Trust me, most of those have very low Quality scores!
That's what we call a theoretical physicist. And yes, they are very valuable to us.
5 Likes
Sure, but would you send them on adventure?
1 Like
Honestly, I wouldn't send most experimental physicists adventuring either. Engineers, maybe.
4 Likes
It may seem that Ars Magica has the rules to train both theoretical and experimental wizards, but have neglected adventuring engineers.
1 Like
Sure, but would you send them on adventure?
I know an experimental physicist who is a competition shooter, so Iād probably take him over almost any other physicist for an adventureā¦
1 Like
I'm sure they are dire. No doubt most Tractatus are as well. Basically by definition the majority of the Order has non-positive Communication and Good Teacher is likely a rarity. And that's without any consideration of the fact that the few Houses that might select for good Communication score include Jerbiton and Tytalus. Neither being Houses you'd expect to spend long hours writing books on the Arts for general circulation.
I am quite sure that anyone stuck grinding xp through books is enduring a large number of quite dreadful texts.
Actually, the average communication of the order should be zero, as the Gift is not connected to any stat in particular.
Just because players often dump it, that doesnāt mean that the statistical average is non-zero.
2 Likes
The median should zero. Unless you have some reason to believe it is not an even distribution or a bell curve clustered at zero? So as many wizards will be negative as will be positive. With a large cluster around zero. Hence, the majority will be non-positive, ie 0 or negative.
No, but having the arts opened may be. Too many magi would be opposed to low Int. Some stats may also affect the ability to survive until apprenticed, in a community where nobody trusts you. OTOH, the average set of characteristics is seven points above zero, and a fraction of that might fall on Com. There are too many caveats to make a theoretical analysis of the statistical distribution within the Order.
2 Likes
I don't see how any of this follows. If there weren't Characteristic-improving spells, sure. But as long as those exist and get used some, shouldn't the value be greater than 0? Maybe not a lot greater than 0, but at least a little bit. If there weren't Longevity Rituals, I would expect a value lower than 0 due to aging, but aging effects should be minimal due to LR's and the split of 8 Characteristics and the ability to recover Characteristics with the aforementioned spells.
2 Likes
I'm not under the impression that the average magus is going to enduring warping to write tractatus. YMMV.
Whatever the distribution of Com and Good Teacher, won't most Tractatus be written by the better authors in the Order? Meaning the distribution of ability won't match the quality of books.
3 Likes
No? That's what you would want, but that's not going to align with the wants of the magi who have to write them. Just because I'm good at writing doesn't mean I want to spend time doing so. And just because I'm bad at writing effectively doesn't stop me from writing if I want to. After all, it is self-publishing.
More to the point, if there is this voracious need for tractatus to keep wizards from having to enter their lab, you'll need A LOT of tractatus. Which means you can't be too picky, even if you give wizards a mysterious ability to know the mechanical value of any given tractatus in character.
1 Like
Tytalus might see establishing themselves as the absolutely dominant authority on a particular Art as a worthwhile Legacy, though -- or creating a rivalry for 'Best Art'. And Tremere might see raising the Arts as a way of strengthening the House or the Order; and assigning a mage or two with noticeable competency is perfectly in character. Bonisagus like the conceit that they are the best and brightest, and might feel driven to prove their status with book publications.
Bjornaer, Criamon, Ex Misc, Flambeau, Geurnicus, Jerbiton, Mercere, Merinta, and Veriditus -- all might have little interest in 'Best Book' or even 'Best Art' in particular, but even in those houses there might be a small percentage who feel driven to excel. And that might include excelling in an Art.
And the Order grades Tracti and Summae by quality -- so it makes sense that higher-quality copies are more valuable, and get copied more often.
I'm not saying that it is inevitable that in the centuries of the existence of the Order that absolute-maximum books become the norm; but it does not strain credibility that a near-maximum book or two exists for most Arts.
2 Likes
I'm not saying only good authors will write books, just that there will be a correlation: because the rewards for good authors are much more than they are for bad authors. There will certainly be some bad authors out there, and they will probably attract some readers who have run out of better quality works.
I'm just saying that figuring out the hypothetical distribution of Com scores in the Order doesn't tell you what the distribution of book quality is.
FWIW in our campaign, the GM is quite coy about telling us the quality of books until we have a copy of them, though we may get a general idea of their reputation. We assume that most librarians know which of their books is the best. And once we do have a copy, we assume that a day or so browsing a book is enough to tell us how good it is. That's not that mysterious an ability.
1 Like
This sounds likely to me, and even more likely if the accepted best text is written by someone in Tremere, and they think they can knock that book into second place.
1 Like
No, but having the arts opened may be. Too many magi would be opposed to low Int. Some stats may also affect the ability to survive until apprenticed, in a community where nobody trusts you. OTOH, the average set of characteristics is seven points above zero, and a fraction of that might fall on Com. There are too many caveats to make a theoretical analysis of the statistical distribution within the Order.
The attribute points is a good point. Iād say the average Com should be greater than zero.
Beyond that, the Gift is rare enough that I donāt feel that magi will be picky beyond trading an apprentice away if they are not a good fit for that magus.
Beyond that, I think we should keep in mind the survivorship bias. No one is copying drivel, but they are copying good books.
2 Likes
Sure, you can do that if that makes sense to you. But it's equally likely that isn't true.
You need someone driven to excel in that specific way (highest Art), also very good at writing, also willing and able to write at that stage of their career, and with the wherewithal to publish and circulate the book. For each of the 15 Arts.
This is still the Middle Ages, even with the Order and its Redcaps. It isn't clear that there is any kind of centralized way to have books reviewed and those book reviews distributed and validated. The Bonisagus have a process just for the House, but that (the Folio) favors Lab texts with experimental results over books.
It is easy to visual a situation where fancy spells, items, certamen, etc are more impactful of a magus' prestige than tractatus or other books.
That's all saga dependant. It is very easy to imagine it going either way. And that should be gauged by what is most fun for your group.
That's not how math works. It doesn't matter if the average magus would. If you start with a mean of 0 and one magus does it, then the mean rises above 0.
Yes, absolutely.
Sure, but which books will others pay lots of vis for and which books will get copied and passed down for generations?
1 Like
Sure, but which books will others pay lots of vis for and which books will get copied and passed down for generations?
This to me is the key. There are 13 Tribunals. If each has an average of 100 magi, thatās 1300 active magi right now.
If you have a 6 in an art, you can write 2 tractatus for that art. The existence of Roots means that most magi will reach that level in most arts within a couple of decades. That implies to me that there are at least 1000 magi capable of writing 2+ tractatus on every art in Mythic Europe in the canonical timeframe.
If even 1% of those can do so at a high level of skill, that means that the Order could have at least 20 tractatus for each art at a solid quality from currently living magi.
Given that quality books can be readily traded for vis and other things magi want, those who can write are incentivized to write and sell.
With over 400 years of magi writing tractatus, the order should logically be swimming in high quality tractatus.
Obviously this is a saga question, but for me if I were running a saga and wanted to greatly limit book availability, Iād want to come up with an in universe rationale for why books are uncommon.
5 Likes