Animal Creation

Hi all

I am trying to create a Saber tooth tiger from the rules in Mystery Cults, and I think that it is strange that the Large Claw is more dangerous than Large Teeth natural weapon.
Large Claw has more in Atk, Def. and Dam than Large Teeth.

Can anyone explain tom me why it is like that, or is it an error in the book?

In my understanding at bite from a large Cat, would inflict more damage than an attack with the claws.

I would disagree. Putting your face towards the enemy is certainly a defense disadvantage versus claws, and arms are more accurate and agile than using your neck to swing your head around. As for damage, you may have a pint depending on the creature and how it is fighting. Since a sabre tooth cat is a mythic type creature, I would suggest taking the "Increased Damage" Quality a few times :smiley:


Animals like lions and possibly saber-toothed tigers use their claws as 'openers' and their teeth to close the deal.

Their teeth do far more damage than their claws, but are more difficult to use.

AM doesn't quite represent what happens (or what seems to happen) in all those nature shows I've watched (well, the ones involving lions and stuff :slight_smile: ).

From stealth, the lion sprints to its prey, leaps on it and grabs it, digging in with its claws. If the lion fails to get a good hold, it at least manages to rake its prey, setting it up for further attacks, but also making the lion vulnerable.

If the lion does manage to get a grip with its teeth, it's all over--but that's harder.

AM is missing the grabby part of claws.

Teeth: Great damage, not-so-great attack.
Claws: Great attack, ok damage, possible grab which gives a bonus to subsequent bite.



yah... cat will swipe with intention of grabbing/knocking you over, pin, then crush the neck with jaws.

Or Grab, tumble and Rake with hind legs. Which really comes down to it being on top of you or you on top of it after it pounces.

In what book is the Increased Damage Quality described?

Well, I agree with you statment Ovarwa, but the stats is as follows.

Large Teeth
Int = 0 Atk = +4 Dfn +1 Dam = +3

Large Claws
Int = 0 Atk = +5 Dfn +3 Dam = +4

The Large claws is bether in both Atk and dam. :exclamation:

How high should the dam be for Large Teeth, compared to the Large Claws :question:

Thats how it hunts, not how it would act if it got into a fight.

The reason "its all over" if they get a good grip with their teeth is because the normal techniques are to choke the prey by "biting" over its mouth and nose, or to bite off its windpipe.
Those are very damaging attacks, its not damaging because a bite attack is far more powerful.
A single swipe of a lion´s paw, even if it has no claws, can certainly make a human unconcious(has happened lots of times, and that includes lots of times when the lion in question wasnt trying to do any harm or was even just merely playful).

And probably correctly so. The only thing missing would be something to allow a successful bite attack the chance to be a "deadly" attack and do additional damage(ALOT).

That's because most cats are attempting a grapple (or stunning blow) with their claws. Cats do this because they want the prey immobile before it gets near their eyes, unless they are attacking a safe point (like the necks of most mammals).

Just to clarify, do you mean if cornered in the wild? My point being basically that a D&D style fight with a lion is unlikely, because if they think you have the advantage over them, they just lkeave and ambush you later.

If they think you have the advantage over them and leave, they dont "come back". And i cant recall ever hearing about a lion being driven off that comes back and ambushes the same people later.
And lions arent big on the whole ambushing thing anyway, at least when it comes to humans. Tigers does that though, but not after getting scared off first.

I meant if a lion has been pushed into or picked a fight regardless where.

And what the heck do you specifically mean by "D&D style fight"?
Lions doesnt commonly fight with or attack humans anyway.
With the exception being the rare few that finds humans to be "better" prey than their usual diet.

Also note that im not bothering to separate male/female lion behaviour here.
Still, since the original post was about sabretooth tigers we dont know how they acted so its a total guess, maybe they went extinct exactly because they were stupid and hunted with their bite as main attack. :stuck_out_tongue:


Oh, I don't know! There I was, the other day, walking along El Camino Real, and suddenly I hear this voice from behind me growl, "Roll inititiative!" I whirl around and find a lion! I was so surprised to find a talking lion that he sneak attacked me during a surprise round, and that was the end of me.



:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Tigers are vengeful. Tigers are the only creature (afaik) that hunts humans as a preferred prey. Tigers are also known for "revenge killings" that have nothing to do with hunting. There was a famous viral video a few years ago where a mother tiger stalked out and killed a crocodile that killed and ate her cubs. She didn't eat it, it was pure revenge.

Maybe the saber tooth died out because it's awkward giant teeth kept getting in the way? Perhaps these teeth just look cool but are actually impractical compared to the modern feline dental arrangement.

My idea was to use a trained Big Cat as a weapon.
There for I needed some “realistic” stats on the Bite attack, the book seemed to be wrong, because the Big Cat could inflict more damage with its claws.

Another option could be to use a big Cat in a gladiator battle, and then the normal combat rules should apply.

If we put it down to the basic, I think that a bite attack from a Big Cat should be deadly, and the stats in the book seams to be to low on damaged to be able to do that.

While most felines do tend to avoid "Fights" in favour of ambush tactics, lions are an exception and probably not the best example. This is because:

  1. They are more prone to scavenging than most feline species and need to drive other predators from their kills.
  2. Rival males fight for mating rights and territory.

In any case, the exaggerated carnassial teeth of saber-toothed cats are generally considered to have been a clumsy weapon. Interestingly, because their jaws needed greater flexibility to bite with their oversized teeth, their bite-strength was, apparently, proportionately weak anyway.

A fight where wild animals attack you because you enter their territory, regardless of the fact that in real life, they wouldn't do that.

Ken, aren't you the guy who almost lost a finger because your cat bit you while you were bathing him, and it hit the nerve in your elbow and infected it? Or was that Robbie Westmoreland?

When I play sabre toothed cats in games, I can't help using the same accent as Terry Pratchett uses for Offler the Crocodille God. Its very hard to talk normally with huge fangs in your mouth. 8)

It wasn't me!

Now that I think on this, it wasn't a sabre tooth, it was a marsupial lion. It was a sort of possum we had here back in the megafauna days, like a lion with a pouch, and Thumbs of Death.

Tasmanian Tiger! I was reading about them the other day. They were declared extinct back in the 90's since there has been no evidence of a live specimin for over fifty years (last one died in the 1930's). But in 1220, I am sure that the island is rampant with them! Makes for an odd but interesting adventure :wink:

I also read that some scientists are attempting to clone them and bring the Tassies back. I further read that there have been isolated unconfirmed sighting of the tassie in Australia.