A few questions about sahirs

Games Discussion Ars Magica
18

Thanks a ton, the meaning behind that description of the summoning naranj is quite clear now. :slight_smile:

If I happen to have anymore question regarding sahir I'll be sure to post them here. Alas, I want to seize the opportunity to congratulate you on a job well done. The Cradle and the Crescent is an awesome sourcebook, and I'm utterly in love with it. The sahir magic system is absolutely gorgeous as well, and fits the theme wonderfully IMHO. Please, pass along my most sincere congratulations to the rest of the team involded. :smiley:

19

A new question just poped to mind while explaining the seasonal summonings. In page 38 it specifies the amount of vis a sahir can extract from an aura in a season, which is quite in line with what an Hermetic magus can extract from a source of vis in a season.

Now, the key thing here is, an Hermetic magus has to have a source of vis, whereas a sahir only needs an aura, according to RAW from CatC page 38. Is that correct? A sahir doesn't need a source of vis to extract vis, he can just syphon it out of any aura, and that's it?

There's nothing in the official errata regarding this, but it feels a bit overpowered, so I just wanted to make sure. Thanks in advance. :slight_smile:

20

Err.... a hermetic magus extracts vis from an aura as well...

Xavi

21

This: It tends to degrade an aura if done too much, but it is otherwise awesome :smiley:

22

I know. I didn't properly phrase my question, as usual. I meant that an Hermetic magus needs to have a source of vis in order to not degrade an aura, whereas a sahir doesn't degrade it.

But you know what? I just re-read the rules for vis extraction on ArM5 p.94 and... nowhere does it say that the aura is degraded by the extraction. I honestly can't recall where I got this idea.

So please just disregard my question. I just had a major brain fart. :blush:

23

"Realms of Power: Magic", but it's not generally a problem unless you've got a lot of magi extracting lots of Vis frequently and I find the aura degradation tedious to calculate so I tend to just ignore it.

Also, Sahir have plenty of other ways to obtain Vis such as visiting Mazaran or travelling to the Magic Realm (Intellego and Warping) See "A Passage to Strange Lands"

24

I wasn't concerned about them not getting vis, but rather about the way they were extracting it. But I was absolutely mistaken, so my question is meaningless.

Thanks for the reference about degrading auras. At least I now know that didn't come out of the blue altogether. :slight_smile:

25

Since it's in RoP: M as mentioned above, it's a characteristic of aurae, not hermetics.
Sahirs should degrade aurae just as much as hermetics.

26

Makes perfect sense. My confusion was mostly because I (wrongly) remembered it being in the hermetic extraction rules, not the RoP:M book. Once again, my bad.

27

So... I have just taken the Cradle & the Crescent book since 4 days ago but i need understand if the only summoning art is Sihr or it could be any Summoning Art or Accelerated Ability instead, or could be any Solomonic Art? I mean if any Solomonic Art is possible to make one Summoning Spell or if whatever it says on the book summoning art that means only Sihr or Summoning art (fabulosa, elemental or goetic) or if it's possible use any Solomonic Art. Specially if Sihr only works on Jinns.
I know that it was discussed before but i didn't find that topic.

28

I'm not entirely sure what it is you're asking, but I'll try to help:

Yes, Sahir can use any of the Summoning arts described on page 31 in conjunction with the Solomonic Arts.

However, your character must be able to summon a spirit of some sort to utilize his Solomonic Arts which, by themselves, are quite useless...

29

Thanks, i was doubting about if in fact they could make summoning spells with any solomonic art or any Summoning Ability... I get that they need summon one spirit before to learn more or the Suhhar.

30

The summoning spells (naranj) are "made" with the summoning ability, not the Solomonic Arts. It helps a lot to remember that the summoning ability is not actually a Solomonic Art. So you could say sahirs work by summoning a spirit through whatever supernatural summoning ability they have access to, and then use their Solomonic Arts using the summoned spirit.

In the case of "normal" sahirs, the summoning supernatural ability is usually Sihr, which only works on Jinn. But as far as I know, there's nothing stopping them from having a different summoning ability other than Shir, that they use to summon the spirit that powers their Solomonic Arts.

31

Thanks, i doubled my doubt and on the other topic i got the same response, i get now. I can figure that one Virtue Greater Power or Ritual Power that was like one Summoning to Airy Spirits could grant the same, but with really poor summoning strength.

32

And... any summoning Art/Ability can be used to any summoning spell learned by a Sahir? I mean, with Astrology or Storytelling they can summon spirits that aren't Jinni and they can bind them or use on other ways after the season summoning.
Sorry the Threadomancy - and hi.

33

I'm afraid I'm not quite sure what it is you're asking, but will try to help...

Basically, yes. Any references to a 'Summoning Art' can apply to any of the abilities listed on page 31.

The only restriction is that your Summoning Art can only summon the type of creatures listed in its description so a character with (Faerie) Summoning, for example, wouldn't be able to summon Magic or Infernal jinn...

34

Sorry. I mean, that with Solomonic Storytelling + Area Lore Lab Total to seek or to scour one spirit, or inventing one summoning spell with one known True Name (or Seeked or Scoured spirit, or any way bonded spirit); if the spirit on any thing it's not any jinni... could use Sihr to make the summoning spell so?
Now i think that you say that not, thanks if the summoning art doesn't cover their type.
Edit:
I am making on NPC of sample, one Assassin, well exactly this Asassin:

And admit that is then while i am witing all that i better understand how Solomonic Magic works...
And... Similar spell lab bonus are on the Solomonic Magic?

35

I'm not sure I'm fully getting your question, either. If it's easier for you, ask it in spanish and I'll translate it to english for you, if you want. :slight_smile:

36

Ok.
Digo que por ejemplo, si un sahir averigua un Nombre Auténtico, adquiere una conexión arcana o le entregan un espíritu atado que no es un genio, como el total para crear un hechizo de invocación no depende de Sihr si no de Astrología, podría aprenderlo. Pero al realizar lo no sumaría Sihr, con lo que la potencia de invocación siempre sería muy mala... ¿O sólo se podría usar el Sihr Solomónico porque funciona mejor con esos hechizos como también dice?
Lo mismo para Narración (Lo traduzco yo así Storytelling), que puedes atraer o atrapar otra clase de espíritus, idealmente elementales sin inteligencia para hacer ataduras me imagino. O genios para intentar establecer acuerdos y Servidumbre. Pero también pues usarlo para luego adquirir su Nombre o hacer el hechizo en la siguiente estación y así.
Por eso digo, que entiendo que el Sihr "Ibérico" no puede emplearse así porque ya no funciona tan bien, pero que en mecanismo concreto y solitario (invocar genios), funcionan exactamente igual. Me imagino que es igual de posible considerar de que como funcionan igual pues no funciona con los demás espíritus no genios. Pero entonces ciertamente Sihr tiene límites algo chungos... pero explica porque buscar miembros que tengan incluso poderes infernales...
Imagino que al final se puede dejar en libre consideración...

37

Here's my translation of Mario's question, trying to be as accurate as possible: