A dagger that heals

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

If you make a dagger that you can't feel, PeIm.

I'm wonder if, once someone gets stabbed, does there have to be a secondary effect so the wound isn't felt?

Also, would bind wounds be good enough to seal the wound back up or would something more powerful be needed?

Basically creating a dagger for delayed assassination. Stab someone a few times and walk away. 2 minutes later the duration of the heal ends.

Side question, is ReHe teleportation of wood the same spell level as ReCo or is it less? Wondering what the base level to teleport an arrow 500 paces after it's been loosed.

2

Pain isn't HoH:S p.61 Species, so PeIm doesn't affect it.

So he knows still that he is wounded. But spells making the wound disappear for a time (say D: Diam) can be invented: see ArM5 p.130 box Creo Corpus Guidelines.

See TME p.107 box New Guidelines for Instant Teleportation plus errata: the base for Herbam is two magnitudes lower than for Corpus.

Cheers

3

Thank you

4

You could also have the dagger with effects such as ReMe to induce a meditative state so the target zones out during the stabbing; PeMe to take away their ability to feel pain; MuCo to simulate Endurance of the Berserker so they ignore all wound penalties and pain for a time (or was it ReCo? Don't remember). Really, it's sometimes easier to just wound them from afar instead of stab them and escape... but this is WAY more interesting and fun, and doesn't require a mage past the enchanting process. :slight_smile:

5

It started with a character that wanted to do Neo Mercurial rites without making animals suffer and feel pleasant as they died.

I thought it would be an interesting story seed to have a dagger similar that is foating around and being used on occasion. Like it is used on sleeping targets a bunch so no one notices it, until someone like a bishop or prince falls down dead bleeding in broad daylight for no reason.

6

Something in the lines of mentem could work to make the attack forgotten. About pain and penalties, there are really a problem... unless there is no actual wound making the pain.

So I'd go with the following effects:

Forgotten Stab
PeMe 20
Anyone attacked with the dagger forgets that he was attacked with it. This leaves a blank spot on the memories of the victim.
Base 4, +1 Touch, +1 Diameter, +10 Unlimited uses

Gentle Assassin
CrMe 38
This effect is triggered by The Forgotten Stab effect and fills the memory of the victim with the memory of them talking to the attacker about trivial and boring stuff.
Base 5, +1 Touch, +3 Moon, +10 Unlimited uses, +3 Linked Trigger.

Delayed Death
CrCo 63
Any up to lethal wounds inflicted by the dagger are instantly closed while the dagger kept concentration. The dagger stops doing so when someone presses his lips over the blade and whispers in latin "dust to dust".
Base 35, +1 Touch, +1 Concentration, +5 Item maintains concentration, +10 Unlimited uses, +3 Linked Trigger.

I'm not sure about the linked triggers though... maybe they wouldn't be required at all, specially the one in Gentle Assassin, but adding it could make it fill the gap created by the first effect, making the effects cascade in the memory of the victim. The last one in Delayed Dead would be mainly to keep duration flexible, but maybe it's easier to make an instilled effect stop when desired by default. Anyhow the last effect have a quite big level. So the problem at the end is that it's quite more easy to enchant a dagger just to kill someone with one single effect: it can be done at any time.

Distant Stab through the Heart
PeCo 50
If the dagger stabs an arcane connection to the victim (it could be a puppet washed in the victim's blood, or covered with a lock of his hair, or clothed with some of the victim's usual clothing), then a fatal wound the size of the dagger is opened right from the chest and through the heart of the victim.
Base 30, +4 Arcane.

Or you could lower it all by making the item being able to open an intangible tunnel to the victim, then maybe seal it while maintaining concentration until the desired time on the attack, and then use a level 35 version R: Touch of the above effect through the tunnel.

7

Pretty cool.

Looks like it's obtainable as a long term goal. I had worried it would be super easy with low level effects, and then more common.

With Gentle Assassin, I'm thinking victims remember having a conversation with a person described at the time of creation of the dagger. So every victim of that dagger will remember talking to the "same person", which won't be the person that stabbed them. I'm thinking that standing their trying to create unique memories would not be likely.

Also convenience for plot the description could then leave a trail... and the players can follow said trail to the dagger and the Manchurian assassin.

8

I think there is some cool stuff here.

Be careful about creating memories - doesn't work too well with Hermetic magic. It's better to create illusions so the memories are real, just of something that was incorrect.

This could be a fun way to set up a covenant. You assassinate someone heading to a covenant with the illusion of being a covenant member heading the other way or just invisibly. They continue along the way uninjured. Then they cross the Aegis of the Hearth boundary, which cancels the foreign spells, and they die. No one else is around, just the covenant members, and theoretically this could be after they get to an outer guard outpost if there is one outside the Aegis of the Hearth boundary. So now it looks like the covenant killed the person.

9

Still crunching numbers for that Dagger... Forgotten Stab would fill 2 vis pawns space, Gentle Assassin another 4, Delayed Death 7, which sums 13, and if you want to add the Distant Stab that requires another 5 vis slots, for a total of 18, so I guess that should go to another dagger.

Adding some penetration would be a requirement if it's supposed to deal with Bishops or Nobles who could haver relics of faith giving them MR... so maybe another 15 levels up for each effect to get them penetration +30, and they would then require 4, 6 and 8 pawns of vis each to enchant for a total of 18 pawns.

The problem then is that the dagger is small, so size multiplier x2, and a base material of iron would give just 10 opened pawns... it could be made of silver and have 12 slots, not high enough, or have a tiny semi-precious gem on the pommel, for a total of 22 pawns (and space for some Edge of the Razor or other useful effect). Which probably means a Verditius enchanter, because opening that item with a Magic Theory of 11 is quite crazy.

My first thought about the implanted memory was that people had their memories replaced with a scene of them mistreating a beggar (always the same one), which would bring a wrong suspect to the chase, and could be fun. Also it would be a pretty big clue on its own if the victim was very pious, think of a bishop known for his charity dropping dead and on his last words (or his questioned ghost) repenting and wanting to confess how he mistreated that beggar nobody saw around him, suddenly afraid of going to hell for that... I think the sigil of the enchanter would be pretty strong in that fake memory, so probably the clue tracking trail would lead from the victim (or victims) to the enchanter, and from there you could try to find people who owned the dagger until finding the killer.

Creating illusions would make the dagger more efficient at hiding clues, but it would also erase the clues to find the dagger enchanter. So I guess it could be used if players are quite used to deal with investigations, but the non perfectly matching Mentem effects could be useful for not so sherlock-holmish players.

The covenant set up idea is pretty nice.

10

Personally I would design the dagger with a sleep effect. So the person stabbed instantly falls a sleep. No muss no fuss. You can stab them multiple time if you really want to make sure they die or just once to incapacitate them. The only drawback would be the blood, but depending on where you stab them and how they are positioned you could mitigate that. =)

11

But it lacks the dead-man-walking-until-the-dagger-holder-says-so and then drop dead part...

Also to make sure you incapacitate or kill the victim the solution is not the mundane stabbing, subject of botches and exploding dice, but the straight PeCo spell.

12

Don't forget the all important "explodes in a fountain of blood in public".

A sadistic and crippled Verditius that makes a few items along these lines, because he himself cannot do the murders he invisions... when confronted finally, his hubris takes over and he goes mad "It was me hahah yes, it was me. I make blades that kill Archbishops and Kings, but you're too late my masterpiece is finished and on it's way to perform it's Opus!"

13

Instead of Forgotten Stab, one could use Muto Mentem to rewrite the Common Sense to interpret pain as a Smell while being stabbed. Though I think it's only a major change to make pain feel pleasant. Which would be a level 5 effect.

14

The thing I would find problematic is that normally in AM people die in combat because accumulated penalties make them susceptible to more wounding. If you heal the wounds then the penalties do not accrue.

15

Well the precursor to the healing would be the undetected stabbing. Will want to get that part of the dagger working first.

I don't know what surprise rules people use, but typically in games I play when unaware one doesn't get to defend. Full offensive bonus against no die roll, if they didn't perceive the attack is what I'm used to. Usually give 2 rolls, one to prevent being ambushed, another to prevent being defenceless. So in order to be subtle can't exert oneself.

The reason I am curious about wound penalties is so the victim doesn't detect it. MuMe can convert the pain to the smell of roses, a simpler effect would be convert Touch to smell on the victim. However they will become disoriented going numb for a second. PeIm can make the blade invisible or close. From there it's avoiding the quick movement of the shank, which can be done with Legerdemain (basic magic trick). Not with slight of hand with the dagger, but distracting the eye with the cloak.

If it comes to fighting, build combat advantage round to round, then kill. But probably just shank and run.

Characters that don't buy awareness make me excited like I'm waiting for Santa on Christmas Eve. I.e. I can't wait.

16

What about D:Held from HoH:MC, page 100?