1260:OOC

Retired Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Oppidum of Héviz
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An answer for every single critique that has been offered. Many of them have been repeated. For example, this is the second time you've said that the game hasn't started and Eve is more than her stats. First, it has started with some prelude threads, and second there is also 30 years of what Eve did that can be written about, and 15 years of apprenticeship, and her master that are pretty important to the genesis of the character. Who were the Verditius who initiated her House mysteries, and why did they do that when she wasn't making stuff? Verditius will share their Mysteries with members of the House, but it's presumed that members of the House are also doing stuff with those Mysteries, which Eve most assuredly hadn't either before or after her initiations. There is huge story potential there, but it lies fallow, and untouched.

The idea that she's just a bunch of stats on a sheet is fine, to a point. As a player, I don't know who Eve is, though, and as a player telling you, another player, I don't understand your character and I don't know the character that's a problem. Again, any of us can come up with a story for that character, we've offered you suggestions even. It is up to you to create the backstory for your character as to why she's here. I offered a really good, historically grounded suggestion, which has been ignored. The suggestion was also perfectly tailored to her personality flaw of being Driven. Eve's optimism should easily allow Eve to accept any deal, whether it is mechanically suboptimal or not.

But, you need to pick one and do something with it. Give the troupe some meat on the bone that is your character's stat sheet.

The way I view this, is that you, the player isn't interested in playing if Eve doesn't get what you, the player, thinks she deserves. Eve's optimism flaw suggests something contrary to what I perceive your position to be. Who is we in this context? We is you, the player, and Eve the character? Again, I think you're pushing a player position to benefit your character. This is very similar to a discussion Arya and I had in another saga where her character was offering the ability to cast an Aegis 30 for membership in the covenant, with full voting privileges, whereas everyone else had given up their voting sigils to get that full seat. You think Eve is the best character ever, which is fine, she might feel that way. But as a player, you shouldn't expect Eve to receive advantages that the other characters don't get. Everyone has advantages and disadvantages to their character. IF you think is perfect, take Eve's grogs out for a spin and go after a creature of might. Someone could design a demonstration scenario for you. Anyone of us could have built a character like Eve, that's not really the point. And qcipher might have given me the benefit of the doubt, but he would have asked me questions about Eve, if I'd built her as you did. I would have tried to bring everything together with the story of her genesis.

Pick one or more and run with it. But, the Tribunal doesn't reserve the right to abuse you. They reserve the right to ask you to perform work. If you don't want to do that work, you can leave. There is no abuse.
The Tremere in 5th Edition are not like the Tremere in 3rd or 4th Edition or like Vampire: The Masquerade. They are a House of soldiers, with an esprit de corps. As I've said, they remind me, in many ways, of Heinlein's Mobile Infantry from Starship Troopers (not the movie).

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This is another point of disagreement I have. Under the paradigm I run under the abstract character creation seasons are just abstract seasons. Any number of things could happen in them. Including making of an item in exchange for study materials. So from my perspective it wasn't "Eve hasn't used these mysteries" it was "Eve hasn't used these mysteries on her own behalf". Yeah, its gonna look weird to the other Verdi if Eve doesn't have any enchanted items herself. I mentioned that in one of the posts in the Eve thread. The one with her parens.

All that said, I really don't want to spend seasons enchanting items I don't really want in order to fit some idea of what a Verdi should be. If its a huge sticking point I can morph Eve into a Boni. It will remove Eve being a terrible member of her House Cult, and it will also remove potential clashes Eve will have with the Tribunal. If you guys think that will make things better sure, lets do it! (Jebrick permitting).

"We" Jebrick and I in particular, but other players can totally have good ideas too. (Gnostic resurgence!) Eve has a minor optimism flaw, but that doesn't mean complete fool hardiness. If there is an army marching upon Eve's picnic spot she isn't going to go "Eh, I can totally ignore this." Nor will she 100% trust some she is dealing with who says "I don't want to include it in the contract, but I'll totally send good jobs your way!" She might think "I'll just go scatter that army if it gets in range, no need to cancel the picnic" or "Whatever if he's trustworthy I win, if not nothing too much is lost. Nothing wagered nothing gained". As opposed to a non-optimistic Eve who would think "I'm gonna cancel my picnic" or "Yeah, I'm going to need to see concrete payment."

No. Eve is good at what she does. According to the books very few people have similar abilities. Which means if the Tremere aren't going to give Eve a reasonable rate we need to have a reason that Eve would accept it. Or if we fail that handwave it and say "Conceit of the game." But I want to get that hammered out as soon as possible!

The only one I really can run with is the one revolving around Eve's backstory. But I can't see Eve annoying most tribunals without somehow acquiring a negative rep. Which I'll do if I don't get a positive answer from Jebrick on the fair wage, or gnostic stuff.

You keep saying that. If that's the case Eve should be able to get that interpretation written into her contract. Something like "Upon leaving the Tribunal and forfeiting residency status all tasks assigned as part of her duties to the Oppidum are discharged." If it isn't willing to do that it is reserving the right to abuse you. Now all Tribunals do that to some degree. Wizard Wars anyone?

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I keep saying that Eve must want to come to Transylvania. It must be something other than the Tremere want her to write books for them. They would put you in the library Oppidum if that were the case. Why does Eve not go to any other Tribunal where the residency restrictions would be far less onerous to her? Bottom line, you must either want to come here or are forced to. The Tremere are not paying Eve to write books for them. If that is the best you can do then fine. I'll stick her in another Oppidum and we can get on with the game. Just do not expect any adventures for her.

Lamech and i have discussed the optimism flaw which is why it is a minor one. Major Character flaws define the character. I'm surprised that Ophelia has optimism as a major flaw but we can talk about that later. Eve has a major Driven flaw. that should define her and her reactions.

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I don't mind talking about it now. I thought really hard about Overconfident. However, I'm playing Overconfident Major in another saga, so... When that character's plans fall apart, it's not his fault. Two apprentices got kidnapped? Well, that's on them Breandan thinks, they weren't as good as he is. When Ophelia's plans fall apart they are, but they were never meant to be, she learned something much more important in the process. So, her plan to stay in Thebes fell apart, and she's invited to Transylvania. Well, there must be a reason for it," she thinks, "I'm sure it will turn out fine." And indeed, it has. She's getting a Latin tutor for her and her men. She's in charge of security for an oppida. "See, Ophelia? Everything works out in the end. You learn the lessons you need when you need them."

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10 minutes into mowing the lawn and this is what I came up with. Eve as the reluctant writer. Eve is great at writing books and that is all anyone wants her to do. She would like to get further into this great cult she read about but everyone is always coming to her for more books. Everyone bugs her for books so much she is not able to keep up on her enchanted items she should be making for House prestige. It would be fine if it were just normal magi asking for books but Heads of Houses and archmagus come calling and they have the power and political will to not take no for an answer.

I had though of an entire background where Eve got popular in Thebes and was invited to Duremar to ...write books. That is where she learned about the Philo of Rome. She wants to learn more but they want more books. when she falls behind on producing books she finds her Library privileges revoked. So she goes to Magusvilla. They have a good library and it is nearer to Rome. But the same thing happened there and she ended up having to flee as she felt they would have used their power to keep her in servitude. She fees from one Tribunal to the next but always she is pursued by fans and people wanting books.

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THat is fine but I see her being played with more pessimism and caution than a major flaw of optimism.

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That's... actually pretty good. I don't want her to be a completely non-writer, but she certainly doesn't want to spend her whole life writing books. Combine that with not only making items to fund her studies... if House Tremere is willing to not be a jerk about writing books constantly she would have both a reason pulling her here, and a reason pushing her out of other places. Bam! Gonna write stuff up.

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A pessimistic person would think that everything she does is going to be for naught or go wrong. Ophelia believes that she can tack on anything given enough preparation. And when things do go wrong, there is a reason. When one door closes another one opens. Now, she doesn't have to like the idea that she's in Transylvania, at first. And I am still finding Ophelia's voice. But I was going to do some internal dialogue at the conclusion of the prelude. The Optimistic part of herself was going to give a good talking to. Keep in mind, her prelude had her Determined (a personality trait) to stay in Thebes, where she'd lived all her life. She's spent several of the last few years trying to eek out a living. Even an optimist will give way to realism now and again.
I mean she was demonstrated to be lying when she submitted to Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie, nearly avoided being convicted of killing a magus, because of a large voting bloc didn't vote to convict her for politics, but her trustworthiness and honor within the tribunal have been stained, and even after that she spent another 3+ years there trying to eek out a living. Her optimism did that. Only the intervention of her pater and the Tremere changed her course... Her opening story was her darkest hour, if you will.

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The point is she can write books but that is not what she is driven ( major) to do. Writing books just takes time from pursuing the goals of immortality. Transylvania offers a bit of protection. Perhaps she will have to write some books for the Tremere but it is unlikely that they are going to allow others to come in and bug her. Epically if she comes in as a Foederati. A Hospites might require her to write books. A Foederati has more leeway into what they want to do.

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Which is why its the perfect fit!

Added more stuff to Eve's bio in the wiki page.

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Bunch of random questions, I want to get the answers hammered down before they pop up in game. Or at least get people thinking about them before they pop up.

Sona was intended to be able to use the "grant puissance in (ability)" power with her focus power. First thing is it appears to allow the faerie to invest multiple points and stack the bonus. However, reading that allows for quite large bonuses, especially if you use the "focus on one total on one person". Which for some things might not seem to bad. Soak, huzzah now a character is pretty though! Still nothing compared to a BoAF. But a +15 to say... an advancement total? Or to a craft roll (well a craft roll to ad? Now things start getting out of hand. So a few ideas:

  1. The +3 to a total/ability is right out.
  2. Just don't be a jerk with it.
  3. No change. Its not like a faerie would ever use the chance to use its power on you to do something malicious. Right?

How much are we using from city and guild? One of the Grogs can make superior items and Jane and Eve can make extraordinary items. We can never have too many +1 bonuses.

We using those fancy experimental philosophies in A&A? Of course we would need a lab, but some of the stuff they can make is pretty cool! Plus all those fancy rules for disease killing us all.

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What is sona and where is it hiding?

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Sona, The white witch? My companion? Ohh, we should probably add those to the wiki.

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If her entire personality is to make everyone better by granting them vitues then I will not allow the companion.

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Not at all. That is the purpose of her focus power. (Well not strictly virtues) Lets her fulfill the role of witch who makes love charms or whatever. I can change it too something else though if you want.

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I'm must be missing how grant puissance in (ability) power is used just for love potions and charms. why not make a real folk witch that can do these things. Not someone who can grant puissance in Magic theory or parma magica. Seems far too abusive and just another munchkin power play.

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With a lie. You hand the person a "charm" or a "potion", and hit them with the appropriate power. The charm is meaningless, but that doesn't matter to a Faerie. I could make her one of the hedge traditions. Hmm... the thing with a folk witch is we would need to ask why would the Hermetic Magi let her chew up vis for potions? Maybe a "cunning folk", mentioned with the learned magicians? But learned magicians can run into similar issues of being poorly balanced. Still witchy though. Of course a hedge tradition wouldn't be at all fae. Or I could build her with the Faerie wizardry abilities...

Thoughts on which option? Part of the reason I chose faerie was to have a tie in with the near by fae.

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The Order might not mind (as much) about a relatively weak Hedge Tradition, that can pull off an effect or two that is impossible or difficult for them, even if it costs a bit of vis. It all depends on what can be negotiated. In other Tribunals it might go on a Covenant by Covenant basis, there's even a Hook for it I believe. In Trans, there'd probably need to be a deal in mind with all of the Tribunal or nothing.

There's already though the Storm wizards and the Fectores for Hedge wizards in Trans. For a blessing/cursing witch, you might check the Gruagachun traditon and make some translations for it to Trans.

Faerie Doctor could also be a good fit and keep both the witch and faerie aspect, though i can't recall their abilities too well.

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Faerie Wizardry has a pretty cool array of powers, but its all dependent on the sympathy traits which can make it a bit annoying to build.
A tradition transplant using Gruagach could work. Different fluff, same mechanics.
Cunning-Folk: I would just build this as a straight companion using the virtues from the Learned Magician section of Hedge Magic and the alterations for their magic listed under the cunning folk section. It would be sufficiently witchy, and they deal with the fae for local folks. That would get the Faerie and the Witchy parts in.
Folk Witch: With a good build she could probably have a few abilities that hermetic magi lack. Charged healing items, energy recovery, and so forth. So I suppose they would waste vis on her. Oh and she can extract vis. The problem with a folk witch is they would be very much a lab rat. (Kitchen Rat?)
Can't really think of anything else that could have a witchy feel, and be made as a standard companion. I suppose I could invent a Divine Tradition with one, or use one of the Infernal traditions. But I don't want to do that.

The benefits of an actual hedge magician being around (from the Tremere perspective) is they can get insights from her. A lot if she's making items.

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I want an interesting CHARACTER not an interesting set of powers.

And yes, I'm in a foul mood over some work stuff and I apologize but I will not allow a companion who can hand out puissance in (ability).