2.4 - OOC

You should see my website's url.

I've been watching a friend play some computer game or other, and am feeling a little enamoured of the hidden of hidden caches of XP, granted whenever you successfully navigate a particular conversation tree.

Does anyone see any reason why I can't hand out 1-3 XP of various Lore knowledge as rewards, as if they're little caches of XP in a first person shooter?

So Terrence is aware of Adjoran, but is he aware of when Adjoran is present, or has he been around Cygna enough to know when he puts in an appearance?

Adorjan's existence is handled through the Delusional flaw on Cygna's character sheet. In mechanical terms, he does not actually exist except as a figment of Cygna's persecution complex. Cygna has been public about his existence, has sought help from her Mentem-specialist mater (to no avail) and has felt perfectly comfortable responding the the dark-hearted shadow in front of Terrance.

Terrance has never seen any indication of the existence of Adorjan, except through Cygna's reactions to his words and actions. He can tell where she thinks he's standing by her body language, etc.

Amul, thanks for that.

On character creation, is the Story Flaw counts as minor flaw still in effect? I've seen contradictory evidence that this may or may not be the case. I know there's been a transition to new ASG's and the type of story being told. If story flaws do count as minor, is more than one story flaw allowed, and also have more than 5 minor flaws, too?

Also, could anyone give me a bit of a timeline breakdown, I'm having trouble following Cygna around the covenant. I think I'm following things and then I see someone in two places at once.
Getting some of these questions answered, and fleshing out the people coming with me, I should be create a character thread and be ready.

First day of spring, 1313 (Wednesday March 13), Cygna, Hiems, Amos, and Serrano show up at Phoenix. (Viscaria, I believe, had already been there for a short while, but I'm not sure how long.) The newcomers meet Jaime Lannister, the last surviving magus of the Covenant of the Phoenix, and each other. When the newcomers all go to the library to read and sign the Charter, Serrano blows up over something he thinks he read in the charter, rebuffs any attempts to find out what was wrong or to remedy the situation, and storms out in a huff.

That evening, all the remaining magi meet for dinner and their first Council Meeting.

The next morning, Cygna, Amos, and Viscaria scout out possible sanctum/laboratory locations, starting with Cersei's (as it was she who had gathered the vis from the Vintners and had done Cijara's marvelous and world-famous wine, and it's believed that clues, or better yet, notes, on how she had done what would be found there).

Hiems spends all day Thursday in the remains of Salamandrus's tower, which he has claimed as his own, basically clearing it out, exploring, brooding, et cetera. Friday morning, Viscaria comes over to help him out, as she has Terram-Fu and Architecture-Fu.

Thursday afternoon is when Cygna goes to talk to Marguerite about gathering their Vis, as she has volunteered to take that duty. That is also (later in the day) when she went to the kitchen to try to make arrangements to use the oven and bake some tarts for the meeting that Jaime had called for Friday.

Friday morning, Cygna went back to the kitchen.

Friday afternoon, the merchant Abdul al-Faisal arrived at the covenant, as he does once a quarter.

And that's just the magi. That's not even including the covenant staff's ongoing(?) efforts to drive the new "masters" away, the head maid's reverse-coup slash abdication, the sergeant of the turb's trying to get something that he can at least pretend is a covenant defence force...

But yeah...I've got Cygna doing stuff on three different days at the same time, it looks like? Wow. I must be out of my head :laughing:

Edited by amul: Added a link.

I think the "all Story Flaws are Minor" was a house-rule that JeanMichelle had set in place for the original version of the saga. I'm pretty sure we're using the standard RaW regarding how many of what kind for what value as far as Flaws are concerned...at least I hope so, as Cygna's Story Flaw is Major. which reminds me...I really need to get back to writing that thing which details that.

Oh, right. That's going to be a bit confusing to figure out. All of our PCs were created with JM's system, and then ported into the new saga. I'm going to have to take that question to the other players, since I don't know what each of us did when tweaking the characters. Viscaria kept the minor story flaw.

Guys, how have we been handling that?

My off-the-cuff and non-final (pending input from the table) ruling is that you should use the standard rules set, but work with me to integrate your story flaws into the existing campaign setting.

Maybe we should put up a summation page on the wiki, with links to what each chapter sub-header is? Or should we do that here on the forum? Unfortunately, I still can't seem to make anything sticky.

Well mine is the Dependen flaw. I ultimately played it safe, and picked three dependents, a family. Wife and two daughters 10 and 7. So, with a bit of license it is a 3 point story flaw or 3 1 point story flaws... And I'm not planning to count them in the 9, since the flaw effectively makes them necessary...
Ultimately I'm envisioning the younger one being gifted (I doubt I'd be her parens, given the fact that I have 8 arts below 5) and the older one could be as well, but may come into it later in life as I did. Creates interesting story possibilites if the younger one has her gift manifest first and the older one is jealous of the extra benefits she sees her getting (always ignoring the work that is necessary). And then the younger one becomes jealous when the older one's gift manifests and the father gets to be her parens.
Even if I drop it to a 1 point flaw, I'd keep it the same, and pick anothre major flaw and drop another minor flaw to get me to 10. Some of the choices have been painful, since I noticed that HR thread.

Your dependents definitely count as part of the 9. The traveling companion limit was set up to define the maximum size of any potential faction which could influence the covenant and its income-generating community. Considering that most games, a magus shows up with nothing but maybe a grog and a talisman, I feel like this is already very generous.

I understand the frustration with the Story Flaw system, I had the same issues when generating my character, which is why I'm tempted to repeal it, but I need to make sure I'm consistent and fair-handed about that choice.

I like the idea about having the first one manifest first, especially since they'd have The Gift, which would make them dislike each already.

Aren't I paying for dependents twice, then? I could just drop the flaw entirely and go along with another story flaw, then say I had 3 family members and 6 others in the party. I had fully anticipated the potential for creating friction by having 12 people with me.
If my argument of paying twice isn't convincing, I'll make them part of the 9 and drop the Dependents flaw and take another one.

Edit: How about a bargain, Dependent brings 1 extra with me for a total of 10, the other two must be part of the 9? Consider that the flaw is supposed to be a weak NPC. Since I was planning to develop the daughters it's perfectly fair to count them. Since I wasn't really planning to develop the mother other than giving her a Longevity Ritual, and she'll not be played by me or anyone...

No, you're not paying for it twice, because in some other campaign, you wouldn't be bringing anyone with you that wasn't explicitly granted by VFs.

I am uncertain why you are pressing this point, since you've only mentioned a these three retinue members so far.

So, here's the secret to playing with me as SG: story is king. This is why I said we needed above-average writers, and why I'm particularly excited to have you and Arya joining the campaign. If you have a compelling story for any rule-bending, I'm much more likely to consider it. I'm not saying you can't bring the party of 12 that you've mentioned, but I have to see the retinue as a whole, and consider how to integrate them into the story, before I'm willing to say yes. If you try to argue on a point-by-point basis, my previous gaming experience tells me that I'm likely to get snippy about the whole thing, and the most likely outcome is that you and I are going to chaff under the friction that causes, and you'll end up leaving the saga.

To be clear (since I am under deadlines right now and thus prone to sounding snippy over text-based mediums), that's not meant to be a threat, it's meant to be an explanation of how best to minimize friction with me.

Tell me the whole concept, and I'll work with you to create something that is balanced with all the other details that haven't been revealed to the PCs yet. Remember, I've seen you play elsewhere on the forums, and like the way you work.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. :smiley:
I'm fine with 9 being the absolute limit, I had to try for more, and it makes sense from a balance perspective. It'll open up a better story flaw for me, in any event, and in the long-run it will make his wife a bit stronger of a character.
I'll wait for a consensus from the troupe as to whether Story Flaws can be major, in the RAW, though.

Well, seeing as how I already have a Major Story Flaw, I vote "aye."

I am under the same impression.
No more than 5 minor flaws, max 1 story flaw (which can be minor OR major) that's all.

Peregrine's recap before is quite amazing and, IMO, should be ported to the wiki and developed as a subform of the XP log, with more detailled info than it.

Well, the dependant flaw means that someone you love is gonna get into trouble, so you have to go out of the lab to help her.
The fact that it's your wife and/or daughter changes very little (it's cosmetic) in that respect: Whether you're being forced to rescue 1 person, another, or a dozen, what matters is that your story flaw drags you out.

The fact that you should consider is this: Dependant doesn't mean you care more about your family. It means you want to tell stories where they get into trouble and you've got to help them.
So IMO, if you're interested in this, take Dependant (family). If you're not, don't take it :wink:

If I may?
I don't know you, so maybe you're one of those talented and creative writers that put me to great shame, but having 9 different, interesting and developped characters with you is already a challenge, so you shouldn't feel constrained at all by that limit, it is already pretty high IMO.

Check here: arm5phoenix.wetpaint.com/page/Th ... x+Covenant
As far as I can see, we've got:

  • 5 characters that came with Amos, only 2 being more developped that a few words. He also did Amos, making that 6/3
  • 3 characters that came with cygna, all developped.
  • 6 characters that came with Hiems, fully developped and stated. And I'm toast.
  • 4 characters that came with Viscaria, 1 of them stated.

So, you see? No trouble! :smiley:

Oh, you do?
Anyway, I see no problem either.
Since we're still at the beginning and allow them, I'm almost tempted to trade my "Hermetic Patron" for Envied Beauty, adding a little more manga touch to hiems, but, story-wise, the patron is probably more interesting, since it allows the SG to send hiems on any "mission".

The more bishonen, the better :laughing:

I don't have notes on your Patron, Fixer.

I agree! Though I'm still sad that we lost the harem angle.

To be clear, they don't have to be fully stat'd character. They just have to have names, positions, and relevance. And besides, I'm curious to know what the 12 were.

4 - Butcher, baker gardener and cook to ensure kosher meals.
2 - Doctor, rabbi (I missed the rabbit on the first read through of the wiki)
3 - majordomo (companion), custos, family attendant (asst to majordomo, to be at the family's service when the majordomo is out)
3 - Family: Wife & 2 daughters

Ostensibly, the rabbi could be dropped or could be junior to the existing rabbi. Two rabbis would be busy enough though...