Another New Spell

Okay, this was another pick for my newest Flambeau magus, but I dropped it in favor of something else. But I wanted to get some feedback on this one. The name and concept is ripped from an old WGRE spell, but the internal mechanics are different.

PeCo20 Pain of the Wizard’s Gaze:
R: Eye, D: Conc, T: Ind
The Target is suddenly (and temporarily) Incapacitated by extreme pain. They fall to the floor, writhing in agony so severe that they cannot even scream. By spending a Confidence point, they can attempt some desperate action (reach for something, make a stab, cast a spell, etceteras). Such actions are at a -6 Penalty. The spell causes no real damage, no matter how frail or fragile the victim. Once released, the pain quickly recedes as if it never existed, and it takes only a moment to recover.
(Base 4, +2 Voice, +1 Concentration, +1 extra severe pain)

Well, for one it redefines how Confidence Points work, adding something entirely new to what they apply to. A person with Low Self Confidence cannot withstand pain, but if you're very Confident you can outlast it better? Sounds more like something that Strong Will should apply to, and that is an attribute roll of some sort - Stamina most likely.

Effects that a strong mind can withstand should have a roll, not a "pay the toll" escape clause, imo.

I'm also not sure that one magnitude is enough to completely debilitate a person. In an animal mind, "pain" is something that is reacted to - in a human mind, it can be overcome by determination, and influenced by Personality traits and/or certain Virtues/Flaws (if a Dependent were involved, for instance).

If I were the SG, I'd go with the same, but with only the -6, and possibly a Stamina roll, and require no payment to get there.

How about requiring a Stamina roll of 9+ to take action? Strong Will &/or Confidence Points could provide a bonus to this.

Imagine your spell with moon duration!

:laughing:, that would be horrid indeed! But that would defeat the purpose of this spell as a means of coercion.

"Now it hurts. Now it doesn't. Now you hurt some more, now you don't. Okay, are you ready to cooperate yet?"

Like that :smiley:

White Wolf, I banish thee! Confidence is not "Willpower", Stamina is.

You need to have lightning shoot out of your hands and a gaping ventilation shaft handily nearby...

here was my issue:

PeCo Guidelines: Causing pain is Base 4, light wound is base 5, medium wound is base 10, heavy wound is base 15 and incapacitating wound is base 20.

He is basically spending a base 5 to totally incapacitate the person with pain (base 4, +1 for more intense pain). This seems a little out of balance. Stamina roll 9+ to act actually makes this spell a little more balanced. A straight -6 to all rolls is also much more balanced. Both takes it to unbalanced realm.

My concept was the impact of pain is one step lower than equivalent wound penalty. So pain for -5 is base 10 (heavy wound 15 step down 1 to 10). Base for -3 is 5.

In retrospect there is a limit to pure pain since wounds aren't just pain, they also damage tissue that it can't actually move right. I would say pain is -3 to all actions for a base 4, -6 to all actions for the more intense of base 5. -9 for a base of 15. This way someone in pain that is very skilled might manage to act despite the pain (-6 though kills most tasks over diff 3-6) and there is a virtue that does allow you to treat pain as if it is less.

Then they can blow confident to succeed in spite pain by the +3 and +6 helping to overcomethe pain modifier.

By the way, the group that he is designing this for might say that his original spell is okay. My dissent is only one voice of 6 and Mark's is one positive of 6.

(Frunny taps Markoko on the shoulder)
Hey, watch it with that steel chair! I am not invoking WW at all! There are other examples throughout cannon for alternative uses of Confidence. Notably in RoP-Magic concerning the use of Ritual Powers.

But I like the idea of a roll better. I miss Natural Resistance :slight_smile:, it added flavor. Using CH's idea, I am thinking a Stamina Roll that either Confidence &/or Strong Will could contribute too would be a better mechanic for this sort of spell.

Two questions though: How severe would the pain need to be in order to criple someone like this? As in, how many magnitudes of severity do I need beyound just the base "cause pain but no real damage"? And, if they succeed in the roll in order to take action, how severe of a penalty should this pain cause?

I am not going to use this spell for the character it was originally intended for, but I am thinking I can recycle it somewhere else.

I think it is a wonderful spell although it occured to me, what level would a mentem spell that caused the subject to think they are in that much pain even if there is nothing hurting them would be. (You are not in pain, there is no perdo magic affecting you, it is all in your mind).

I give in easilly :slight_smile:
The SG also okayed Lancea Magica, but I decided to drop that anyway. I had a spells wish list much longer than I could fill, even with Guild Training and Skilled Parens combined. So everything I dropped made room for stuff I wanted but didn't have space for.

I love making Flambeau magi :smiley:. This is my first Perdo Flambeau magus in a long time. I usually go for Creo (with Ignem or Auram). But I was inspired by the most awesome and excellent Wirth of Flambeau, played by Fixer, and decided to make a magus of the Apromor lineage. Thus, I am tinkering with Perdo spells :laughing:

:blush: :blush: :blush:
Thanks a lot!
Coming from such a flambeau-lover (I mean, the infamous that flambeau guy himself!!!), this is an honor, sir :smiley:

To be able to game alongside such an excellent player...
No sir, the honor is mine.

Enduring constitution virtue is used for pain and fatigue. +3 to resist pain.

My thoughts exactly :laughing:

The spell putting people at -6 or -9 to all actions sounds OK to me. It cripples them enough not to require them to use confidence to act: they are likely to fail anyway unless they spend the confidence you were talking about to get a bonus.