A Question About Animal, Mentem, and Cunning Men

Humanoid bodies are affected by Corpus, but Corpus does not affect the mind. Check. Mentem affects intelligent creatures regardless of their shape. Check. Animal affects both animal bodies and the animal intelligence of those bodies, but does not affect intelligent minds and importantly can not affect anything that isn't in the shape of the broad term "animal." So what is the rules consensus on effects that target the minds of humanoids with a Cunning score? Liberal use of requisites, perhaps?

I would use Animal with no requisite (My opinion only)


which humanoids with cunning score are you worried about?


I'm currently designing a troll pack for my game. I'm aware RoP:F has trolls just listed as shaggy humanoids, but I'm being creative here, making them look the same (clawed, shaggy-furred, ugly-faced humanoids) but be mentally bestial creatures who hunt in a way akin to wolves, by scent and tight pack instinct. It's relevant because one of their powers is a cry that gives the other pack members basic information about the user's situation (whether it's an enemy or fleeing prey and in the latter case which way it's going, mainly) and I know this would be something like the CrMe effect for creating that information as a memory-equivalent in the other creature's mind but I'm not sure exactly what Form it is. It probably won't end up mattering, but I'd like to know the relevant rules just in case.

Do monkeys or gorillas exist in Mythic Europe? If they do, I'd say you should treat a huminoid with cunning the same way that monkeys are treated...however that is.

EDIT - ooh, here y'go: Barbary macaque: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_macaque

So, the answer is, "it's probably in the upcoming Tribunal Book" (which seems to directly mention monkeys in the product description - so maybe one of the authors can chime in here and give general guidance?) atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG0310.php

For me, the essence of being human is being rational (i.e. Intelligence rather than Cunning). Creatures that are not rational are not human (of course, nothing with a Might score is human, but putting that aside for the moment). So in my saga these trolls would be Animal in Form, which would govern their bodies and their intellect. Monkeys are certainly Animal, so too (probably) are the gorillae described by Hanno the Navigator.


The key for determining whether a body can be affected by Corpus is how human it looks. Faeries and creatures with might that take the human form are affected by Corpus spells (page 78, ArM5). It's not that humanoid bodies are affected by corpus, it's specifically bodies of faeries or creatures of might that look human. It is an important distinction from humanoid in shape.

I think this establishes something of a test, beings with Might who look human, could pass for human among others, that's what's affected by Corpus. Faeries often pretend to be humans, only to adjust their form when the story calls for it. Up until they assume a different form they are subject to Corpus spells. I don't think trolls could meet that standard, and therefore they must be animal, despite their humanoid shape.

However, I don't think we're fully answering the question and may not be able to from the OP. For example, let's look at elementals, beings of Aq/Au/Ig/Te with Cunning. Would An be used to scare them away? That doesn't seem right. I think we established before, though I'd have to do some searching, that in such instances it's more likely to be a specialized use of Aq/Au/Ig/Te. What exactly are these trolls made of? Are they essentially living clay? Animate swamp muck? Are they animals in nearly the shape of humans (as prior answers seem to assume)? Something else?

... Huh. I never took the time to think about what the Faerie's glamour is composed of. I'm not really trying to go for anything too difficult for the players to figure out.

As for the question "does it look human?"... RoPF seems to think so, given that their intelligent (and apparently un-clawed) version is human enough by the book's standards to be affected by Corpus spells and produce Corpus vis.

I think I will go with making them be affected by Animal though. Thanks guys!