1228-1229 OOC

shrug It's just a personality trait that she's picked up over the years that I just never got around to actually putting on the character sheet. I'll fix it now.

Okay, guys. Here's my issue.

  1. We're attempting to guard against magi with high Parma scores. That means wards are of strictly limited utility.

  2. We're attempting to guard against powerful, skilled magi. The Aegis helps with that, true, but obtaining a casting token through social or underhanded means is relatively uncomplicated. (Say Bilera shows up with a half-dozen Hoplites in tow, says she's here to investigate, oh, accusations of and requests a casting token. We REALLY going to say 'no'? That's a pretext for being marched right there. Not to mention that a grog with a decent Legerdemain score can pick a pocket pretty easily.) Therefore, any magical defense we put up has a really good chance of being overridden.

Therefore, I feel that any defense we put up has to involve a healthy amount of misdirection, distraction, and/or confusion.

I'm done now. Talk amongst yourselves, I've blathered on enough.

Place a guard on post at all times. Two of them even.

I also established that the penetration on Apollodorus's wards against Guernicus were high enough to keep Valerian out.
Getting an entire covenant marched is a huge undertaking, and moving and for Hous Guernicus to move in such a way would entail response against them from elsewhere. Keep in mind, I've pretty close to established that all of House Tremere is united and arrayed to respond to a Guernicus overt move. Secondly, I've pretty much decimated the established Guernicus presence in Normandy, and it is being rebuilt. They were horribly embarrassed at Tribunal, and the incompetence and rot at the core has set back some plans...

Picking someone's pocket (etc.) won't work. You have to be given a casting token together with intention by one of the Aegis-participating magi ("formally invited", according to the spell description).

That one I'd already assumed, and planned for. :smiling_imp:

So it looks like 10 grogs have been defined ( with stats and abilities) and 4 more have been named. So 28 more can be defined with abilities and stats and 24 more can be named. No need to get more grogs until 28 more are put on paper.

I haven't had as much of a chance to read all these, but how about these?

An item that turns it intangible and we sink it into a wall. Hiding it might be the best defense, and we could also try to make it into something of a different material, that way detection spells for writing shouldn't work.

An item that teleports it randomly if it's approached without another item. And in addition to this, something that detects the Parma and teleports it away even if you have the item. You'd have to figure that anyone invading Mons Electi for the book would never drop their parma.

Waiting spells, warding spells, set to go off when someone does detection spells in Apollodorus's chamber.

I am more than willing to allow PCs to reallocate their time, but it's best that options here be presented with specifics so players can identify if their characters are capable of undertaking the task, and in what time frame.
But, let me point out that you are making an assumption that the book is the goal for every character. It's not. There's a lot of research in his library about the corruption of House Guernicus, as well.

I'm guessing that a ward vs the curious Scullion would be there to stop normal people.

Yeah, and Tranquillina can basically ward against anyone with a corpus MR of 28 or less. She might have to break the circle if anyone with less MR needs to study it, but that's not a huge big deal to me...

Only think I could come up with last night/this morning (when I should have been sleeping) is to make the book look like something it's not. Maybe have the binding painted/decorated to look like the Holy Bible. But then JL mentioned that that one book might not be the only thing worth plundering.

So I'm thinking, maybe, a hidden storage space either in the floor or behind the bookcase in the wall or something. And have decoy books where the real books would be expected to be. Perhaps with Aesop's Fables written in code in ancient Greek or whatever it's called.

Like abject terror? The portal only works if you're in a blind panic? :laughing:

But, yeah, mental command would be better, if we want to be paranoid. That way, any spies can't hear the command trigger. And only full members would be given it.

Who the hell is Cumhachd???

For the record, if he's yet another magi who got invited "just because", Isen will rant about security and what happens when no one listen to him (not that I have the time to write this or else, it's just background rant).

Oh, really, no problem!!!

He's been pushing himself through the book in order to cast the more powerful Aegises we have at our disposition. If he's unable to do this, this is actually good for me, as, since he won't be able to do so, he'll have to turn to other pursuits (meaning I'll be able to have him do other things :smiley:)

Actually, I'd have seen this as a Re(Mu)Te spell, in order to move the stones while making the mortar leave them.
So... Base 1, +1 stone, +1 touch, +1 part, +0 mom, + 1 muto requisite = lvl 05 (mom duration since you don’t need to move them much, and you can cast this all day)

... Which may be actually easier, since it would use our Rego-Aligned Aura. Or course, that still means a Re(Mu)Te + Sta total of 15... Which, IIRC, is too low to read from the book without problems. So this may work.

I agree with JL, though, that the book should NOT be removed from Appolodorus sanctum.

Isen sees absolutely no problem with this :smiley:

In fact, if we suppose people study from this summa once they’ve exhausted the other and thus got a respectable Rego score (15+), this should be no problem for the magi of Mons Electi, especially as the Aura also adds to Parma. In fact, that’s probably the greatest problem with such a ward: It’d only keep out those with a Rego MR under 18. Not that you shouldn’t do it, of course :smiley:

Yes, but it takes time, and resources.

One solution that Isen already proposed (but he hadn’t had the time to develop the spell, especially all by himself. He can’t do all the magical security legwork alone!!) is a structure-sized variant of “The Shrouded Glen”, to hide a given room. Cast with Wizard’s Communion, this should help a lot, and would stop most magi. But that’s irrelevant for now.

The social part is a real problem (Isen, being quite paranoid, had a fit about how his sodales handed tokens left and right a few years ago. He let go in despair). Theft, OTOH, is useless: You need a token AND a formal invitation into the Aegis.

Simple and effective. One of them invisible.

Great ideas.

  • What would the first item be? You need a muto effect (to turn intangible) and a Rego effect (to move it out of the wall).
  • Teleport randomly means the book must be enchanted and incorporate AC to the locations it’s supposed to teleport to. It also means an intellego room effect to detect the item
  • The Parma bit is obvious, and great, although it would have to penetrate. Another effect that affects hostiles would be great. Like a call of slumber.
  • Rather than waiting spells, use items. They are cheaper.

What Arachné would do is a variant of her own sanctum defenses: A sealed room, hidden to the outside (like, under the floor of ME, so that no one can know it’s there). Another room, protected as much as we can, and in which one item casts each turn 3 forceless spells. The first, InMe, asks a question like “did you come here to steal from ME or hurts its habitants”. The second, ReMe, makes you surrender in the answer is yes. The last, ReCo, teleports you to the hidden chamber.
This can, of course, be made worse. Arachné has ideas.
Isen is not to her level of deviousness, yet.

Read "The Mistress Always Spanks Twice". Short version: Tranquillina's Tormenting Master and Stultus' mater and Beloved Rival.

That's a pretty terrific idea, though it would require a minimum of a year to realize. And it would defend against most attackers. Would be completely useless against Cumhachd, of course, since I'm 99% sure she sees her presence here as helping Mons Electi.

With friends like her, who needs enemas?

The only thing I have to say to The Fixer, is how long did it take you to post that message, given the state of things?!? :smiley:

As far as his question/your question, I can totally see Isen asking who the heck Cumhachd is! :laughing:

A lot of what's being proposed seems to be more about things that can be done in the future, than about things that have been done. Am I getting that sense? So, if I can get a bit of leeway, I'd like to continue on with the story, and then you can continue to evaluate things that you have done, and things that you will do in the future. Again, this isn't something that's punitive to the players. But I can also envision that the characters may have been complacent, since his sanctum was warded against Guernicus, and we'll even stipulate that Laetitia comes by every now and again to enter the sanctum, and fails...

Wait...what? grabs book, flips to Realm Interaction Table on p. 183, reads blurb under table Son of a... Why do I always forget that?

If he's anything like me, he wrote it all out in his word processor, and cut&paste it in during one of the more stable moments. (Why does that sound so Whovian?)

The aura adds 5 to magic resistance. That being said, it's also added to the casting total, so it's moot. Except... Rego spells cast in the aura get a bonus of +10, it is an addition to the CS, but it is not an addition to the MR.

Even still, it probably took an hour to post it...

I will play Tom Redshirt :smiley:

Well, she'd still be stealing.

And that's only the first part of the 2 security mesures Arachné would like to do. The second one, I'll keep to myself :smiling_imp: With her, I've thought quite a bit about defending against magical intruders.

I cheated.
I did it all by hand first, and then posted.
Yet, between work, I spend about 2 hours on this T-T

As I see it, the only implemented security mesures I see are:

  • 2 guards
  • The Re(Mu)Te spell above, with the 2 alcoves, as well as "decoys" books.

Are you sure? I thought the Rego-Aligned Aura added just as much to MR against Rego effect, but, serf's parma and all that.

If he's short-lived, give me Cain Blackshirt

(Black Tom, and Juggy)