A few questions about Awakened devices (from the Heron chapter of Ancient Magic).
They have access to the "powers" of Automatons (Mystery Cults), which includes implanted skills. They can also learn. If they are improving an implanted skill, do they start where the skill leaves off, or from zero?
One of the "powers" of Automatons that Awakened devices can make use of is improved stats. Can the mental stats be improved once the device is awakened? I would say no, but it's fuzzy.
The example given of an Awakened device (the bird in the Heron chapter) has virtues, two of them supernatural (if memory serves). How would the creator add virtues to his awakened device?
The Awakened device can be made into a familiar. All the "off brand" familiars have extra stuff dealing with the three cords, and I don't see why Awakened devices would be different. The first cord is easy, bonus to twilight rolls, as per spirit familiars (Mysteries). The second cord is fuzzy, but I think it's strength adding to Hubris is a good fit. Awakened devices are natural familiars for Verd., and this keeps Hubris in play for them. But nothing comes to mind for the third cord. Any ideas?
Just some thoughts for a lazy Sunday afternoon. Thanks.
I did not find the source for learning, but it would make sense that they progress further on base of their existing skills. It uses the base of the awakened being after all and a buy system akin to character creation.
No, here is a difference I missed in the other post: They use a character creation system based on their might. So no I guess.
Buy buying them during character creation as described at Am p. 78. ^^
They like the personality trait(s) might not (all) be in the creator's controll.
That's a difficult one. One the onehand it is stated that:
"Anima cannot be made into familiars." AM p. 78 at the end.
On the other hand it says:
"Awakened devices can be made into familiars but this requires the magus to awaken the device himself." AM p. 80.
But Anima are awakened devices... .
Well considering that you need at least two, possibly three breakthroughs (and none of them minor either) I would say an awakened familiar (if you allow them) would be the envy of the whole house.
Some further thoughts: One could interpret the 'contradiction' as "An anima created by ancient Heron (skill) cannot be made into a familiar.
An anima made by the researched Virtues can. But only by the Magus who created it."
As for the bonds:
The golden Cord/Spirit: Maybe something more mechanical... like due the material nature of his familiar the magus gains the strength of this cord as a strong-willed bonus, becoming more mechanical and unmovable in her nature.
The silver Cord/Mind: Maybe slightly too strong and limiting. A magus with a max. cord strength of +5 might gain a hefty +5 to his works but if he already has a hybris score of say 6 it would become 11. This is a personality score to rival a god (say in arrogance). Reduce it to bond score times 5 temporary xp?
The bronze Cord/Body: Since anima do not suffer fatigue: The magus gains the strength of this bond on his rolls to withstand fatigue, injury and aging. It is also applied to his soak rolls. However this does not help him when casting a spell.
Thanks for your thoughts! I missed the point buy system for them. What page is that on? As to the silver cord, it's not that bad. Silver cord adds/subtracts from personality traits, so it counters Hubris in canon. I thought that a mage who had an Awakened device as a familiar would have discovered it "in game", which should strengthen his Hubris. That (adding silver cord to Hubris) was my solution. Since Silver cord subtracts from Hubris, it becomes a wash. As to the bronze cord, all familiars do that now. I was looking for something "different", not that I have any real idea what it would be.
It is mentioned on p. 78, in the middle, I believe. In effect it allows you to buy its characteristics/virtue and so on by its might and redirects you to ArM p. 30. I would rather use RoP: Magic for this, starting with the "magical thing virtue".
If it learns it would learn like a magical creature though (also RoP: Magic).
Ah but as I read it there is no way to bind a discovered awakened device. Only the magus who created one (after the breakthroughs) can bind it.
Um no. The standard familiar does not help you withstand fatigue (anymore) (ArM p. 104).
How about moving that part into an independant reputation instead? "Heir of Heron" - ad all Might Scores as Xp point to it. It inspires great awe and envy within House Verditius (beyond the XP for the breakthroughs the storyguide might asign and provided it becomes known). You could use the reputation actively to cow/impress other Verditius, but depending on their Hybris their envy might also incite vendettas.
Ah, I see. You are coupling the Anima mystery to the Awakened devices mystery. I was not. In my reading, Awakened devices is a stand alone mystery, one I have a source of inspiration for (in game). While the flavor text implies knowledge of the mystery Devices of Heron, the mystery does not require it. All you can do if that's what you've done is make automaton variants, but that's fine with me, I just need to fill it out a little, thus my questions. As to the familiar point, sorry I was not clear, when I said discovered, I meant discovered by Breakthrough. The reputation should happen anyway, I can't see researching this Breakthrough and not entering it in the Contest! But Hubris is a core problem for Virt., they shouldn't be able to "game" it away by pumping up their Silver cord bond.
Ok (I'll keep both topics to one thread). In that case it begs the question what can you "awake"?
I would argue that without the incorporation you cannot awake automata. That is the main point of the third breakthrough to me. Nor can you create mutable devices of course, which is the second breakthrough. Do you plan to awake invested devices? I have no idea if this would is possible.
You can research awakening as a standalone, but is it any use unless you (or another maga) researched the other?
Should you win the contest you would have to hand in your contribution.. as it is awakened this is a cruel thing. It is sentinent after all, while automata are not.
I haven't considered that exploit.
Go with your own idea I say.
From the other thread:
But it is. The finish, the cherry on top, the additional honour. Worth a mastership or archmastership (possibly) for itself.
And of cause as it combines the hermetical virtue awakening with automata you could awake an automata!
Maybe even an ancient and powerful one.
Yep, that's what the mystery (Awakened device) does in my reading, awaken invested devices. Very useful, if expensive, as an intelligent trigger. The rules that follow make a very nice replacement for Automatons, to the point that many on this board have replaced the Automaton rules with the Awakened device rules. No skill, no repair, and a mind is sweet. I would require the Breakthrough to allow that, but I don't like the pyramid idea you are suggesting. It makes lots of sense, but I don't want to incorporate Devices of Heron or Mutable items into my "world". They are world changing in a way that Awakened devices are not. Awakened devices are expensive in vis and money, and they have personalities, which fits well into the Virt. feelings about their "children". I dream of replacing the lost house mystery of Automatons with a new house mystery, Awakened devices, putting paid to the wound the traitor did us. The other two mysteries would hurt the House, and I don't want to do that, which has affected my reading, I'm sure. You have some great ideas, now I'll have to figure out how to work around them.
