2.0 Covenant Design Thread

Where are these new point allocations?

I like it when you guys come up with details. If you're having fun, keep at it. If your brain is straining, don't stress it.

I'm going to consider the Vis Source descriptions as suggestions, since that'll help throw a loop at you if we decide to. But you've proven yourself creative, so I really appreciate the suggestions you're giving as stock for the pot, even if the soup ends up tasting different.

Since you said you originally spent points on the Rook of Vim Vis to explain the huge stockpile of it, and then the stockpile was re-allocated elsewhere, I'm currently planning to do something funky with the Vim Vis. If you want to take points from there, though, go ahead.

Ah! I didn't catch the Martin reference. I like your backstory for him better than the one I came up with. I'm off to add it to the wiki!

I was rude and editted the original post. Here's the update -

Vis Sources Total: 115 pts
15 Creo 3 pawns, Spring - About 30 miles east of the covenant lies a rock quarry infested with Giant Spiders. The spiders spin webs and create trapdoors large enough to trap small animals - dogs, cats, moles, ferrets, etc. Humans are too big to actually get stuck in the web, although it is very sticky and annoying, and the spiders themselves are something to worry about - their venomous bite can still paralyze. Although eggs are laid throughout the year, in Spring all of the spiders gather and spin one giant web between two stone tower outcroppings and lay their eggs together. If you disturb the strands of any egg sacs, all of the spiders are alerted and come arunning. However, if you can reach the egg sac laid in the center (by the largest and Matron Mother of the spiders - the gathering of all spiders is the only way to build a web large enough and strong enough to support her egg sac) and detach it, the egg sac will contain enough Creo vis to fit into 3 pawns. On rare occasions, the central egg sac is already harvested. The founding members never found who was coming in and taking it.

15 Perdo 3 pawns, Winter - During the Festival of Sacrifice (Eid ul-Adha) on the 10th day of the 12th month of the Islamic calendar, several animals are slaughtered and the meat distributed amongst many - the covenant is known to invite other townships to partake or even to ship the food to close areas in need. Piotr Byrlaesh helped set up a magnificent slaughter stone platform with a firepit in the middle, blood grooves and head holes to assist in draining, and finely crafted blades inset into special areas on the table that conform with Dhabihah. The day is accompanied by a feast and festival around or in relation to the stone platform. In actuality, the slaughter meets with Islamic traditions but Piotr secretly added into the festival the practices of the Cult of Mithra from Old Rome. The Cult of Mithra acts to purify and cleanse the blood drained from the animals, and actually collected in areas beneath the stone platform. The firepit in the middle and the festival dancing lay the foundation for the blood to be boiled off, leaving behind blood dust and, surprisingly, 3 red crystals containing Perdo vis.

5 Rego 1 pawns, Fall Every year, ants invade a little village 10 miles south of Phoenix called Davim's Rest. They do not bite the humans but they infest every food larder unsecured or tightly sealed, especially the grain and flour. If bored (and extremely forgiving enough not to immediately step/smash them), you can even watch and see mass lines of ants lining up and doing battle with weevils protecting their hoard of grain and food. Showing higher intelligence in tactics and strategy than ever witnessed in other insects, Salamandrus once made an effort to collect as many ants as possible into a jar. After collecting five hundred ants and tracing the line of ants back to the Queen (and harvesting her too), Salamandrus was shocked to find he could extract their essence collectively as a pawn of Rego vis. He also learned, the following year, when he tried to collect even more by magically killing and gathering ALL of the ants, that dead ants provide nothing, and the formation of the vis required the presence and essence of a live Queen. It is possible to kill the colony outright, which the town has asked several times, and also tried by tracing the ants home, but have so far been unsuccessful.

10 Aquam 2 pawns, Spring - Every spring the torrential rains and snow melts from upriver raise the level of the Guadiana. Flotsam and trash are always washed down from further upstream to get caught around the rocks and bends when the river narrows again (several miles downstream), forming a dam and barrier. Every year, the covenfolk troop downriver to wade out into the rocks and waters to knock loose this trash since the increased water level begins waterlogging the soil and damaging the natural irrigation setup Old Man Mustafa(the old vineyard manager) had in place. The rocks themselves are slime-covered and in no way secure so it is easy to slip amongst them. Mixed within the trash is always several chunks of ice washed into the river from the mountain and still melting. The ice is almost supernaturally sharp and always submerged, which makes the task doubly difficult as it is easy to step on and accidently slice a foot artery, or fallen upon after slipping on a rock. In the past, people have been maimed or died after being sliced by these ice caltrops. The covenfolk prefer to wait until mid-spring near the point when the river is barely spilling over its bank, the water has warmed, the ice has all melted, and already washed downstream. However, the magi would like the covenfolk to clear the stream earlier and collect the ice chunks. Although most of the ice is dirty, misshapen, and pointed, there are always two perfectly formed tetrahedronal ice crystals pyramids that fit in a small child's two arms which are actually Aquam vis. On rare occasions these ice crystals wash down early and are nowhere to be found.

10 Corpus 2 pawns, WinterSomewhere out in the wilds is a graveyard within a magical aura or regio. Perhaps its a mass, unmarked grave. Christians say it is full of dead Muslims screaming so loud from the fiery hells that even their bones moan. Muslims believe it is Christians finding their just punishment from Mohammed for not believing his words. Jews believe it is their long-lost cousins and families of the missing 10 Tribes. Either way, every winter, a stray dog wanders into town with a femur bone in his mouth that constantly moans. If fed with meat, the dog will lay the bone between his front paws, eat 90% of the meal, lays the moaning bone with the remaining food, and wanders back into the forest. The bone and food immediately catches on fire but does not burn. The fire casts light for three days and nights, and does not burn anyone who steps through it. On the morning of the fourth day, the food finally catches on fire and burns to ash at the moment the sun stops touching the horizon. The bone also stops moaning. The ash is gathered and scattered into the fields immediately, and that year's spring crop is twice as bountiful as normal. If the dog is ignored or killed, or if the fiery food is disturbed before the three days and nights are up, some misfortune befalls the village. One suffered a horde of locusts that destroyed the crop. One group fell to plague and disease - it was later determined their water source was fouled. No other village has been willing to send the dog away since. The bone is worth 2 pawns of Corpus Vis, and is very obviously a human's thigh bone. The magic fades by the time the sun sets on the fourth day. It's been thought that collecting the bone earlier in the process while it's still moaning would produce a greater amount of Vis, but no village has allowed it to be touched prior to the completion of the fire, and the magi have thus far been reluctant to wipe out a rampaging village mob just to find out.
NOTE: A different village is visited every year, but it visits the same 8(once 10) villages. There is no order to the visits. They surround a forested hilly area - in the center of the area is an area with a hundred barrows. One is sure to be the grave site, but impossible to tell without digging up all of the hills. For all one knows, maybe ALL of the hills are filled with the dead. The dog has never been successfully followed.

5 Herbam 1 pawns, Fall In the forests north of the Covenant lay a grand expanse of forest. These forests might be claimed by some noble or king somewhere - it's hard to tell who might hold the Patent after so many years of the Land changing hands. They do NOT belong to the Covenant, although no one's noticed the random tree or two. Within lives a family of magical woodpeckers, whose knocks as they bore their holes and dig for insects can be heard from miles around while IN the forest, although once you step out the sound is silenced. The forest has a reputation for being haunted due to all of the noises and knocks heard after walking within its edges. If you can find the woodpecker's nest, built out of twigs and straw from the trees around, it turns out to be a pawn of Herbam vis. However, the nest itself is fairly difficult to find. Normally, you can find a woodpecker by orientating on the knocking it makes and tracing it back, but the entire forest reverberates with this birds' knocking. The woodpecker is extremely fastidious and will build a new nest every year - old decaying nests have been found littered throughout the forest, but they are devoid of anything special.

5 Terram 1 pawns, Summer In the same rock quarry with the Giant Spiders, an underground spring feeds into a very very small pool of water alongside one of the cliffs. This spring only fills in summer with the most crystal clear, very cold water. Everyday it brightly reflects the sun and evaporates halfway, and then rises again during the chill of the night. During the summer solstice, while the sun is at its zenith, the pool becomes as reflective as a mirror until the sun goes down, and people claim to see visions in the water. One man swore he saw himself old and surrounded by grandchildren, and lived to be 90 (very VERY old and ancient in the medieval paradigm). Another pregnant woman left confused, stating she didn't even see a reflection of herself, but kept hearing a baby crying. She died giving birth to her son a month later. If a magus comes before the water has lost its reflective edge, he/she can sift through the smooth pebbles alongside the pool (worn down by the constant rising/refilling of cold water) and find one perfectly spherical orb of Terram quartz.

50 Vim 1 rook, Fall - can be smashed/broken in a specific pattern into 10 Vim pawns but requires a Dexterity+Finesse roll of +9. It can be transferred magically into new vessels normally. This sources is listed in the Covenant resources, but no details or manner of collection is given. If Jamie is asked, he states Cersei used to bring back a crescent stone mini-obelisk liberally covered in oil. It would have to be repeatedly dipped in oil or other lubricant and kept unexposed from air until the magi were ready to smash it or transfer the vis. He has no idea where she got it. There may be more details in her room or journal, but he is very reluctant to go rooting through her stuff or to let anyone else do so, for that matter. (He has already given up on the idea of keeping her lab pristine.)

Specialists Total: 30 pts
30 Points to be divided amongst 3 specialists
17 -(+2Com +7Teach +8Single Weapon) Weaponsmaster - Teacher. Abdul Fati bin Saladin, Captain, a Malmut that won acclaim and victory - but lost his left arm - in Saladin's Conquest of Jerusalem in 1189 - purchased and retired to Phoenix to train/teach shield grogs and turbs. Usually taught two students at a time. He has been called out of retirement after the death of most/all of his students at the Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa.
6 - (6 Animal Handling) Veterinarian/Animal Doctor. Farihah al-Kasim, a wandering goat-herd widow that settled in the hills north of the Phoenix Covenant. After helping deliver a breech birth cow on one of her visiting trade trips, she has moved close enough to run to the protection of the Covenant when needed, in return for assisting in any special care of the animals at the Covenant. She also helps supervise the slaughter of animals to make sure they are healthy and follow the rules of Dhabihah.
7 - (7 Profession: Blacksmith) Large (maybe Giant-blooded) Blacksmith. Noland (Naomi) Sepharad, a Jewish friend of Abdul Fati that accompanied him to Phoenix. Once a producer of swords and armor, he now happily produces nails, plows, nails, barrel rings, nails, hinges, nails, pots, pans, and nails. Okay, so he might not be so happy about the nails. Largely isolated for being an Outsider amongst Muslims, the few possible liaison attempts by daughters and widows were politely rebuffed. He seems to have no interest in females. Noland did not accompany the forces to Las Navas de Tolosa due to an illness and fever from exhaustion after staying up for five days helping prepare for the expedition. A moon later, when she was ready, it was too late.

65 Summae + 40 Tractactii + 115 Vis Sources + 30 Specialists = 250 build points. Keep the Vim Vis as a surprise and something to play with. :smiley:

I didn't keep records of who contributed what to my unified listing, and you say you've edited the original post. Can you itemize your changes for me?

Nice color on the specialists, btw.

My only issue with the Vis Source descriptions is that two are located right in the covenant. They should be fairly scattered. IIRC, the covenant automatically claims any vis source within a 20 mile radius of their base.

Nevermind, figured it out with quoted material.

Vis sources changed and updated! The only one really still "in" the Covenant is the Perdo. Some in the surrounding area, and a couple deliberately outside of the legally claimed area/under neutral territory. :slight_smile: And, as always, like the Pirate's Code - these descriptions are more "suggestions" than actual guidelines. Now to work on what the character is actually bringing with him!

Amul, I made a clerical error on my "updated" listing of Vis that got copied over to your finalized copy. 15 pts still spent on Perdo, but I wrote 2 instead of 3. Editted and corrected on my post, just need to edit on your finalized covenant thread.

Got it, and added these to the wiki.

Doesn't communication counts?

Anyway, that's only 3 points, let's consider them lost if I'm wrong and that's all.

Yup :laughing:
So long as I don't get to be vegetable lad :laughing:

I had to go for CrIg because of the Light :-/
It can be done through pure CrIm (base 2, lowering the item by 3 magnitudes), but won't shed any light (and will be invisible, if not unheard) in shadow.

I like the Alarm bell, but I'm absolutely not sure this wouldn't cause any mechanical effect, just like Flash of the Scarlet Flames, using only the lvl 5 guideline "Create light as bright as direct sunlight on a clear day" can blind someone. Similarly, such a bell could deafen someone, as it creates a sound 100 times the voice volume of a normal man. And since there's no range, this'd primarily affect the grog using it :-/

Simple. Give it to Bernardo. But it's too bad Ars doesn't have the Champions "area-effect-with-a-hole-in-the-middle" thing. Yet.

Since I've loved what you guys have been doing with the history so far, I've decided that there were 3 other Phoenix Magi who died at Las Navas de Tolosa. This has no effect on the number of labs that are available, or other point expenditures. Possibly, they were Companions instead of Magi. Or the apprentices of the founders.

Mostly, I just felt like it was weird that they only had the same 4 magi in one covenant for 50 years. Seems very un-OoH, if PCs are any measure.

Also, I could have sworn there was a note somewhere in one of the books on the rough size of villages and cities, but I can't find it. I'm trying to figure out how big the covenant population(s?) were/are. Which gets me into all my old questions about the relationship between the covenant and the industry which generates its income.

We have a ton of new citizens showing up along with the magi. In order to determine the impact that'll have on the community, we'll need to figure out how many people are left alive (and, then, I guess, how many are ghosts and grapevines).

Minor Covenant Boon: Chartered Town , Insert page 11 , City & Guild.
Wish i had noticed this sooner.
Populace is listed on page 23.

That boon does sound like a good idea for Phoenix. I suggest swapping it for either one of the Healthy Features (you have 3), the Strong Community or the Vis Grant.

The page you're referencing is not the one I'm looking for. The section only outlines that a city is around 2000 people. There is a paragraph or table somewhere that says how many people are in a "small village" versus "large village" versus "town."

Completely forgot about Viscaria's actual goals and dreams. Made some tweaks to her list. Stuff in red is the old numbers. Blue are the new, and the explanation.

I'm not finding the bit Ravenscroft says lists populations in Cities & Guilds, but I was thinking the mundane population was a few dozen (not more than a hundred or so). For comparison, the two nearest municipalities (Castilblanco and Helechoso de los Montes, both within 10 km) have current populations of 1,146 and 775 respectively.

My copy of the Chivalry & Sorcery Game Master's Handbook (for 3rd edition) shows a population per square mile of 12.5 for "Hilly Wooded" and 16.67 for "Hilly Lt. Wooded", taking into account how much of each land type is actually settled (with Settled/Unsettled land ratios of 1:7 and 1:8).

fwiw

You're suggesting roughly 100 living humans, including dependants, for the vineyards, the town, and the covenant, before the magi took all able-bodied males off to Las Navas de Tolosa? How many are left now?

And were your population states for Castilblanco and Helechoso de los Montes current as in 2011?

I'm guessing probably between 50 and 75 (closer to the latter), if you figure that only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the people would be males of fighting age. Again, these numbers are just off top of my head, with no thought or research behind them.

Yes, sorry, I meant irl current, not in-game current. The Wiki article for Castilblanco had that figure from the 2005 census, I'm assuming the figure for Helechosa is also.

Looking at Helechosa's website, it says that in 1530 (if I'm reading right), it only had 196 people (but noted that the region was sparsely populated due to the expulsion of the Moors and emigration to the new world. Castilblanco's website doesn't show any old population figures, but does mention (oh, crap) that it was one of the Templar enclaves of Extremadura.

So. tl;dr: Looks like the region was pretty sparsely populated in the game's timeframe.

We're BRINGING up to 60 people to this covenant, right? So we're talking about doubling the population without increasing the number of servants or farmers?

I realize that we just killed off all the able-bodied men, and the area is war torn, but....that feels off. Plus, I have a hard time believing a population of 75 could generate a Great amount of wealth.

Whee! Templar Enclaves within 10 km! Mysterious forces which draw the dead to Phoenix! Demonic forces at play! And I was worried there wasn't enough Dominion Realm stuff for my plot line....

A google search for Extremadura turns up something that is probably not what I am looking for.

Umm... I just realized something important. Do we not have a manager? A custos Manager who acts as Head Butler for the covenant - the guy in charge of scheduling the maids, organizing supplies - ya know, the guy that makes sure everything runs smoothly so the Magi can spend their times buttoned up in their labs.

If he got sent off to Las Navas with everyone else, whoever stayed behind to take care of Jamie Lannister's needs and daily concerns should have/would have stepped up into that role...

Do we have a Covenant Charter?
The one where we swear to serve loyally and swear an Oath by Hermes Trismegistus?

Ask in character. :wink: