would reply, "Well, it is now." And then some underwear would hit me in the face. I think they liked seeing how uncomfortable it made me.

Now that I have a body of respectable work that includes nude and non-nude projects, it's pretty much just a matter of asking people. "Hey, I would like to include you in this project. Would you like to work with me on that? No? Is there another one of my projects that you feel more connected to? Do you want to shoot some work for that?"

Of course, since I'm rarely in a position to pay people, they're often slackers. I just finished emailing a model where I informed her, "Frankly, your willingness to show pink to me does not make you a rare commodity to me. If you want to be valuable and in demand by me, then show up on time, ready to work. Then you'll be more impressive than 90% of the models I work with."

That's horrifying. I need to start doing that to people.

Note that the description in MRB specifically says "the spell is more powerful than it ought to be and has no Perdo requisite."

I prefer JL's assumption that we can feel ourselves about to enter the Aegis well before we do. Might creatures should feel its presence too, though have fewer options about what to do.

I'm not a huge fan of comics... I never had a lot of extra money as a kid. As an adult, well that money is going to different things. :smiley:
But I'm familiar with the series. Ultimately, comics use many of the tricks and tropes of mythology for telling their stories. They are soap operas that appeal to men. And none of this is a bad thing at all. I'm doing some of that here...

Deconstructing Morpheus...the ability to make dreams, walk in other dreams...that's a story of myth...

??? Not unless they have an active spell on themselves.

The Aegis works like the Parma.
It is able to block spells that were cast before they entered the Aegis. Block, not dispel, not suppress.

If you're invisible and punch a magus, his parma will resist you, and you'll be blocked by it. Your invisibility won't be dispelled or suppressed, you'll just be kept out of his Parma. But if you're not invisible, you can punch him, even if you're a magus.
IMO, the Aegis should work just as this. It is coherent with the text, and eliminates the problems outlined above with the curses.

You'll tell me about the spells that Fizzle as a sign that Aegis cancels magic. I'll say thee nay :wink:
You try to teleport something inside a magus parma. Will it work? No. The spell will fizzle. Not because the magic is canceled or suppressed (Parma doesn't do these), but because it is blocked. Likewise if you try to teleport a magus with a touch or greater range spell.

Not that this is more important than having a clear ruling about how Aegis works. So long as you avoid the Perdo Vim version :unamused:

I am sorry, I've read you 3 times, and I still do not understand what you mean.

All I can say is that HoH: MC p101 (IIRC) says that If (Duration) must be a ritual, and that, as I see it, If (duration) is the only way to do this kind of specific conditional effect with HoH: MC.
I dunnot even understand if you know this or not :confused:

About him having the vis for this, sure!!! I agree entirely! He could have put them to sleep and cast the spell without problem. It just strikes me as a difficult and time-consuming way to do something he, unless he had a deficiency with Vim, could have done way more easily and better with Intangible Tunnel (it is probably even spontable).
However, what matters here, in the end, is: Yes, Amul, it is possible for him to do it :wink:

That's too bad, really.
Although the artwork, sadly, is often not very good (Especially to a modern eye, and it is, at times, great), it is an awesome story. I recommend it heartily.

But in the number one? He casts a curse on a man. The man wakes from an horrible nightmare, finding, say, his lover at his side... Only to witness him melt horribly. He awakes screaming from this nightmare, with a nurse telling him he's been ill, calming him, to then try to murder him. He awakes, screaming... only to discover that he's, in fact, trapped in another nightmare. And so on.
He is, in fact, asleep, but the dreams are so real that each time, it feels like he's waking, whereas he's not.

No, it does not, it is explicitly stated in the text of the spell that it does not act like Parma. It even goes so far as to block Intellego spells which cannot be blocked by Parma. It goes on to say that it does have a Perdo requisite, which it should based on the capabilities of the spell.

I am not avoiding it, it is part of the spell as designed, and I am embracing it. IF you want to start slicing and dicing Aegis because it does things outside the bounds of ReVi effects, then it won't block Intellego spells that it normally wouldn't be able to block, either.

Since they mention here that conditional spells that can recur must be ritual it is implicit before that those durations, when they don't recur are not rituals. If they were, mention it first, and it becomes unnecessary to mention it again. Instead it is mentioned only and specifically for recurring spells with a conditional duration, so I deduce that it is not the case that spells with a conditional duration, but do not recur are not ritual spells. Again, this is only an issue if there are Merinita in this saga. If there were, I wouldn't allow the effect to wait for the condition to be fulfilled for more than Moon duration.

Of course, Wen, Vin or Mufarjj can't tell you when they were awake or asleep. They never had any trouble communicating and they always seemed to be going in the wrong direction, and wake up someplace other than where they went to sleep. When they awoke the last time they were here... Were the other times they woke up waking up within a dream?

That has mythological roots. :smiley:

((OOC: what I imagine happened is that Tranquillina, having heard nothing back from Mons Electi by December, contacted Tria and learned only then of Apollodorus's death. As Tranquillina was already committed to departing Nigrasaxa, Tria invited her to stay at Le Maison temporarily while matters could be resolved.))

Rather than dumping this at poor Henri's feet, who I fear will become our whipping boy for all these mistakes despite his competence, let's shift the blame to Theraphosa, the meddlesome spider who wants her web to reach out to the world. All these delightful morsels of political speculation are so tasty to her, that she offers to respond to the letter. Poor overworked Henri agrees and scarcely thinks more of it, and she completely intends to reply, once she has finished researching all this political trivia....

I like it! Thanks amul. I'll edit the letter post.

This brings us back to an important issue, what's going on with Apollodorus's sanctum? As soon as the covenant has someone who knows Greek, some things can be done... It is entirely reasonable for Henri to receive letters and put them in Apollodorus's sanctum, assuming a magus will come along later and take care of things.

:open_mouth:
The very first sentence says that it protects a covenant like the Parma protects a magus.

That, in itself, is at least as solid as a sentence near the end of the text saying that it doesn't have a Perdo requisite, especially as it never says that the Aegis cancels or suppresses spells that were cast before they entered the Aegis: it blocks them, which is quite a different term, and which is exactly what the Parma does (blocking magic).

After that first sentence, it then goes on to say how the Aegis differs from Parma, which is a normal way of proceeding: You first enunciate the general rule, and then the differences/exceptions.
You talk about the intellego spells? Well, it says "The Aegis is also able to block foreign Intellego spells, even if they cannot normally be blocked by a Parma Magica".
Why compare with Parma on this, a point where they differ, if the Aegis does not act like Parma otherwise? This is like saying "Parma blocks spells, but can't block some Intellego spells. The Aegis, being better, can block even these".

With all due respect, saying that is akin to saying "if the general rule is not repeated each time you list specific differences to it, you must assume that the exception differs in every point from the general rule, not just the points listed".

I'm sorry, but it is easier to say "B is like A, but also does x and y, which A can't do", that list again all that A can do, and then add x and y.

The fact that "the aegis protects a covenant like the parma protects a magus (...) (but/and, whatever) is also able to block foreign Intellego spells, even if they cannot normally be blocked by a Parma" absolutely does not imply that the Aegis does not act like Parma otherwise. On the contrary, since Parma, here, is the reference to which the Aegis is compared. Note, again, the use of the term "blocking", both for the Parma and the Aegis, which implies the same type of action.

You may rule however you want. I can even understand how people could believe that the Aegis dispels the Parma (like Arya did) or suppresses it.
But saying that it is clear that it doesn't work like Parma? Please.

Aegis of the Hearth does different things than Parma Magica. Granted, the very first sentence says it is like it, and then it goes on to differentiate all the things it does differently than Parma Magica
Parma has no mechanic for reducing a casting total.
Parma can block Intellego spells which cannot be blocked by Parma (this is pretty powerful).
Snuffing out spells as they are being cast is the realm of PeVi more than it is the Realm of ReVi.

What is this discussion about? It seems you want to argue with me to see your point of view. You want someone with a flight effect on them to be unable to enter an Aegis, period, unless the effect can penetrate the Aegis. I want people to know that an Aegis is coming, have time to act, and decide if it is in their interests to keep going into the Aegis? Which one tells better stories and seems more Mythic? With yours, I get this cartoon image of someone hitting a brick wall repeatedly unable to get in and having to wait until the effect expires. I also see some room for shenanigans in the vein of pink dot with your proposal.

Luckily, Henri both speaks and reads Greek (score of four). Yeah, it is ever so slightly meta-gamish, but seeing as how he was being taught/tutored by two people who did (I can't see Reynault not speaking and reading it, seeing as how he was Apollodorus's "major domo", and Apollodorus did speak and read Greek, I couldn't see them not making sure that Henri was proficient in Greek, as well.

Oh, Gerg, Gaston totally needs to check out the sideplot I started last night.

Well, he could get through some things... not much, though...because Apollodorus's writing is in Classical Greek/Ancient Greek. The translation (according to Sundered Eagle) subtracts 2 from the score... I think I had mentioned this earlier with Jebrick that when I say Greek, I mean Ancient Greek...

As the apprentice to Apollodorus's major domo, would he have been taught Ancient Greek as opposed to modern Greek? The reason I gave him Greek was to be a resource for the magi in those cases where they either need to read Apollodorus's stuff or other Greek writings they come across, or to teach them how to read it themselves.

He'd learn Greek, he'd be useful to send back to Theban tribunal, but neither Renault or Apollodorus would need him to get into Ancient Greek...and there would always have been time to cover that later.
He can still be useful, he can probably give a rough idea what something might be about, but as far as being useful to magi in that way, no.

So, Korvin is doing it 1224.3, and I'm trying to talk people into taking over the Korvin's Princeps duties in 1225.1 instead of me.