aspergers syndrome in ars magica?

How is aspergers syndrome be handled in game & out of game as well?
I figure that it is related to the gift of magic in game myself.

Well, what we consider Asperger's syndrome is an autism spectrum disorder - from just mildly quirky behavior to full-on near-catatonia. I'd recommend just building it out of existing merits and flaws.

Note that the one that comes closest to savant-like autism is...I think it's actually called Savant. Basically it's a flaw that grants a hyper-optimized version of Puissance [Ability] and Affinity with [ability] - (I think it's +3 and doubling the XP, or something like that), at the expense of halving your XP in all other abilities.

Toned down slightly - If we go by the wiki description ( - "poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness", you can probably re-create it with a low Dexterity/Agility, low Com, an affinity with a given Ability, and a minor or major Personality trait. ("Compulsive").

That being said, I do agree that Hermetic Wizards do tend to exhibit Asperger's-like behavior. IMO - mainly that's due to a combination of the social effects of the Gift, as well as min-maxing on the part of players: the system tends to reward specialists, so most players I've talked to design that way. And physical coordination isn't necessary for being a wizard (although Stamina is), so Dex and Agility tend to be dump stats.

Which ends up giving you a bunch of socially-awkward, clumsy, hyper-specialists. Yep, that sounds like Asperger's to me.

To be honest, I think that you actually need to sit down and think first before you post questions like this on the forum. And when you have taken a moment or two to think. Do it again for another 20 times to see if you really should post the question, before you actually post it.

very funny.
I was being serious about the topic!

Why do you think they're joking?

Because he is giving them the benefit of the doubt. The only other option is to think that they are being cruel and insensitive.
Post on Ray. don't listen to the haters. It is they who have a problem, not you.

Quite true kind sir, quite true

The reason that I urged you to consider your post before your posting is that there might be people who has such disabilities like Asbegers or have relatives with it, who might not want to see it be made into a mere game mechanic. I have nothing against you asking questions, but some questions can sometimes be close to home.

So it was not a "hate" message.

But then again it is hard to know the intent of what people mean on the internet, if they are trolling or if they are just wishing well. So most often, if they can, people read in a hostile tone in things they read. Which is unfortunate.

As Dunia points out, there actually is another option; people can be legitimately concerned about the topic itself being handled in a cruel and insensitive manner. It would be like being asked to tread lightly with questions of how to represent race in Ars Magica.

Isn't the Flaw Social Handicap built for things like this? It's left general. The examples don't restrict it from being different from them.

Really? You are worried about offending someone with Asburgers Syndrome?
Well let me introduce you to my friend Abe. He does have Asburgers, and you people pick on him all the time. And frankly I am getting sick of it and am tired of the elitist snob additude.
Free speech is sacrosanct.

Free speech is not what you think it is, Marko. We have the right to speak out mind, too. Free speech is not freedom from consequences. Abe can and should continue to post. He could easily post in a dedicated thread or two as he has been more than willing to do in the past.

I don't think this kind of question should be censored. Virtues and flaws, as a game mechanic, exists to implement differences between people into the game, so that we have a diversity of options to create/develop a character. One wanting to explore a character with asperger syndrome is as valid as a character who is blind, crippled, genius, well articulated, transvestite or giant-blooded. All the other examples already exist in the system.

Excluding a type of character to avoid offending their real life counterparts would be saying "[such people] are too vulnerable, we must (over)protect them". I say we should accept their differences and accept to implement them in the system. Of course, it should be done seriously, not as a caricature.

Races are represented with the "Outsider" flaw.

Ars Magica is a game that's never been afraid to say things as they are. In fact, unfairness (though not handled in an insensitive way) is kinda the basis of the game and setting. You could pretty much ask this of any character in Ars: Were you lucky enough to get the totally random and very rare Gift, or were you born with the right parents (and correct gender if "right parents" means nobles)? If you said no to the above questions, congratulations! You're part of the downtrodden majority and you can never accomplish anything no matter how hard you try!

In my view, finding a realistic, non-caricatured way to represent Aspergers shouldn't be any different than needing the Outsider Flaw if you're Jewish or African, or being unable to get formally educated if female, or being insulted by your peers if you've accurately represented your Int -5 at the local Tribunal. As long as the mechanics are honest, mechanically fair, and mostly accurate (and trust me, they aren't always; I've played two games that gave females direct stat penalties :neutral_face:) it shouldn't honestly matter if the in-game result would offend modern sensibilities.

Trolls also deserve free speech. It does not mean I have to listen to them, nor does it mean the forum has to tolerate them.

Unless you believe Atlas Games is some sort of Government, your rant has no value.

Free speech has a place ever ware even online!

As of matter of fact, yes I am worried about offending people. All I wanted to say to Abe was that when it comes to things that might be sensitive, it is always better to reconsider ones post one or more times and to look at the language one is using. As you, Marko clearly showed - people can be offended for what another person writes with a good intent as something of a hate message. It was not meant as an elitist snobbish thing. But from personal experience - I know that I am not the best person in the english language as English is my 5th language and I may sometimes choose words that I think is correct but can be read as unnecessary harsh or superior or dominant.

Some topics do hurt people, a few months ago, Silveroak was quite hurt and insulted on these threads because people said things he did not like and it turned ugly. And I know that I posted a few things there, which might have insulted his believes, so yes, I am worried when certain topics come up and it is always better to err on the side of caution.

I never said in my post that Abe was inferior in my eyes, nor that he was not allowed to post. But on many foums to various games and hobbies. People can easily get offended, uch because the lack of verbal tones and/or Facial/Body language as you type it.

So please stop trolling me when I just wanted to be kind to Abe. And next time, you can always PM me and ask me what I mean or ask me to rephrase what I write.


Sure Abe, but you have to accept the consequences.

Some of your ideas are refreshingly naive. Once in a while it is fun to read.

Other posts are just empty. This is why people will ask you to make an effort.

If you want us to listen to you, you have to listen to us.

ok, I always try to be nice, I just don't always succed in it that's all.