1222.OOC

[jebrick]

Does she have any MT yet?

[Jonathan.Link]

@The Fixer

@jebrick

I also find it funny that some virtues are teachable. Intuitive Genius for example. Either you are intuitive or not. Just because your teacher is does not mean that your are. Most of us find that Gentle Gift should not be taught. There are several others that are much more likely to be inherited or natural rather than taught.

Yes, I felt the same way, although the author made a nice speech that sold it to me once I had the time to read it... There:
Apprentices: In my hands... - #66 by Matt_Ryan

@Jonathan.Link

The hermetic flaw at opening is an inherited flaw, selected by the player. And it gives a bonus to subsequent teaching of virtues by the master. So, this is the only way a master, in most cases, can pass on their prized virtue without having to pass on a hated flaw.

Let tackle this differently, going by your perspective to have a random flaw helping the master, but without the "opening bit".
Rule that there's one (and one only) inherited flaw that, whenever he manifests, counts toward teaching.

The apprentice's gift is weak, he just doesn't do Perdo. It's already there, before the opening, which inflicts no flaw. Yet, when the master tries to teach him his Flawless Magic, he discovers that this is way easier than expected, as the child has a natural gift from it (the ease factor is lessened).

The apprentice's gift is fine, but something goes wrong at the opening. The master later discovers that this shaped the apprentice gift in a way that gives him a natural understanding of Magic.

The apprentice's gift is fine, the opening his fine. Yet, 3 years later, when trying to impart his flawless magic, the master experiments to avoid his Waster of Vis flaw, botches and cripples him, inflicting the Perdo Deficiency.

This accomplishes exactly what you want, but instead of the apprentice having only one possible origin for what may be his hermetic flaw, he now has 3 choices.

@Jonathan.Link

Getting to SQ 21 is pretty darn difficult. Ra'am is: Com 3+Teacher 4 + 3 +6 (single student) +Good Teacher 5=21! A character with a teaching score of 4 has spent 50 xp to get it there. Com 3 and Good Teacher also indicate a singularly motivated individual to be a good teacher, which comes at the expense of something else. How many magi have com 3 and good teacher 3 and a teaching score of 4? By reading what is required to pass on virtues, I don't see how the Order isn't almost a bunch of clones where lineages have the same Hermetic virtues and apprentices look more like their masters.

Maybe because most masters aren't supposed to transmit a bunch of free virtues, but only 2 or 3, the rest coming from the apprentice's own magic (inherited virtues)?

Also, 21 is to transmit a major virtue without a flaw. It is high especially so that only great teachers will transmit one Free Major Virtue. Without any attached strings. I find it quite reasonnable. Don't you?

So yeah, going by the rules, a Master will only transmit a few virtues, most coming with a flaw. The other virtues and flaws? They are inherited. These high ease factors you're railing against are especially there to keep the apprentices from being their Master's Clone (all their best virtues), with a bunch of added (inherited) virtues.

I also fail to see how you can find fine that a master can transmit his own virtues to his apprentices, but are clearly bothered by his flaws. I mean, it's fine if an apprentice has the same 3 virtues than his master, but not the same 3 flaws?
By the rules, this only concerns a few V/F, it's 2 sides of the same coin. Is it such a great deal if the apprentices has 2 virtues and 2 flaws in common with his master, with 5 that are his own?
It also has its own nice sense of tradition, such as "The Flambeau Lineage of Taake is known for his focus in blood, but aren't very good at Ignem". You're just throwing half of that sentence out.

@Jonathan.Link

In order for a master to teach their greatest part of their gift (Virtue), they now have to impart the thing they hate the most (Flaw). I hate that. I don't want that. Do you understand why I'm insisting a flaw be there at opening?

I understand that, but I like that
It means that you've gotta make tough choices, instead of just knowing you'll be able to avoid transmitting that hated flaw.
Going by your ruling? Traditions with the most heinous flaws should be almost unknown, since it'll be easier for magi to transmit their Great Secret without their Great Problem. You'll have lineages of magi with Flawless Magic and random flaws, but no lineage of magi with Rigid Magic. IMO, this sucks.

Also, don't forget that masters may have a bunch of flaws to select from. If you really, really, want to avoid that deficiency, give him another flaw, work on your teaching, or... go out! Find another magus to teach him, indebt yourself to him! Go to the magic realm exchange your flaw for another one! Story time! You can already do all that if you really want it. It just shouldn't be easy to give Great Power while Avoiding the mandatory Great Responsability.

Responding on my phone. I don't like it I'm HR this. It is your job to bring everyone around to your point of view. Consensus of the players will reverse my decision.

[qcipher]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

Because I bore easily, and because I am both a geek and a nerd, have a chart. I'll go in and add Fiona's stuff after tennis class. It should be set up to where anyone can go in and edit. And, if we want, we can continue to use it in the future, just by adding more rows and/or columns to it. Wasn't sure if you wanted Thera on there, but I'm thinking we will want Sheelagh and Ulrich, when he comes back, on there also.

Bless you and your geekiness!

[amul]

@jebrick

Does she have any MT yet?

Our MT Summa is L6Q17. I'm betting she can stand to read it some more.

And Otto is Q14 source of AL and Philo. If you don't want her reading Arts Summae, there's plenty for her to do.

Hrm....If we gave Otto a lab tricked out for Teaching, he'd add +3 to his SQ....
Elementary Lab (Teaching Only), 1 Season
Lesser Feature/Focus - Throne/Desk, 1 Season

We've got enough Apprentices. Might as well have them set up an Teaching Lab for themselves.

Added Theraphosa to the Chart. Told her to spend some time reading all those MT books. I'm assuming familiars come AFTER apprentices when it comes to checking out books?

[qcipher]

In 1227 Winter, Alexei's Longevity Ritual failed and suffers an aging crisis. The fates conspired on that one. He needed to roll a 1 then a 9 on the first year that his aging roll went down by one because of entering the new decade, and lo and behold...he did.

He gains enough aging points to lose a point in a stat and suffers a crisis. So his already bad eyes, will become worse as I'll his Perception go down a point to -2 (2 Aging Points and 2 XP in Decrepitude).

Now, does the Ritual expend itself and he survives the Crisis without rolling, or does he have to roll?

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@qcipher

In 1227 Winter, Alexei's Longevity Ritual failed and suffers an aging crisis. The fates conspired on that one. He needed to roll a 1 then a 9 on the first year that his aging roll went down by one because of entering the new decade, and lo and behold...he did.

He gains enough aging points to lose a point in a stat and suffers a crisis. So his already bad eyes, will become worse as I'll his Perception go down a point to -2 (2 Aging Points and 2 XP in Decrepitude).

Now, does the Ritual expend itself and he survives the Crisis without rolling, or does he have to roll?

The book says (on p. 168, last paragraph) that "When the crisis occurs, the ritual assures that the character survives, but its power is spent and the focal ritual must be performed again," so it looks like you still roll to see what happens on the Crisis table (bedridden for a week or month, or a critical illness, or what have you), but you don't need to make the Stamina roll or have CrCo magic to survive.

On the plus side, you don't have to spend a season redoing the Ritual. Just pony up the Vis do the bibbity bobbity boo, and you're good.

[qcipher]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@qcipher

In 1227 Winter, Alexei's Longevity Ritual failed and suffers an aging crisis. The fates conspired on that one. He needed to roll a 1 then a 9 on the first year that his aging roll went down by one because of entering the new decade, and lo and behold...he did.

He gains enough aging points to lose a point in a stat and suffers a crisis. So his already bad eyes, will become worse as I'll his Perception go down a point to -2 (2 Aging Points and 2 XP in Decrepitude).

Now, does the Ritual expend itself and he survives the Crisis without rolling, or does he have to roll?

The book says (on p. 168, last paragraph) that "When the crisis occurs, the ritual assures that the character survives, but its power is spent and the focal ritual must be performed again," so it looks like you still roll to see what happens on the Crisis table (bedridden for a week or month, or a critical illness, or what have you), but you don't need to make the Stamina roll or have CrCo magic to survive.

On the plus side, you don't have to spend a season redoing the Ritual. Just pony up the Vis do the bibbity bobbity boo, and you're good.

I would think that he'd get one last benefit from the potion before it died out?

I'll make the roll and we'll figure it out from here.

Crisis roll:
1d10 → [9] = (9)
invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3571987/

Arrgh! Assuming we add +6 for 1/10th his age, that's a 15 and a minor illness. With a Sta roll of 3+ to make.
I'll make the roll:
1d10+2 → [4,2] = (6)
invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3571997/

So he's fine on the minor illness, but will be down for the season regardless. Would it be Spring then that he's out?

"Hey! You apprentices! Get out away from that Sanctum!"

"Cheese it! It's Old Man Alexei!"

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@qcipher

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

The book says (on p. 168, last paragraph) that "When the crisis occurs, the ritual assures that the character survives, but its power is spent and the focal ritual must be performed again," so it looks like you still roll to see what happens on the Crisis table (bedridden for a week or month, or a critical illness, or what have you), but you don't need to make the Stamina roll or have CrCo magic to survive.

On the plus side, you don't have to spend a season redoing the Ritual. Just pony up the Vis do the bibbity bobbity boo, and you're good.

I would think that he'd get one last benefit from the potion before it died out?

I'd say maybe not dying is a pretty good benefit

But that's how I'd rule it. JL may see things differently.

[Jonathan.Link]

IMO, the crisis is averted and no roll on the crisis table is necessary.

[qcipher]

He'd still lose the season though right?

[Jonathan.Link]

@qcipher

He'd still lose the season though right?

No.

[qcipher]

OK rock on. Just need to invent a new one or stick with the old.

Let's see, he had a +7 before.

Now he can make:
A base 44 lab total. He'd need 12 pawns of vis for his age, if he adds 2 more pawns (or gets just 2 more on his lab total) he can have a 46, which would give a +10. That's the smarter plan I think, so do some studying and remake in Winter. He has to learn some more Magic Theory anyway if he'd want to use more Vis, which would get him where he'd need to be.

[jebrick]

@qcipher

OK rock on. Just need to invent a new one or stick with the old.

Let's see, he had a +7 before.

Now he can make:
A base 44 lab total. He'd need 12 pawns of vis for his age, if he adds 2 more pawns (or gets just 2 more on his lab total) he can have a 46, which would give a +10. That's the smarter plan I think, so do some studying and remake in Winter. He has to learn some more Magic Theory anyway if he'd want to use more Vis, which would get him where he'd need to be.

Or you can get a real LR and allow Korvin to experiment on you Lab total of 90 before rolling And that is calculated with Korvin in 1225 not 1227.

[qcipher]

@jebrick

@qcipher

OK rock on. Just need to invent a new one or stick with the old.

Let's see, he had a +7 before.

Now he can make:
A base 44 lab total. He'd need 12 pawns of vis for his age, if he adds 2 more pawns (or gets just 2 more on his lab total) he can have a 46, which would give a +10. That's the smarter plan I think, so do some studying and remake in Winter. He has to learn some more Magic Theory anyway if he'd want to use more Vis, which would get him where he'd need to be.

Or you can get a real LR and allow Korvin to experiment on you Lab total of 90 before rolling And that is calculated with Korvin in 1225 not 1227.

Or I can do that...what kind of cost we talking?

[jebrick]

@qcipher

@jebrick

@qcipher

OK rock on. Just need to invent a new one or stick with the old.

Let's see, he had a +7 before.

Now he can make:
A base 44 lab total. He'd need 12 pawns of vis for his age, if he adds 2 more pawns (or gets just 2 more on his lab total) he can have a 46, which would give a +10. That's the smarter plan I think, so do some studying and remake in Winter. He has to learn some more Magic Theory anyway if he'd want to use more Vis, which would get him where he'd need to be.

Or you can get a real LR and allow Korvin to experiment on you Lab total of 90 before rolling And that is calculated with Korvin in 1225 not 1227.

Or I can do that...what kind of cost we talking?

You let Korvin experiment ( as he is trying to get Breakthough points) and it will cost you nothing ( to Korvin). Just the Vis it will take to cast. But if Korvin gets a discovery I will ask you do do it for another season ( does not have to be back to back seasons) so he can stabilize it.

[amul]

Hey, I know we have to be in your lab for the duration of the season, but are we doing anything while in there? Helping with the labwork? Can I read a book while you're poking and prodding me for 1 or 2 seasons?

[jebrick]

@amul

Hey, I know we have to be in your lab for the duration of the season, but are we doing anything while in there? Helping with the labwork? Can I read a book while you're poking and prodding me for 1 or 2 seasons?

Yes. You must help make the LR since it is yours. I think you get 2xp exposure.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@jebrick

@amul

Hey, I know we have to be in your lab for the duration of the season, but are we doing anything while in there? Helping with the labwork? Can I read a book while you're poking and prodding me for 1 or 2 seasons?

Yes. You must help make the LR since it is yours. I think you get 2xp exposure.

Actually, raw says that the subject simply has to be present for the whole season, but doesn't say they have to help. If they're a magus or are otherwise able to help in the lab, they usually do. But if, for example, the magus doesn't have any Leadership and they have an apprentice who's of more help in the lab, or the subject is a mundane, they can do other stuff in the lab. In my saga, Talia studied a summa while the people working on her LR did their stuff.

[Jonathan.Link]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@jebrick

@amul

Hey, I know we have to be in your lab for the duration of the season, but are we doing anything while in there? Helping with the labwork? Can I read a book while you're poking and prodding me for 1 or 2 seasons?

Yes. You must help make the LR since it is yours. I think you get 2xp exposure.

Actually, raw says that the subject simply has to be present for the whole season, but doesn't say they have to help. If they're a magus or are otherwise able to help in the lab, they usually do. But if, for example, the magus doesn't have any Leadership and they have an apprentice who's of more help in the lab, or the subject is a mundane, they can do other stuff in the lab. In my saga, Talia studied a summa while the people working on her LR did their stuff.

This is correct, Alexei doesn't have to help, he can just be present and be reading a book or something.
But Alexei's MT is pretty buff...

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

Oh, that reminds me. Where Fiona was going with the letters and the questions about giant or giant-blood magi a while back.

She is wanting to set up a conference or a summit, what have you, either in conjunction with or just after Tribunal, while all the temporary structures are still up. The summit will be, basically, about the difficulties facing the Giant-kin, within the order, with the mortals, and with magic itself. She would like to get every one of us in the order to arrive and talk about it, try to come up with ideas on how to get the world to accept us as something other than freaks, Big Bad in faerie-tales, enemies to be slain on sight, what have you.