All this talk of cutting corners and reducing wages from one number to another and granting the muggles who serve the covenant so faithfully fewer privileges goes right over Fiona's head. She had never consciously thought about the economics of the covenant before. She had always simply gotten what she asked for, and Moire had always been well taken care of, without her having to go to any great effort.
She briefly wonders if she should learn what they're talking about, and whether that's stuff she should know as Interpres and (especially) deputy Princeps, before she starts daydreaming.
Fiona doesn't answer one way or the other Brionne's question about Helmut, but merely watches him raptly. [color=blue]"Please, go on," she says if it seems like he's said he's going to.
Roberto raises an eyebrow in Spock like fashion
Without work or toil? Are you forgetting the time one must invest in order to learn or invent such a spell? The cost in vis? The long term fatiguing effects of casting a ritual, or the risk one takes if something were to go wrong (a botch)? Is it also dishonest to conjure a mystical tower instead of cutting the stne and performing the masonry yourself? Is it unethical to use your God given magical gift to prevail in combat? Is it wrong to magically conjure food to feed your starving children?
I am not saying we make a habbit of it. Just once or twice, spent carefully and sparringly as needed.
But if you insist on doing thing the hard way, I have an even better idea. We slay a dragon. Find a dragon, kill it and take it's gold. The true value is in the adventure! The prestige and hard won experience. I would rather do something like that if anyone else is game.
And what if men realize what? Am I not a man? Am I to fear man? I say the nay! I am a man, and as any man I have my rights to my power and property. Yes, I am a magus, a Gift given to me by God, and a burden as well. And in that line of thinking I can see youyr point. Our Gift should not be used for selfish purpose and to overly exault ourselves. Is such brings about our downfall, then it is the wrath of God we must fear. Not of men, for we are just but men ourselves. Do not be fooled by your pride.
And truly, I tell you this. Have pity on the man that dares lay hands upon me to make demands.
Roberto Scowls. Again, I say thee nay! These folk depend on us for their jobs and lively hood. I will abide neither dismissing, disenfranchising, nor diminishing any of them. If anyone should bear the burden of the cost of magi, it should be we magi ourselves. I propose this, that each of us becomes personally responsible for the cost of the upkeep of our labs and sanctums. It will then encourage us to be individually accountable to provide to the covenant's revenue. In place of a salary or stipend, the covenant pays each magus a wage based upon the amount of service they contribute to the welfare of the covenant.
Tranquillina almost gasps aloud at this suggestion. "I have spent countless hours arranging a laboratory suitable for the research which my House gives to the Order ... for half a decade I have readied it for the long, uncertain nights peering past the veils in our Hermetic theory. It is part of what drew me here - the resources, nay, the freedom to build a sanctum and place of study worthy of our vision. Yes, it is costly to have a laboratory better than what an apprentice could construct; but it is a price approved by this council in its foresight for what the investment might yield." She draws in a breath and continues forcefully: "So when I hear a sudden proposal to tax us for our shared ambition - like a group of brigands appearing on the bridge, proclaiming themselves toll-gatherers as the sun sets - I can only vehemently oppose it. The covenfolk here have lives far better than what they could find elsewhere; it is not disenfranchising them to mildly reduce a few extras here and there, to preserve the environment for us magi who (after all) provide that very comfort for them."
Tranquillina gets Korvin's attention again. "This is perhaps a convenient time for me to report on some information I received in a conversation with Tria and Maris. Tria Trianomae, as you know, is Tenens Occultorum of the Tribunals just to our east, and a good friend of this council; she was also my mater for two years of my apprenticeship. I spoke with her a few days after she and Isen" - she nods at the quiet blond magus - "were ambushed by Valerian. And Maris ex Tremere, as you also know, is Exarch of this Tribunal as well as those of the northern isles, and mater to our sodalis Rose here." After another nod to the young maga, Tranquillina continues.
"Before I get to what Maris told me, I might ask your perspective on something a bit odd. During the Tribunal, I managed to speak with several members of my House, particularly from the Roman Tribunal. And more than speak directly, I also found a few moments to overhear some of their conversations with their friends." Her eyes might have twinkled a little, but it is hard to be sure. "I was shocked to learn that many of them considered Tria's performance as Tenens to be quite subpar. I heard of several complaints lodged against her to Durenmar, and also that she had argued with other Bonisagi over their research." Tranquillina looks around the room, her face betraying her uncertainty. "When I confronted Tria about these reports, she shrugged them off; she admitted to being 'somewhat more inquisitive in Rome' than others deemed appropriate, and even alluded to the possibility that she might be removed from her post. - Do any of you have any light to shed on this surprising characterization?"
While I favor your views of creating silver, I tend to agree with Tranquillina on this. Since most of the Covenant's income comes from sheep and the products of them, how would you propose to have everyone pay for their sanctums? For some it might be easier to make a devices with saves time and silver. How would casting a ritual on the crops rate? How about something long term like Tranquillina and Gerulf's research? Korvin holds out his hand to stop Roberto from responding. Please think about this and in a weeks time you may present this idea with more information at the next council. Then we may debate all of the options.
Alexei sits more upright as Roberto presses his argument and then sighs.
"Let's not fool ourselves nor pretend Roberto. The toil you speak of is one gladly paid by those looking to avoid the hard work of producing hard currency, most of magic is like that is it not? Compared to operating a mine, the study, vis and casting of a Ritual would seem a small price to pay to avoid the back breaking labour of working in a mine. While using magic in combat...I think you're bringing up that point to be contrary, and raising a tower is a wonder, not something all too common and mundane as producing coins. As for producing food, I am reminded of the tales of the bible. When mana fell from Heaven the Hebrews grew to complain about its taste and lack of variety. It breeds laziness and contempt. Though in times of need I can certainly agree that it might be necessary. As for figthing a dragon..." a wistful look comes over him for a few moments. "Find a dragon...that might answer some problems."
"Now then, this contempt you have for men finding out about us and our abilities...I find this troubling. For starters, remember the Oath we swore, not to bring ruin upon our Sodales by our actions. Subtlety should rule our decisions in this regard, and there is little subtlety about conjuring coins! But you do make an excellent point, and it gladdens me that you made it, that we are endowed by God with our power, rights, property as well as a responsibility to use them all well, and fight for them if necessary. But you...of all people...you have no fear of man? Not their armies, not their greed, not their lust for that which they don't have? As a fighting man Roberto, as one who so often works with fighting men and has seen the devastion that an army on the march can cause...you have no fear of that? Fear of God is good, but to ignore that which God has made to master the Earth..." he looks pointedly to Fiona as this conversation was so similar to one they had recently. "But we are now straying far from the topic. We can talk of that another time I feel. I believe we have settled the conjuring money question? And if not, let us call it to a vote."
"My eyes were opened when you and I went to see the Bishop, especially at how much they know about the Order. So to answer your question, no doubt some know that we can do these things. But still, by and large most do not, and I think it is largely due to our discretion. The few that do know display their wisdom by not seeking to demand things of us. But we certainly can't trust others to be so wise, and so it returns to my preference for avoiding making gold unless we absolutely needed to. I have no objection though for using magic that can enhance our primary income. To maintain the health of the flock, induce many new sheep to be born, and to shear them quickly. I believe those are all wise and subtle uses of our power, that can increase dividends." Alexei pauses.
"We have other options as well, and they may go over well in this Tribunal, now that recent changes have been made. Our home has many combat ready Magi in it, plus a very large turb of grogs. The Chief Hoplite resides here as well. For some of the less martially inclined Covenants, perhaps they'd be willing to pay to be under our banner and enjoy our protection? That alone might deter some of the raiding that goes on here. This is...just a suggestion, it would require much more deliberation to make it profitable. But as long as we're talking about income we should solicit these ideas I think."
Man is not master of this Earth. The devil is lord of this world, and will reign until Christ himself returns to triumphantly topple his evil regieme and establish the kingdom of heaven. It says so clearly in the book of Revelation. And that is more theology than this character would probably know, so blame it on the player's evangelical studies
As for my "contempt", I think you do not get my point. I am also a man and can form armies as well. You keep speaking of magi as if we were a different breed of creature.
And yes, I have been in war before. And it is my experience that taught me not to fear battle. Some may call me Reckless or Overconfident. I say instead I am merely self assured and introspective. I fear not man, war, or even death. I fear only God.
As for armies of our own, I would like to discuss strategy and tactics on the exercise feild one day soon. I think you need to concieve of things in a different way. Guerros, gurilla warefare of the almogavars, a paramilitary force as opposed to trying to emulate knightly combat. The Frankish style. it has served you northerners well for hundreds of years, true enough. But I have a hunch that this great age of cavalry is coming to a close sooner rather than latter. Roman strength was in it's infantry, and in Iberia, footsoldiers have grown to equal and exceed the prowess of trhe horseman.
Now, someone mentioned offering to sell protection to other covenants. I say we form a mercenary company and hire out small units of guards or contracts for elite shield grogs.
I also want to find a dragon. It seems that I did find something someone can agree with me upon. A grand adventure is what we need!
Brionne shrugs. "Well m'lady, Alexei was quite angry with himself because the bandits while not too clever were hiding from us because they knew the lay of the area. Alexei of course was not using all of his power, so as not to reveal himself. We sent Helmut into town on a route that we thought was safe. Hours later one of the brigands entered our camp peacefully with a letter in Helmut's handwriting. He was a smart mouthed horse's ass he was. When Alexei read it, he flew into a fury almost killed the man right there. Michel and I managed to keep him calm and we took the messenger prisoner, we were going to trade them. Alexei is as mad as I'd ever seen him, all the more because our rations were low. When he gets this mad a drink or two of wine usually helps out, but we had run out that day, all he had was the allotted officer's portion at his meal. Helmut was going into town to secure more rations and wine you see." Brionne helps himself to more wine as he thinks back to this.
"So as it's getting dark Alexei's mood is getting worse and he tried talking to the man, but he really shouldn't have. He was insulting Alexei's manhood and suggesting all kinds of things about how he and Helmt were...well you know...Alexei then suddenly goes to the letter and holds it up to a lamp and reads it a few times and starts laughing. I knew it was bad then. That's the laugh of someone about to do something terrible. You may have heard a few of those others back at the barn that one night a few years ago. Once he read the message again he saw the codes that Helmut put in and knew where to find him. He goes to the messenger and said, and I'll never forget this. He said 'You will deliver my message to the rest of your bandit filth. Listen carefully, for I shall only say this once. Are you listening?'" Brionne takes another drink of wine. "The bandit lost all his courage right then...Alexei took up a sword and cut his head off in a stroke. Then he took the head and was off into the woods, knew exactly where to find the rest. We were barely able to follow him, we only came onto the scene once it was over. Poor lad was terrified, we told him that it was too much wine that got into Alexei, we didn't want him to know the truth. Alexei killed all those men...and he was stone cold sober. That's what Alexei is m'lady, that's what he does." he drains his cup.
"Alexei is a great man. That don't mean he's a good man, though he's sure better than most. But one thing you don't do to a great man is make him feel small. Those bandits, they did that to him. Made him feel small, weak, that he couldn't protect the ones that he loved. When you do that to someone like Alexei..." Brionne crosses himself at the memory. "it's not good."
The danger, as you see it, is if we blatantly spend 500 marks on something it will be noticed? What if we just created the silver. Used another spell to make it into duplicate coins. Copying one we have at hand. Then use it to pay our servants and turb while finding another source of income for Mons Electi.
So if I were to make a ritual to create a hundred or so wooly sheep that is acceptable? Then we shear and butcher them for profit.
Well, Alexei, take a week and figure out how you would use the turb as mercenaries. It sounds like Roberto can help you plan. The cost and benefits as well.
Alexei's eyes narrow at the theological contradiction. "The devil is not lord of the Earth, Man is. That the devil is lord of evil and that evil is so powerful in the world does not mean that he reigns here. He is not the crowned king. When Jesu comes again in Glory all earthly kingdoms shall be put aside for the Heavenly one, and those residing in it and in Hell shall be left behind!" ((Alexei nor myself are theologians either...))
He takes a deep breath. "We can discuss that, and finding a dragon, and setting up a mercenary company on our own time though, and I'm sure our Sodales would be glad of that. For the mercenary company I think some guidelines most be mentioned here to base our discussion on. We should look to the way the Verditians make arrangements to sell their wares, with intermediaries. And we need to make sure that there is no employed lordship or vassalage to a mundane lord or knight. If we can't find a way to do that, then we shouldn't try this as a means of making money, it will just see us brought before the Tribunal."
Stultus, who has been trying very hard not to jump into the theological discussion with both feet, blinks at Alexei thoughtfully. "Actually, sodalis, something has just occurred to me. A way to perhaps bolster our funds temporarily, that you are uniquely suited to... in fact, that you and ONLY you could do." He sits up straighter. "Tell me... how would you rate your prowess as a knight if you were to use no magic whatsoever?"
Alexei cocks an eyebrow at Stultus, unsure if this is a prelude to a jest or not. "I'd say I am decent as a knight...though the only order I belong to is the Milites, which is obviosuly not a recognized order of knights. Are you suggesting entering the tournament circuit?"
"Exactly. I don't make the suggestion lightly -- it's a great deal more dangerous than most other methods, and I realize that -- but since you were talking about mercenary work anyway, it might be worth looking into? There's a great deal of money to be made, as I understand it, from purses and ransoms both." And a hefty amount to be made as well by, say, an unscrupulous magus skilled in Mentem placing bets on Alexei -- but Stultus doesn't say that part out loud. He's a Fool, not stupid.
Alexei shakes his head ((though he obviosuly doesn't know the mentem aspect of this gambit)). "Assuming the best results, this would be temporary as you said. There are decent purses for these tournaments but also risk. Equipping me as a knight has costs. Plus we'd have to make patens and other fraudulent documents to assert my knighthood, which I care not to do, and I can't see the Milites approving of that either. Finally this would certainly be an activity that not just the Guernicus, but most other magi would say could have results that affect them. I just can't see how this would turn out well." Alexei pauses for a bit before continuing. "That being said...sponsoring a knight, a champion...perhaps that could be done. We'd need to keep degrees of separation of course, but there could be some short term windfalls. The idea is not without merit, but a magus competing I think would not be allowed."
I would hold off putting Alexei in your plans until he learns the extent of his new duties. But I will remind him of the Longevity Ritual we will work on in the 1st season of next year.
Roberto shakes his head. No-no-no. No mundanes. Hermetic clientel only. Say a covenant needs to buff up their turb. They strike a contract with us for a dozen men. Or a covenant has specific need of a woodsman or a specialist agent. They comne to us. An advernturing magus needs a few stout shield grogs for his latest enterprise. He hires some of our finest. In no way do I want to deal with mundanes in these matters. I know I sound like I am contradicting myself concerning what I said earlier. But in matters such as this, it is imperitive that we keep ourselves separate. The soldiers in the employ of this theoretical company we may form. We will owe them support and security. Longevity rituals at age 40, retain key officers and highly experienced veterans while they are still pysically capable and healthy. Healing Rituals. Perhaps enchanted armaents. And pensions. That's the way it's done. Now suppose we were to hire out mercenaries to a mundane lord, call him Tom. Tom gets into a fight with Dick. Dick's cousing Harry gets involved, but Harry happens to be another of our clients. Our men will be facing one another. Or say perhaps not. Our men will be facing overwhelming odds, and may call upon our support.
Roberto frowns. Not a good idea. Why fight without the weapon's God has given you? Why tie an arm behind your back? And it is meddling in mundane affairs. Even sponsoring a mundane. And frankly, I have no taste for the Frankish style cavaliers and their treatment of the art of war as if it were sport. Alexi, you drew a moral line at conjuring gold and washed your hands of the idea. Her I wash my own hands. War is serious business, not a game. The purpose of combat is to nullify the enemies ability to continue aggression. There is no glory, no honor, no ceremony. Only duty. War is a terrible thing. The most wretched horrible thing imaginable. It destroys homes, families, and communities. It lays waste to fields of foe and friend alike. It brings out the best in a man, and the worst. And a wellspring of camp vices that follow into regular society. War is in fact so terrible a thing, that the most noble sacrifice a man can make is to place his own physical body between the onslaught and those he holds dear. I stress this because the purpose of combat is to put an end to aggression as quickly as possible. By virtually any means necessary. It is not to be prolonged for entertainment, show, or recreation. The whole concept of the "joust" boggles my mind. Cavaliers in Aragon do it too, and I do not understand it. If your enemy's superior strength comes from the fact that he rides a horse, then kill the damned horse! Trying to knock the guy off his horse seems so very unrealistic and unnecessarilly complicated. If I were engaged in such a combat, astride a mount of my own; I would jam the butt of my spear in my stirrup for extra support, and aim low for the opposing steeds neck or heart.
Warriors earn their accolades from battles fought and won, not simulations and games. They are not like roosters or wild dogs to be put in an arena to fight for the amusment of others.
Alexei nods in agreement with Roberto. "I'd have to concur with Roberto both on the mercenary company and the tourney. We need to consider the risks with new income. I had suggested that we keep separate a mercenary company from mundanes, but perhaps it is best to avoid that altogether and hire out to Covenants and Magi only. We'd need to make contracts and agreements and hammer out some other details of course. This could be lucrative and increase our influence even furtherm, it would also increase our entanglements of course too. And by doing this, we would not, as Roberto said, be fighting with one arm tied behind our back. We could enhance the men and their equipment with spells and even magical gear if we thought it was important enough. We could include that in our rates as well. We should offer two prices, one in silver and the other vis, just to make it look like we are not doing this for mere silver. They could then have the option to pay either, and would likely pay silver."
"I'd also have to agree regarding the tourneys, at least with staying out of them. If our goal is to stay above the petty attacks of Guernicus we must not present a target."
