1222.OOC

And yet you took an apprentice with the Lecherousness Flaw. This is gonna be fun :smiley:

snort

He's gonna have mater issues.

  1. Thera has no proof that a page was sent for Fiona, and Tria only said that after she'd already provoked Thera's suspicions.

  2. Thera's from Iberia, where there's been a Redcap-on-Redcap war on for ages. The documents could have been stolen, forged or even just illusions. All of those options are well within Valerian's power.

  3. I was about to say that all Tria had to do was show her Aegis token, but it now occurs to me that Valerian has those as well. Not sure if Tria could have demonstrated that she is a previously-welcomed guest within the Aegis in a way that Thera can see.

  4. If, in real life, my home had just been invaded by FBI agents on an illegal search-and-seizure run where they shot up my family and TV, I would be pretty gorram jumpy every time someone knocked on my door. If one of my friends had a habit of always climbing in through a second story window instead of using the front door, then in my PTSD condition, it's very likely that I would accidentally shoot him, expecting him to be an intruder. Give the FBI guys arch-mage level powers, and I'd get even more jumpy. That's why friends knock.

Tria may have the power to come and go as she pleases, but her choice to do so has social consequences, especially in an covenant that's just been attacked when we're still mourning the dead. I mean, c'mon! She hears that Apollodorus is dead, so she decides to sneak in the back window and grab all of her stuff while no one is looking? What did she think was going to happen?

Yep.

I saw that video floating around the internet of how a bunch of DEA officers busted into the wrong home and shot a family's dog, right in front of the kids.

I flipped off every five-oh I saw for like, three weeks after that.

I, personally, believe that the Intellego Sensory Range rules are a waste, and rarely use them myself. I'm looking at InMe, base 5, R: Eye (+1), D: Diameter (+1), T: Ind, for a 15. Viscaria has Sta 0 + In 14 + Me 6 + Aura 5 = 25. On a roll of 5 or better, she could pull it off.

Sure, it has social consequences. You, and any other magus character present at this time who are interested can now explore those issues. Tria and her amica have accomplished their primary mission objective: retrieve Ulrich.

Thera's actions are certainly reasonable, as are Tria's. Ulrich belongs to Tria. She knows the fostering magus is dead. She's retrieving her apprentice. She arrived in the manner she's been allowed to arrive in previous years and has been invited to arrive in by the contract. Can and should things change? Entirely reasonable. Is she perhaps overstepping her rights? Maybe. Are you or the magi and magae of Mons Electi going to prosecute... trespassing? Thera is a familiar and has no legal rights in the Order, and interfering between a magus who has identified herself as such and demonstrated she is the master of apprentice could get the familiar and her maga in hot water.

Story wise, my goal was to not let Ulrich satisfy his urges in the method he wanted. He's an apprentice, his goals should be continually deflected by myriad different things. Holistically, yes, there's a problem with Tria popping in and out. I think I've divorced the two stories well enough for those things to be explored.

The problem with R:Eye is it has to be re-cast for every person, and without a monster concentration you can't understand two targets at once.

For the record, Laetitia would not take Ulrich without amending the contract to state that Tria does not just show up on my doorstep without calling or writing first.

For the record, that event will happen after the current events. The contract doesn't state that Tria can pull the apprentice at any time. The contract was between Tria and Apollodorus. Apollodorus is dead. She's retrieving her apprentice. Be mindful of the time stream. This is summer, and Laetitia and Fiona are off on their adventure. Fiona sent the letter, Tria's responding. Not finding Fiona, seeing Ulrich pursuing his own insterests and trying to make it with a spider? Yeah, you bet she's going to yank him.

((Not just talking, but looking two people in the eye at the same time would be Falkian... Columbo, master of Intellego))

Yeah...I guess if you put it that way, it does sound pretty bad. :slight_smile:

Oh, I didn't realize you had to maintain Eye contact for the whole duration, I thought it was just to cast the spell.

I realise that, but it sounded like the coming-and-going as she pleases is part of the fostership contract:

If the contract is null and void upon Apollodorus' death, then it sounds like she's saying she always had the right to be a nuisance guest throughout Ulrich's fostership.

I always understood it as Range being at the time of casting, not for the duration of the spell. Otherwise, Touch-range spells would only be effective if you held their hands the whole time, which would make pretty much every MuCo spell worthless.

Ah. Second paragraph under "Ranges" (p. 111): "A spell that has a continuing effect remains in effect even if the caster moves out of range. A spell that allows the caster to control the effect only permits that control as long as the caster is within range. However, it does not expire if the caster moves out of range, and he may control it again if he moves back into range."

She is the master of record. She has a right to ensure that the training happens. She hasn't been obtrusive about this, in fact has never exercised it to anyone's knowledge. But she does have a right to make unannounced visits.

Dictating the manner of her arrival could be construed as depriving her of her power. One shouldn't interpret actions now as to something I'm going to do in the future. Again, is it reasonable for Tria to check up on her apprentice when the fostering magus is dead? Is she then behaving reasonably to assert her rights if she disagrees with the manner of his supervision and instruction, since she is responsible?

R:Eye spells tend to be concentration duration, which is why I mentioned it. Might be a few with Diameter, but concentration seems to be the most common duration.

Then Laetitia won't take him.

No, sorry, that's totally inconsistent.

Either he is her apprentice and Tria bears the responsibility for his training along with all appendant rights, or she has transferred those rights and responsibilities to another magus by legally binding contract.

She does not get to both shirk her responsibilities as a master and still enjoy all the rights and protections of his master under the Code.

If this is what Tria's contract states, Laetitia would smile politely and tell her to get the hell out of her office.

You're mistaking IC interpretations for OOC ones.

A legally minded character obsessed with privacy would never, ever enter a legally binding contract with such stipulations giving Tria all the rights of ownership without any of the responsibilities. No Big Brother, period.. If Tria wants to maintain the right to be a nuisance, then let's hope Ulrich wants to be a Bonisagus. Laetitia doesn't care if Tria swears never to exercise those rights-- if it's in the contract that she HAS those rights, Laetitia won't sign it.

Laetitia would be happy to take Ulrich as an apprentice if he were HER apprentice, but not under the circumstances where some self-important schlub can show up whenever she damn well pleases and look over her shoulder. Just no way.

Then write up a contract. AS I had this between two NPCs, I didn't care. If you're a legally minded character and want to dictate the terms, then write it up. Or just offer to take him outright. For the time being, this matter is beyond your caring. I am not forcing you to abide by the terms of any contract at this point.

Fosterage is an agreement where a master of record exists. It is completely consistent that if such a long term contract is engaged in that the master of record can verify that the apprentice is being treated in accordance with the terms of the contract. She is not shirking her responsibilities as a master. That's what the contract was for. You're the one confusing IC and OOC motivations.

There's trust, and trust but verify, you're making assumptions on facts not in evidence. You don't know Apollodorus's relationship to Tria.

You also run afoul of the rule where Bonisagus can claim any apprentice

Korvin was worried about this until he was shown language in the contact that protects him from that. It also protected him from another Bonisagus trying to claim Abagail. But only while Ra'am lives.

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