Aargh, yet another Parma Magica question

I am sorry to repropose a Parma topic but my players do not find any useful information that satisfy their taste in the previous topics, so here I am again :frowning:

My answer is simple and a little bit noob, does a maga need to penetrate her PM if casting Wind of Circular Protection (or other Touch spells) on herself?

Reading the FAQs I suppose yes, but if it is so a beginning maga is very limited to defend herself with these spells because the spell in my example is Level 20 and I doubt she has enough Penetration to penetrate her (PM time 5 + Auram Score - or another Form for others spells).

Casting in an hostile Aura is more difficult because the Aura Score is a penalty to the casting total (and for Penetration too).

Any help?

You may concentrate for a moment and supress your Parma in order to cast Touch range spells on yourself (or another upon you) in such situations.

yes, but does this action require time (a round I suppose) or it is free?
Moreover the maga needs to concentrate and in combat this is not a trivial action but require a Concentration roll of 12+, a very high value to reach!!!

Except for Personal range spells, the magus must lower his Parma Magica temporarily (or penetrate his own magic resistance) to affect himself with magic.

I do not know if the following is actually official, but this is how we have always used it: the lowering the parma, while it must be a conscious action, does not actually require concentration per se, so for that purpose, Concentration Ability is not necessary (very useful otherwise, however).

As for the Circling Winds of Protection, I would point out that the wind does not actually affect the magus casting it at all, it is cast on the wind (to be created) instead. So in this case, no need to lower your Parma Magica anyhow.

page 85 bottom of the rightmost column:


Parma needs a Concentration roll to be lowered, page 66 in the description of the Ability

Actually, Erik's quote was enough to convince me already... :wink:

Interestingly enough, this has rarely been an issue in our sagas (mostly because folks tend to invent R: Personal variants of those spells they intend to cast on themselves). This is why I haven't paid much attention to the fact.

But still, not an issue with Circling Winds of Protection, there are plenty of other spells where it is (Corpus spells especially).

Btw, getting those Concentration scores high enough to actually reliably cast spells while concentrating can be quite hard. The same is true for Finesse scores if you wish to use convincing illusions or do craft spells.

From another post... Per NDKid...
"1) can you make a spell with which you could choose either Touch or Personal when you cast it?

You're always considered to be touching yourself. If you mean have it be 1 magnitude easier to cast at personal than it is at touch, no, that's two spells, although you can use MuVi, I think, to achieve such effects. "

SO if you are always considered to be 'touching yourself' you should not have to drop your Parma to cast a touch spell on yourself? 


No, you need to Penetrate with Touch range spells. So if you are casting them on yourself, you need to suppress your Parma.

The only advantage you have when casting Touch range spells on yourself (as opposed to someone else) is that you don't need to contrive to find a way to physically touch the target.

I seem to remember the core book saying that one's parma extends over their clothes, anything in their hands, etc. Does this mean, then, that a magus can cast a spell on his own clothes/sword/etc at range Touch without having to penetrate or drop parma, but not himself?

EDIT: Also, does this mean that a magus under the effects of the longevity ritual cannot touch himself with his parma up? Attempts to scratch an itch fail?

Yes, your magic resistance extends over your personal equipment. And no, you cannot cast spells on your worn equipment and bypass your magic resistance that way using touch spells.

Well, longevity ritual is a very personal effect (R: Personal too, I suppose), so it wouldn't be hampered by your own Parma Magica. Longevity rituals and Parma itself cause some other rather silly effects though, if they are taken literally...

Like take that Bjornaer magus who wants to bite something in his wolf shape (his heartbeast). Ok, the wolf shape for him is a natural form, so opponent's magic resistance is not an issue. However, if he has a longevity ritual, it has no penetration (or rules for creating one with penetration for that matter) and stops the attack. The same is actually true for his own Parma Magica - it is a magical effect as well, and does not really have any penetration either.

I'm having a hard time getting this to make sense in my head. "Excuse me, grog, could you hold my staff for me so I can cast a range Touch spell on it? I can't can't Touch spells on my worn equipment, you see, but if you hold it, it'll be fine... what do you mean that makes no sense? Do you besmirch the good name of Bonisagus, the creator of our arbitrary and capricious rules?!?"

You can offcourse touch yourself. And anything you might be wearing. However, a spell with a non-personal range will not be tuned to bypass your own parma.

The way I always imagined it is as follows:

Range Personal: You pull some random magical energy into yourself and shape it into a spell which then effects you.

Range Touch, Voice etc: You gather some magical energies in front of you and shape it into a spell which then flies off somewhere or lurks around your hands on-top of your parma.

Due to my interpretation, if you want to use MuVi spells to alter a R:p to R:T, the magic is still formed inside you, but has to penetrate your parma to get out. Same for changing a R:T to a R:P, it still needs to penetrate the Parma to get in, so there's no real difference.

I arrived at these conclusions after reading the MuVi spell guidelines - you can effect a spell that someone is casting as long as it has a range greater than Personal. Therefore Personal must be somewhere your magic can't effect - like inside their Parma.

Just to point out that on Muto Vim guidelines (page 159 in the rulebook):

"Touch range is sufficient to affect your own spells, but Voice range, at least, is needed to affect another magus's casting. You cannot touch the spell itself."

Which somewhat conflicts your reasoning, at least in my mind (but if it works for you, great).

Of course you could always pluck out a hair in your head and knowing your own true/nick name adds an extra bonus to that multipliying your penetration by a fair bit.

Holding your talisman or your familiar would also work out quite well.

As for sympathetic bonuses... I don't know, maybe we should settle for a flat penetration bonus for "casting on yourself" that would be applied in stead of and not stack with the other bonuses.

Although, granted, drawing your own horoscope should be rewarded, especially when someone else could put their hands on it, and possibly reverse-engineer it.

On page 84 in the Core rulebook, text located below the 'sympathetic connections' box, it states
"Arcane Connections allow a maga to cast a spell on something she is not currently sensing, as long as she is currently aware of the Arcane Connection."

This seems to illustrate that you just have to be aware of the Arcane Connection, and not holding it in your hand. maybe...

Could someone please explain this confusing passage for me???


Normally to cast a spell on a target you need to be able to sense the target somehow. (It's the limit of arcane connections on page 80)

However, if you have an arcane connection and are casting a spell with the range arcane connection you don't need to sense the target. You only need to sense the arcane connection. (some intellego spells are exempt from this rule).

The important points there being

  1. The spell has Arcane Connection range
  2. You can sense the Arcane Connection
  3. You know its an Arcane Connection

Though I suppose most things are an AC to something, so if you didn't care where your spell went you could cast it with whatever you happened to have laying around...

Also, you can use Opening the Intangible Tunnel to cast non Arcane Connection range spells at AC range, with an AC of course.