[Alternate Settings/Period]Firearms

Has anyone crafted any firearms rules for arquebus, matchlocks and flintlocks?

I'm working on an alternate setting and was thinking it might be neat to add these. I do understand that gunpowder does not work in the Aristotelian World. But I figure somebody had to come up with these already... :smiley:

If you'd like updating 2nd/3rd edition material, look up the Deadfire Saga. Though the earliest bits of it seems to have fallen off the web, including the wheel-lock rules. (Not surprising, perhaps, for a 1994-1995 saga.)

web.archive.org/web/199812060844 ... dfire.html

Anyone got a copy? I'll go take a look in my archives.

Lydia might be contactable via some googling.

[tablewithborder][th]Type Init Atk Def Dmg Rng Str Ld Cost[/th]
[tr][td]Ribald +5 +5 n/a +10 50 n/a n/a Exp[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Gonne +5 +1 n/a +15 75 n/a n/a Exp[/td][/tr][/tablewithborder]
My table-fu is weak , so read page 20/21 in Sub Rosa #04
and find the whole article by Mark Shirley on page 18.

Arquebuses and the like are a little out of period but early cannon and explosive mines are certainly medieval. I prefer to be guided by actual history than by Aristotle as to what's appropriate. I want Europe, not Glorantha.

I like these greek fire "grenades" from Crete's second Byzantine period (until 1204).

Gunpowder cannon is still very slightly out-of-period in Europe in 1220. First confirmed use in Europe in 1248, according to quick googling. But it will certainly be used within a Magus of 1220's lifetime.

Well, I did say "Alternate Setting/Period." :smiley: In fact it would not be in Mythic Europe at all.

First confirmed isnt the same as first known. I checked up on it last year or something and IIRC, the first use of firearems (if ever so primitive) may have been centuries earlier (and that means it probably was).
Use of something that may have been a European variant of the Chinese firelance was hinted at in the 10th century IIRC.

Anyway, more importantly, one thing often forgotten is that gunpowderbased weaponry isnt going to be quite as interesting in a world with magi. One simple little heat or fire spell and any kegs of powder, and any powder horns could be detonated at just about any range the magi want to use it at.
Depending on how "publically" you play magic, it might very well be enough to keep gunpowder from being anything but a tool of limited use. Reality wasnt THAT far away from that happening even, mostly because early firearms were so primitive. They became truly popular on ships first, and without the development from there might never have made the transition into common weapons. Crossbows could easily be made up until the 18 century that could rival personal firearms in nearly every way.
(siege weapon was the other big use, and it didnt lead to much real improvement)

Totally yes on all 3 points.

And one simple little warding spell will prevent this.
Gunpowder is easily made with Craft Magic and the ingredients need only be created as needed.
Even then , why make gunpowder ,
simply Muto flour so that it has the explosive properties of gunpowder as well as its own.

Is it so easy? You'd think it would be but Greek Fire is an incredibly difficult inception according to A&A.

I would require this sort of Muto to follow the Craft Magic rules too, or else add a whole lot of requisites for complexity. Changing properties with Muto can get abusive very fast when players try combining the low level guidelines with the fules on the natural world.

Sure. Mary Gentle's Visigoth empire or Lost Burgundy of the fourteen hundreds would be a fun experiment. :smiley:

You think anyone who could potentially get firearms could also get their hands on someone to use magic for them?
Extremely unlikely. That would be to close to making a servant out of a magi for most to be pleased about.
Warding stuff so that mundanes feels safer? Many would be far too snotty to even consider such an outrageous idea.
Most wouldnt care at all.
However, enough magi would care about mundanes being annoying...

And, needing only the most miniscule of spells to make it go BOOOM, the amount of penetration a magi who considers "those people with firearms" to be a nuisance can put into the spell, its going to be enough to penetrate a LOT of wards, even if there are any.

And i would say that gunpowder isnt quite that easy to make. Generally the more complex the processing, the more complex the magic is needed to copy the end result. And gunpowder is quite a bother to make. The huge advantage it has, is that the process is very suitable for large scale production(at least as long as you avoid anything that might cause it to explode early, which is why even early makers of gunpowder tended to use houses with loose roofs(if it blows up, the roof literally blows UP and away, giving people inside much greater chance at surviving the blast)). Which is why gunpowder+ball is so much cheaper than the much simpler to make arrows or even better, metal crossbow bolts(ie. even if its much easier to make an arrow, in the time and effort you make 50 arrows, you can make gunpowder and balls enough for at least 10 times as many shots even with primitive field equipment, while a serious manufacturer can make at least 10 times more again).

Gosh no! What was i thinking.
All Hail the Almighty and Omnipotent Order of Hermes! You who have slain all your magical enemies and hath no living renegades. :stuck_out_tongue:

Fortunately , i live in a Rational Aura (page 334) and have the Virtue of True Reason (page 333 , ArM 03).

For people that could easily prove that there was magic in Mythic Europe, I loved these :mrgreen: We called it a delusion.