That is what I'm arguing for, actually, and yes, it is not technically a normal Hermetic effect. It becomes one easily by simply saying "not fully integrated", just like the Aegis, and the old spell which destroys everything in a certain radius of you.
I quite like the definition, since it defines things in terms of hermetic theory and natural philosophy, rather than game rules, which I find makes the setting more coherent and thus real to me.
Couldn't he just use gloves?
Depends - can a faerie wear gloves to rub out a warding circle? I think the general interpretation is that you need several layers of intermediary to do things like that. The Faerie asks the apprentice to juggle some water jugs, the apprentice drops a jug, the water erases the chalk and the faerie is freed being one example.
I was just struck by the ramifications of the differences in interpretations between the circle for a ward and a normal circle spell and thought the consequences interesting.
Precisely. And that places it firmly outside the normal Circle target with targets the things inside the circle, not the circle itself.
I agree. As has been mentioned, the target of a PoF is the fire itself and noone seems to argue you need to penetrate its resistance. That said, I favour being able to use ACs in warding, though I think that the penetration for anyone not specifically warded against should be 0. A ward against dragons works on all dragons poorly, a ward against Smaug only stops Smaug.
To have circle wards inside hermetic theory you'd need 2 versions of it:
Circle of protection: PROTECTS the things inside it, granting MR vs enemies or effects outside it
Circular prison: HINDERS those inside it, probably by reducing their might by the amount of effect of the circle. if that leaves their might pool empty they are unable to cross the boundary.
In both cases does not prevent anyone to act across the circle from the other side of it. it would make some sense, though (unless I overlooked something, that is likely)
tell me you don't have Smaug in Mythic Earth! 
Cheers,
Xavi
I actually quite like the "you cannot act across this" boundary, in terms f placing a thing outside someone's realm of influence which is how I envisage a circle-ward working. Making wards add magic resistance complicates matters, I feel.
Actually, the easiest way to do this currently is the ReFo 5 guideline for commanding a spirit of the Form (presumably there are equivalents for other forms and nonSpirits such as the Tytalus' Prison spell) to simply order a creature to make no attempt to leave the circle with ring duration.
I don't like the idea of reducing the Might pool because that's a Perdo effect, even if only suppressing it. That said , it's probably a foolish magus who doesn't also layer Perdo effects around and in his wards to help keep his captured creature from escaping.
True. I tend to see the current Wards as, as I said, the circle/dome as being the immovable object and as such the Fae (I'm not sure why I always use Faeries as my example) cannot affect things across the barrier but magi and grogs can act across it because to them, it's not there. I confess that one of the reasons I like this is because of the massive reduction in utility it grants Personal wards, making them useful but, by removing the magus offensive abilities against what he's warded against, not a situation where one spell means that you can blissfully ignore anything and everything except as sitting targets.
I do think there should be two types of wards, but more of the absolute ward and the soak ward. At the moment there's the very strange effect where Ward Against Heat And Flames grants soak whilst Ward Against Wood grants immunity, and specifically states that you float over wooden surfaces, not touching them.
No, but he's definitely the most well known named dragon so his was the name I first pulled from the air.
This is something that confused me. Why do I see a lot of people claim that the RAW says wards must penetrate the creature trying to cross it?
You cast a circular ward against demons to protect your grogs and yourself, you have to penetrate your magic resistance (and the grogs) to cast it and then it blocks out demons of might below the level of the spell. Why would you need to penetrate the demon's might to block it? You don't need a level 40 casting total to get a level 20 spell to block level 20 might beings. The might 20 beings are not the target of the spell.
The problem is that target means two things in Ars Magica. It can refer to the spell effect and also to the thing that the spell effect affects.
Consider a Pilum of Fire - the target is Individual because it creates a single fire of that size. The target is also the thing you summon the fire on top of. Magic resistance resists magic it comes into contact with, regardless of whether or not it was the original target. Were that not the case, there would be no problem with casting a Pilum of Fire at someone's feet because the earth wouldn't resist the fire, and they'd get hit by it anyway.
Xavi is brilliant! This is exactly whay I think as well. Wards should be a one-way circle. Spells that Trap/Bind should be separate spells.
I've actually got a long essayish thing sitting around of my houserules and tweaks, and in it I do favour directional wards (albeit the same spell, cast twice - Hermetic magic is flexible, after all).
That said, binding and trapping are two very different things, and those I do think should be different spells.
I am happy I do not live in Chicago. Otherwise I would start feeling sexually threatened by Mark
Regarding the effect, maybe this could be a focus for ward masters (columbae: they would only need to cast a single spell for a bidirectional effect.
Xavi
gaggagbarf!!!!
All you have is a cool name. For all I know, you can be a mishappen troll.
And I am pretty sure you are a guy, so that nixes it right there 
And if you did live in the city of scandel, you would be freezing your (insert favored explicitive) off! It is very cold, and I don't have the appropriate ward against these frost trolls.
So, your apartment has a Structure Ward vs Marks active and you cannot leave it, only enter it?
Xavi
No, no. It has no structure ward against anything! Cold creeps right in through all kinds of cracks and crevices. I have a small Creo Ignem device (a ceramic space heater) that I huddle close to under a blanket. I have all these freaking cats and you would figure that one of them would be magical and put up wards for me. But nooooo. Ungrateful little ratlings.
Agreed, I like this, and it adds flavor
I would like to come back to the PoF argument, since I think that is a not a correct example:
Ftaghn stated that while the fire is the actual target, the blasted individual's MR has to be penetrated. The fire being the target is not as obvious as you state it, since the blasted individual also needs to be in range and therefore might very well be considered the target. I do agree that the blasted individual's MR has to be penetrated, but I don't think it's the reference for a Warding spell.
I like to see a Ward as a wall that only exists for the thing warded against (so a Ward against the Fay only blocks Fairies, but not Demons or Grogs). If I create a stone wall, nobody is suggesting that it has to penetrate the MR of a Fairy that happens to want to walk through it.
So IMO, if the ward is in place it doesn't have to penetrate. And you cannot use a ward to drive something out in an active fashion (that requires other Rego effects).
That's the very problem I mean - the target from the point of view of the spell guidelines is not the target of the spell from the point of view of the caster. Were you to use Creo Terram to create a boulder 10 feet above someone's head, the distinction gets a little clearer - the boulder is clearly the target, and the range is the range to where the boulder can be formed. That it will then fall and brain somebody (assuming it penetrates) is incidental, the same spell could be used to block a doorway or dam a small stream.
The problem there (and it's more or less the analogy I use in my head) is that a stone wall is physical; the ward is immaterial. Creating a stone wall doesn't need to penetrate to block someone, but it does need to do so to harm them. It also doesn't block attempts across the wall, though for an hermetic mage you would need additional spells to allow you to sense across the wall. A ward is a wall which only exists for the target and that's why it needs to penetrate. The fact that levels of Might are built into the spell are a legacy effect from 4th ed where the penetration was the casting total - for 5th to make sense internally, I feel a flat guideline makes most sense. How would you feel if that were the case - that an apprentices ward could keep out a minor drake but an archmages, by dint of being the same level but far higher penetration, could bar the way of a great dragon?
And yes, you'd definitely need other Rego effects to actually drive something away.
Thagt would be a possible solution, yup.
Cheers,
Xavi
I would like to add to Fhtagn arguments.
My point is Paris' argument is not acceptable, because the blasted individual need not be in range for a PoF-like spell. You could create a fire in a damp stone tunnel that last for a Sun duration, (sustained by magic) .When people "just happen" to try to get through, you would need to penetrate their MR to burn them.
A Pilum of Fire is just that: it create a fire that does damage. The fact that it take the form of a Pilum and need to be throwed, is just cool and is a cosmetic change.
The exemple of the PoF proove the non-sense of a reading of wards not needing to penetrate, and also the non-sense of deniying wards the use of Arcane Connection if you follow the core book rules. That's all true if you want to make a good reading of the rules. If you want to continue playing according to your view of what is a ward, I think it's perfectly fine to do as you wish.
About that part, I've written something that may add light to the comparison between wards and walls.
Here:
Creo Ignem, Voice range:
I create a fire at voice range. That's all.
Why has the MR to be penetrated? Because you're creating it at the location of a being with MR, which'll try to stop any magical effect cast there.
Think of a MR being as a "no-magic zone"