Basic weapon and armor enchantments?

I have tried to find a good way to handle basic weapon damage-enchantment and armor soak-enchantments for our saga.

The refferences I can find to such effects in the official material is these two spells:

The guidelines the spells are using, reads seens to be the following:

So the question is how can one improve these spells for higher effects?

I would suggest something like this for a general comment (or improvement) for the muto-terram-guidelines.

New Muto-Terram Guidelines

Level 2 (+2 =Level 4): Improve a metal weapon, so that it does +1 additional damage.
Level 3 (+2 =Level 5): Improve a metal weapon, so that it does +2 additional damage.
Level 3 (+2 =Level 10): Improve a metal armor, with +1 additional Soak-Value.
Level 4 (+2 =Level 10): Improve a metal weapon, so that it does +3 additional damage.
Level 4 (+2 =Level 10): Improve a metal armor, with +2 additional Soak-Value.
Level 5 (+2 =Level 15): Improve a metal weapon, so that it does +4 additional damage.
Level 5 (+2 =Level 15): Improve a metal armor, with +3 additional Soak-Value.
Level 10 (+2 =Level 20): Improve a metal weapon, so that it does +5 additional damage.
Level 10 (+2 =Level 20): Improve a metal armor, with +4 additional Soak-Value.
Level 15 (+2 =Level 25): Improve a metal armor, with +5 additional Soak-Value.

Doing some googeling, I found this page, with suggestions for even more improvements. Such as increasing Attack and Defence bonuses (with rego-effects instead of muto).

http://germanitas.org/rpg/insula/rules-armour.html

Any comments or suggestion, for how to make complete fifth edition guideline-collection for doing, simple weapon, armor and shield improvements?

Is allowing such enchantments- and buffing-effects in conflict with in game physics- or balancing-perspective?

Suggested New Rego-Terram Guidelines

Level 2 (+2 =Level 4): Improve a metal weapon, with +1 additional attack/defence value.
Level 3 (+2 =Level 5): Improve a metal weapon, with +2 additional attack/defence value.
Level 4 (+2 =Level 10): Improve a metal weapon, with +3 additional attack/defence value.
Level 5 (+2 =Level 15): Improve a metal weapon, with +4 additional attack/defence value.
Level 10 (+2 =Level 20): Improve a metal weapon, with +5 additional attack/defence value.

I am also aware of the rules for craftmanship found in the City Guilds supplement (Pg. 69-70) for "Excellent Quality Items". That can increase the Attack and Defence statistics for a weapon and soak value of an armor, quite considerable through mundane means.

If one allows mundane quality-improvements to items, is there any problems involved in allowing magical improvements to the same statistics as well?

So that one can have a magical enchanted swords, crafted by a famous weapon-smith doing f.eks. +10 Attack/Defence? (+5 from Excellent Quality / +5 from Magical Enchantment)

Thing is, in Ars Magica, magic generally deals damage through a medium.

the speals you give are (as I understand) the limits of how much a sword can be improved by making it more "sword-y"*

Adding damage beyond this generally means adding a damaging medium to the weapon - make it blaze with flames or flow with poison.

Direct damage without a medium is the province of Perdo magics.
One could add to a sword a R: Touch version of the Wound that Weeps, (ArM5, p. 133) that simply inflicts a light wound to every (humanoid) body touched by the blade. It wouldn't even need to get through soak.
And it would be in addition to whatever wound was inflicted directly by the blade.

I'f afraid the idea of simply making the sword more "sword-y" for more damage is a bit of a D&D-ism

  • Exception! Items of Quality, hoH: MC, p. 124-125 makes absolutely awesome magical swords!

You might also consider ReTe effects to make the weapon more agile/hit harder, PeTe(An,He) or MuTe(An,He) to slice through armour easily, ReCo for knockback, specific status PeCo effects such as broken bones to disable the enemy faster or mentem effects to stop the enemy fighting back effectively. Don't forget penetration.

Armour could have InFo effects to help you know what's incoming and defend better, ReFo to deflect, stop or even reflect weapons, PeFo to destroy weapons, CrCo and ReCo to help survive and keep going despite wounds, MuCo to make the wearer faster, stronger, tougher and of course MuIm so you always look good.

Yes, that is nice enough, and even more effective (since these spells/enchantments will have to have penetration to be effective against beeings with magic resistance anyway)

But the question is, where is the limits of the posible improvements (or where is it reasonable to set them) to damage/soak that one can make with for instance Muto-Terram effects?

If you can make the sword both sharper and harder, and give it a total of +3 damage-bonus (With "Edge of the Razor" and "Hardness of Adamadite"), why not even more sharp or hard with an even more powerfull effect? After all it should be posible to at least imangine a very, very sharp edge, made of a very, very hard steel or other material.

Of course it is, but a bit of innocent D&D-inspired +bonuses, isn't without its qualities if one find the right flavour to wrap them in. After all a great companion with +12 Hackmaster sword, or some shield grogs with +5 swords of dragonslaying, shouldn't ruin the rest of the Ars Magica feeling that much.

Thank you for the tip :slight_smile:

A lot of good suggestions here, but I like it simple, and at least somewhat fair to the opponent. So effects that just have to much trickery with them, isn't what I am after in this thread.

But I loved the idea of a sword that sliced through the opponents armor as it was butter (in game mechanics ignores armor soak).

Any ideas and design for such a MuTe(An,He)-effect?

Defence-wise, any thoughts regarding what level and/or bonus one should give such intellego effects that helps one know what's comming ?

I will save the ideas about defences that destroys weapons for creating monster powers, after my players have created their fancy melee weapons.

Honestly, I disagree categorically with that statement... but that's my saga, not yours. :slight_smile:

That said, I think that your guidelines are not altogether unreasonable. An amazing master craftsman, with a primary characteristic of +5, a Craft ability of 12, a optimized workshop and an assistant can produce an exceptional item which would give a +4 bonus. A skilled magus probably ought to be able to do something similar using magic.

I have seen Obliration of the Metallic Barrier (ArM5, p. 155) used for this purpose, though obviously it would need requisites to affect non-metal armour.

Hmm... But that is a bit to violent. Slicing through the armor unharmed, as it never existed is how you do it with style!

After some quick searching I found a spell-suggestion, on the: The Net Wizard's Grimoire: http://spellswiki.wikidot.com/muto-terram

I would suggest a power like this enchanted in a sword:

Through armor - as through butter
MuTe(An)(He)20
R: Touch, D: Momentary, T: Part
Req: Animal, Herbam
The armor (or other material weaker than metal) touched by this sword becomes soft as butter, so that a determined blow will pass through it and damage the beeing inside as if the armor (or material) never existed. After a few moments the armor (or material) hardens again, leaving no evidence of the sword's passing.
(Base 4, + Touch, +1 Part, +2 Affect Metal)

I am uncertain how this can be constructed like a spell with duration, since it is the armor (or the material you are striking) which needs to be targeted and not the sword.

I think that to deal with magic resistance you want to develop enchantments that don't have to penetrate the opponent.

For instance use Muto Corpus to make the wielder faster or stronger.
For a classical touch enchant the sword so that the wielder does not bleed.
Put in a rego mentem spell that makes the wielder ignore distractions when fighting (give them fewer boptch dice and perhaps a small bonus to attack or defense but a huge penalty for noticing anything aside from the creature that they're fighting, I like this as it can screw over the wielder and that can be fun.

Alternately you can enchant effects that do target the opponent but won't stop your weapon from hitting home, such as perdo corpus, mentem or animal spells that activate when hitting someone in combat.

My players asked questions about this too, so I expanded the Insula rules a little:

URL http://ironboundtome.wordpress.com/ars-magica/arm-house-rules/rules-for-enchanted-arms-and-armour/. Increasing soak, reducing load, sharpening and modifying the materials, etc.

Then also tried to craft a few specialised spells when seemed appropriate:

and

I think someone mentioned enchanting it into a mace?

A) Remember penetration!
B) What, no extra magnitudes for requisites?
C) This would probably have to be done with momentary duration /as you've done already) and many (preferbly infinite) uses per day, activated on each strike.

A Mace of Armor Smashing? In that case I am sold :slight_smile:

A) Yes, yes... it might not be the most effective weapon against Supernatural beeings. :frowning:

B) It only screws up your labtotal, when you create it, the requsites are nescescary for the effect, but do not ad anything to it, to qoute the Core Rulebook: pg. 115:

C) +10/levels for unlimited uses then, which gives us a total level of 30? And then we can use the rest of our lab-total for penetration. Maybe it would be worth giving the weapon a mentaly activated command, so that we can use it as a normal weapon against supernatural creatures or beeings with magic resistance.

But that's the point.
Contrary to, say, Eyes of the Cat, or Wizard's Leap, the requisites aren't nescessary for the effect to work. Without them, the sword will cut through Metal armor, but not through wooden shields or Leather armor. Adding them allows your sword to do more.

It does add the ability to affect non-metal armor, ie. leather armor or the quilted cloth padding worn under chain.
Looking at the armor types on p. 176 (of ArM5), that's atleast half of the options given.
So yes, that rather enhances the spell's effect.

hmm.. I lean towards agreeing with you both.

Even though I fail a bit to see the why Wizard's Leap don't ad magnitudes, since it the obviously let you teleport more things than yourself nude.

It becomes a hard choice then, the ability to slash through every barieer like butter, or just through metal-protection.

Any thoughts on how it will be to deffend aganst this? Since it will slash through a defenders sword and shield as well, when he tries to block you?

So with requisites added, we look at sword with a power like this:

Through armor - as through butter
MuTe(An)(He)40
Pen +0, Unlimited uses/day
R: Touch, D: Momentary, T: Part
Req: Animal, Herbam
The armor (or other material weaker than metal) touched by this sword becomes soft as butter, so that a determined blow will pass through it and damage the beeing inside as if the armor (or material) never existed. After a few moments the armor (or material) hardens again, leaving no evidence of the sword's passing.
(Base 4, + Touch, +1 Part, +2 Affect Metal, +2 Requisites, +10 levels unlimited uses per day)

Of course the maze of (armor)smashing will be easier to create:

Armor Smashing Strike
Pen +0, Unlimited uses/day
PeTe(An)(He)35
R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind
Shatters an armor or weapon made of metal or of a weaker material, so that its pieces falls broken and useless to the ground.
(Base 5, +1 Touch, +1 size, +2 Requisites, +10 levels unlimited uses per day)

Alternativly one can keep the rego effect for extra damage, and just make it usefull against metal armors.

It would be nice to have a way to turn the effects both in the sword and in the maze on and off, any suggestion on how to handle that? A command word seems a bit tricky to time the right way when you strike, and it wound not be very elegant to look at. Maybe the effect will only actvate if the weapon is used in a certain manner? Any thoughts?

for me that is too much fine tuning considering how the combat/damage mechanics work in Ars Magica. The effect is one that 2negates armor". It does not matter if it made of leaves, steel or floating cushions: the sword slices through them. As such I would add the requisite for other materials, but this would NOT increase the level.

The requisites are there for when you try to do something SIGNIFICANTLY different with the effect. Slice throug armor and make the person drop everything due to a cramp in his touched extremity, or an additional Medium would to whatever the sword does. Or turn the armor into something flamable. Not for minor differences between metal leather and diverse fabrics.

Otherwise each Requisite decision is a MAJOR pain in the ass when designing spell effects and adds complexity in a system that is already complex enough.

YMMV :slight_smile:

Cheers
Xavi

Most of these would have to be designed as second effects.
Spells/effects do 1 (one) thing - if you want multiple things done, use multiple spells/effects.

My orignial thought as well, for example if we look at the orignial "Obliteration Of The Metallic Barrier"-spell (on pg. 155):

Here the requisite quite clearly makes the effect diffrent and increases the effect of the spell. (and of course it also make the spell more fun to use).

So in the end this must be a troupe-/storyguide-call with the right amount of fingerspitzengefühl, to find a balance-point between fun and perfect rule-consistency.

A few companions/grogs with some hefty or elegantly constructed combat gear, will just be a nice spice for the saga, so in my group I don't think we would loose any sleep over ruling on the side of fun. Even though discussing the later can be a nice and creative excercise as well.