Indeed, part of what I was looking for is a way to reduce the potential warping. Probably not worth worrying about. Speeding healing would b e nice for our grogs, but probably only worth while as a step towards something else. Presumably the challenge if I went with a ring duration spell would be to make sure the ring did not get broken (and as I understand it, covering it would break it rather than protecting it.
Put the ring on the ceiling instead of the floor? Be a little hard to do the casting....
Trying to fill out the background for my character.
I am thinking that he was brought up with the wandering archaeologists (the son of the camp doctor), but was sent elsewhere for his apprenticeship and early study. He came back shortly before the collapse of the group because he remembers it well from growing up. Is that consistent with the starting setup? Would that be "covenant upbringing?"
Also, I believe I saw somewhere that if you take animal companion or magical animal companion, you can't later use that animal as a familiar? Can that animal help you find a familiar?
covenant upbringing (the flaw) would be if you have lived your whole life with the caravan. If you spent the first 5 years there it would qualify for purposes of your childhood abilities but not the flaw. animal companions and magical animal companions can become familiars, but will remain story flaws when they are familiars (which means they will be prone to getting into trouble)
I was planning that he stayed with the caravan until he was sent of for his apprenticeship (probably someone wanted an extrqa favor from House Bonisagus and so sent a good candidate apprentice as a favor.)
Depending on where he was sent it could still qualify- or he could have had an apprenticeship that either began on the caravan or endured with it (for example, if someone initiated him on the caravan, trained him for years there before returning to their home covenant, and continued to indulge the habits that had been developed on the road...)
Some thoughts on build points. First is that books/texts are very expensive by build points, less so when paying by vis. Second, roots should (eventually) be available at a token price. Lastly, we are going to need extra hands to build/maintain the covenant, and I am assuming that specialists we pay BP for will be accustomed to Magi and therefore mitigate the negative affects of the Gift. Therefore I am focusing primarily on what my character needs for long term development as well as economic support for the covenant. I'm not investing in Grogs just yet - maybe someone else will have a few points for them? Here are my initial thoughts:
50 build points
13 pts Teacher Com 3, good communicator, Teaching 6, Magic Theory 4 Q20 when teaching, can also set up labs (up to refinement 1)and learn other skills to teach.
6 pts Forge Companion Sculpt 6, stonemason 5. Building Category: save 4 lbs/year up to 50%. When not acting as a forge companion, can build/maintain the covenant.
1pt Forge Companion Sculpt 1, stonemason 1. Building Category: save 2 lbs/year up to 50%. When not acting as a forge companion, can build/maintain the covenant.
4 pt Venditor Profession (sailor) 4, Profession (Merchant) 4. 3lbs per/year, can apply to almost any category. Provides added value to any trade good by transporting to a better market. More importantly, provides a trusted outlet to both purchase and sell without worrying if our charter is going to “disappear”. He might also be our primary contact off the island, so we should consider either spending more points on social skills, or teaching him in game. Alternately we can save 4 pts and create him as a companion.
10 pts Vis Source – body of Waltonus 2 Vim/year (Waltonus had a personal Vis source that continues after his death – will need to preserve/store the body. We literally have a skeleton in the closet!) (hopefully this is in addition to whatever sources Silveroak has planned for us. If all we get are those we buy, I'll likely bump this up a little).
7 pts 35 pawns vis reserve (TBD)
5 pts for skill 1 general specialists (2 lbs savings each, choose specific type and category at creation) 10 lbs/year (probably spread across as many categories as possible)
4 pts reserved for communal goals such as ancient magic tractatus
Silveroak - This is the first time doing this, am I on a decent track, or setting myself for something?
Some questions:
I believe it was stated that we would have some training post-gauntlet. I am unclear on what rules that will use, and what range of ages we can reasonably have. (If that post-gauntlet is with the explorers, would that mean we need to have the resolution on what is in "covenant" and our 50 pt. spend in order to do the advancement?)
For the 50 points, there was mention that roots are cheap in terms of vis. How much vis, and what L/Q of book is a root? (I tried looking in covenants, and while it talks about roots in 9 arts, it does not say which arts or what the L/Q is other than it is for starting.) Also, if we want to use vis for better books (since by points they are VERY expensive, is there any guideline for that?
Also, if we want to use points to have a talisman, how would that be calculated? Presumably we can open one aspect for each enchantment we pay for after the base cost for the talisman. (A very reasonable answer is that talisman should be made in play.)
cost: 2lbs silver per year
cost:2-3 lbs silver/yr point cost is actually 11 points
this is not even remotely a forge companion, as a specialist it would cost 2lbs silver/yr
this should definitely be built as a companion
the setup states you cannot buy vis sources or sources of income, only stores.
this is a good idea
a skill 1 specialist will save 1.5 lbs and cost 2 lbs per year, with a net -1/2 lb a year loss
part of the point here is for you to choose the tractus. Also given the situation we are in, staff will be in short supply (though the ones which do come along are more loyal...), and it would be better to make the characters than paying points for them. That being said, you have people who will generally cost more money, but no reserves of silver- remember this covenant starts with no starting income...
realistically, probably under 100 years post gauntlet. You have a choice of doing the standard 30/yr advancement or by season with the caravan. If you want to play a mage who joined the caravan post gauntlet you can do 30/yr until you joined then switch to seasonal. If you are going to do seasonal advancement you will need to wait until build points are spent.
Aside from roots prices will follow the guidelines in covenants, roots are L6Q15, and cost 2 pawns of vis apiece. Price may vary depending on the final location of the covenant.
points cannot be used for a talisman. Talismans are personal, not covenant property, and should be made in seasonal work during pregame advancement or in the lab after the game begins.
the 9 arts in this world which have recognized roots are Creo, Perdo, Rego, Animal, Aquum, Aurum, Ignem, Terram, and Vim. There may be books which are simply considered vain and not a standard for other arts which are effective as roots.
One final point- a lot of my 'background' points will be spent on things like generally useful summae that the caravan had which other participants took with them when they left, so those who are building characters with experience done while on the caravan should not worry too much about spending points on background basics...
Thanks Silveroak. 100 years post gauntlet is significantly more than I want. I do want to play the development.
I like the idea of doing a bit at 30 pts / year, and then switching to seasonal.
Is it reasonable to spend 9 yearss at 30 pts / year, split between magic theory, Creo, and Corpus? That would push Creo and Corpus well past 20 (if I start at 52xp in the arts, and 94xp in magic theory, with affinity I could get to 8 Magic Theory (that 26 xp) and 22 in Creo and Corpus (118p each) with 8 xp left over. Then join the caravan for season, starting with lab work and make a longevity potion for 1 year and then probably 10 more years. I could up the duration of seasonal if everyone wants to start even further advanced.
Some requests for ideas from other folks.
- I am looking at taking personal vis source. I would like to to be Creo. Any suggestions what a reasonable source would be (this is an aspect I have trouble getting my head around).
- What sots of animals fit well with a healer? I was originally thinking of snakes, as in Apollo. But the books says Snakes are associated with Perdo, which is going to be my weak technique, so that seems a bad fit.
I will have to look more carefully at where I want to spend my points at least:
how much is a better Rego summa, in vis? Also a better Vis summa would seem useful, as I need to get that up to manage the warping when I start experimenting. (Paying for those two in straight points would get very expensive.
And what sort of herbam would be available for 2 or 3 pawns of vis?
Will your basics also include some of the magical oriented abilities? What about non-magical abilities? If we want to buy non-magical books, what L/Q might be available, for how much silver?
(Sorry, this is getting long as I think of things.)
For a minor focus, would healing cover longevity? Or would improving people cover longevity as well? I hope the former is acceptable. Longevity potions by themselves seems even narrower than is required for a minor focus.
This would be reasonable
a sound summae (level+quality between 28 and 31) costs a number of vis equal to the level. Tracti cost 1 vis for quality of 8, 2 vis for quality 11- these are of course a general guideline, other qualities of tracti are available.
A couple of tracti, maybe a vain summae
I don't want to get too specific about what my backgrounds will cover, but they will cover (at least some) non magical abilities that relate to magic.
quick correction- tracti are 1 pawn for quality 11 and 2 pawns for quality 14.
I wanted communal input before defining ancient magic points. When the build points are finalized, there will be a specific choice.
How do we got money with build points? I have not seen any conversion rate, unless you are using the 1bp/pawn and 10 lbs/pawn (1bp for 50 lbs)? Regardless, I was also planning on taking Personal Vis Source, and one of the first things Tartessos would have done is the Midas Touch ritual to get absurd quantities of gold. He reserved half to make casting tools (gold bling on a chain suits his personality), and spending 2 lbs per year still leaves him with a lot of gold. I was planning on making that available to the covenant as long as we abide by the 2lb/mage/tribunal rule. I was also planning on purchasing several Items of Quality and magic items at the standard Verditius 3 to 1 rate. More on this to come when I finalize a build.
Lastly, 100 years, WOW. I was planning on eight years after gauntlet, which really left me hurting for the necessities. I think I'll revise my estimates and think a little more ambitious. You mentioned earlier that you did not wish any Mystery Cult initiations at start. Would you be willing to revise that if we built experienced characters who sacrifice seasons to be initiated? Same for familiars?
Apologies about the formatting - I need to spend XP on my formatting-fu.
There's a rule in the Wealth chapter of Covenants.
I'm personally still thinking hard about the BP. I'm very tempted to, like, waste them on something cool-but-probably-not-worth-it, like a version of the Canon of Medicine in the original language (yes, I plan to specialize my laboratory towards texts so I can provide y'all with translations without quality loss, and I have the Area Knowledge for Persia), but that would probably be rude to the rest of the covenant, given the fact that I could spend the points on more worthwhile things.
As for Experience, yeah, wowza, I was really not thinking in terms of decades of post-apprenticeship experience. I mean, I could adjust for that, but... huh. I'm not sure what I would do with that exactly, actually - I had planned for this character to sort of evolve away from her original concept, in whichever way the campaign seemed to lead her, but post-apprenticeship character creation tends to favour a lot more stasis. Maybe I'll just throw on a couple of more years to get some essentials - as is, she can't even spontaneously cast a level 5 spell (unless it's, like, Rego Terra, and even then she'd have to be lucky). I guess post-apprentice time would be a good way to make sure she's actually useful for other things than standing amidst the roar of a surf-tormented shore or pondering over quaint and curious volumes of forgotten lore. Maybe I'll also pick up some Area Knowledge for, like, some of the centers of Arabic scholarship, so I can provide us with more Lovely Books in the future. Could even pick up Greek.
Sounds like we should aim for 15 to 20 years post gauntlet. I rather like 15 personally.
Joel -
I saw that you were interested in a Creo PVS (as was I). If I change mine to Rego, could we have traded sometime in the past? I would have needed some Creo to do the Midas Touch ritual, but for my other purposes any type would do.
Kuiti: Yes, within reason I am happy to have traded some Creo for Rego Vis in the "past". How much were you thinking of? Also, if we are going to be 15 years past gauntlet, I presume all of the magi will need longevity potions.
You underestimate the dedication of a faerie-blooded maga whose player wants to use Fertility Magic.
Also, what do you guys think about the book thingy? Is it worth it at all, having a collection of rare or excellent mundane books, or should I invest in more immediately useful resources?