That is what I am begging for.
Begging!
Please let it go.
I have been cranky and harsh. I apologize. This is why I prefer to let others make judgments on things (such as Prince of Boredom as the Prawn of Balance and Fixer as Rules Shark). I try to stay neutral, but when pressed I turn into a dick and make harsh proclamations.
So that is where the seeming on inconsistency comes from.
i still don't like this character though.
The dragon was in the caves of entropy, on the faerie side, and was defined, at the time, as a faerie dragon.
even if it performed artificial insemination, the faerie influence would have resulted in a character with strong faerie blood.
If we need to be rid of this character we can simply say his/her faerie heritage was stronger still and she became full faerie and disappeared shortly after fleur examined her/him. It's the whole going back and rewriting that annoys me- well partially.
The other part is that, as I said Markus fought really hard to argue that Epona was pregnant at the time, despite the mundane impossibility of this. I assumed at the time that this would mean he had some plans for the child as a plot device or character. When it became obvious he did not and was actively and vigorously opposed to the kind of character that was implied by the conception he fought so hard for, It reminded me on a level I wasn't quite consciously thinking about, of another GM who seemed to think it was funny to have female characters inconvenienced by pregnancy.
It was the same guy who raped my SO while she was in college, so that was a lot of rage coming through.
And yes, I am tired, very tired, of getting what appears to be a ruling, proclamation, or in this case an argument and insistence that things have to be one way from you Marko and then a few months later you change your mind and go the other way with it, wanting to simply rewrite the past because you can't be bothered to use the search function on the forums.
I still think this is a good character, and prefer it to Rilcheaux, and the fact is that nobody else has actually expressed a problem with it, and I would like to know what the problem you have is instead of simply a denial and trying to rewrite the history behind the character so it can't happen.
It wasn't. I searched for "fae" with the search function. It pinged once on the first page. A mention of Faerie and Magic Reigo's and being mixed together. The next reference is at the very last post of page three, well after the dragon's antics and after crossing a Regio barrier. I continued the search through the entire thread and didn't see anything indicating a Fae dragon. Finally, its was a dragon using Fertility magic, since the kid can give insight, if I remember right. Its chthonic magic. I'm betting you guessed it was Faerie due to its interests, but chthonic actually fits better, IMO.
this post defined where we were going as being faerie- the region of the troglodytes. The mixture of magic and faerie occurred after we reached the false covenant, and Epona was not with us at the time. Beyond which if this is the issue and he wants her rewritten with a strong connection to magic instead of faerie, I can work with that, faerie versus magic isn't the real issue here, at least not from my perspective.
Scroll up and back a page even. I have rewritten nothing. The dragon happened before you encountered the faeries. The dragon mezmerized and hypnotized everyone except Fleur, since she was protected by Parma. The dragon made everyone fertile, except Fleur with her Parma. I did have a plan at the time? but you fought me so much on the circumstances that I decidedit was better to let that plot idea die and went with the Troglodyte thing.
So there you go. I went non confrontational and buried it. Now it comes back to haunt me.
And if you would have made the character a Grog it would have flown under the radar and I would have let it slide.
You know what. Idon't care anymore. I wash my hands of it. Let the Troupe decide. I cede final authority to Prince of Boredom and Fixer. I abstain from further discussion for I feel I am doing more harm than good.
As for critiues of play style, I aways aim to improve, but it has beena slow evolution to even get to this point.
One more thing thogh. The dragon kitten was not the work of Azaxaza. The father is Maurice. Maurice is the cousin of Vibria and son of Sigmundo. Sigmundo is a scion of SuGarr, as is Azaxaza, so they are related.Maurice has earned to shape change, and can take the forms of aman and a red cat. Felecia is a Story Flaw. Invoking that, I toyed with the idea of her having kittens by Cidito or Maurice. I figured a dragon cat would be wicked bad ass, o I went with that. Feecia was preggers before ever visiting the cave. Reread the thread. Azaxaza said as much even. Azaxaza is not a water dragon. He is a primal force of fertiity and storms.
(the above should have included a spoiler alert)
What did I fight you on before the trogloydytes? As I recall the problem you had with the dragon was that it went to quickly...
Lets go back to the beginning on this- we have a child whose birth is clearly influenced by supernatural events and who appears to have been conceived immaculately.
given that we were clearly in a faerie regio at the time, I did assume it was faerie, but looking back I do see you mentioned a couple of magical dragons wandering about. (I went with water because I remembered discovering the serpent-dragon in a lake in the cave)
A magic influenced grog might be doable, I just needed information instead of commands and pleadings. I'm going to give this some thought, unless the troop would rather have Belinda as written.
Or given that this is magic rather than faerie I would certainly be willing to make this a potential apprentice character. We can make The gift an inherited trait so someone else doesn't snatch them up to soon...
I need to address this.I got bent out of shape for no good reason. I did have reasons, just not good ones. I can ention control issues, paradigm conflict, personal life problems, issues with flagrant sexism and faux feminism, and a plethora od other things.
But it is all BS.
My creativity is meaningless if I don't share it. The only way to do that (in this context) is to keep the game going. To do that I need to keep people playing, and for that I need to give other people the opportunity to also be creative and share.
So I was totally bogus and I apologize to everyone. And I call myself a hippocrite because I hate apologies.
So my two cents:
a) Marko intended the dragon to be magical, and the dragon fits best as magical anyway since Belinda provides insight for fertility magic if I've understood everything correctly. If we want to emphasize/include the Chthonic aspect the kid likely has some sort of "sinful" flaw or tainted virtue. Likely lecherous, but some others could fit.
b) I do think it would be silly to have the kid have no influence from the nature of conception. Regardless of if the kid is a full fledged half-dragon, or if the kid was a "test tube" baby this is Mythic Europe not a modern lab. The obvious way to represent this would be Magical Blood or Monstrous Blood, but again not the only way.
c) When it comes to the characters role in the story (s)he could end up being anything from a NPC, to a Grog, to a Companion/Magi. However, mechanically we shouldn't stick strictly to the character creation rules. They are good guidelines, but she was born in play, and with fertility magic. My suggestion would be a few balanced virtues and flaws. Add on a virtue + a flaw to represent the dragon parentage still balanced. Finally, add on whatever you think the dragon would want.
Last and Most Important: If Marko has plans for the character his ideas should trump. The character was instigated by a dragon from his story. If the dragon had plans for the kid Marko should have a chance to implement them.
I agree with all of this, I will say that the character which will be created as a result is not this character, so we once the moratorium is over it should be started over from the beginning with a dialogue about the dragon's intentions.
Or maybe, if you're interested in playing her, once the ban is lifted, you could swap Rilcheau for, say, "Melinda"?
Since Solomon will have his huge Faerie-powers detection ritual, he could conceivably detect her on his first trial, investigate, find her a useful ressource (all the more since she's so young!) and bring her to the covenant.
Time to deal with this...
The real reason I flipped out is because, the more I begged to leave this whole thing aside, the more I was met with stubborn hostility. Everything spiraled from there.
And there are many small issues that led up to that.
There is a tendency for you, Silveroak, to max out every character and to generate them unbidden. And red flags go up. This guy should have been a grog. It would have gone under the radar. The covenant cannot afford more companions.
There is also the issue of origin.
You seem to imply some sacred power to "never having laid with a man". The woman is not a virgin, there is nothing special or immaculate about her carnal history.
I also know a half dozen lesbians with children. By men. I will name them for you privately and you can facebook them to confirm what I am saying.
Anyway, what I was trying to set up was a situation where Azaxaza inspired copulation through mind control and insured the fertility of the participants.
Fleur's Parma resisted all of it.
But it affected the grogs.
Granted, I tried to use subtle language to describe the situation, for I am uncomfortable with blatant discussions of sexual activity in open forum. When it became obvious you were not accepting what I was saying, I dropped it and went with the troglodytes. I used a scene inspired by "Rama Revealed".
Ignore that tangent.
And ignore Epona. She was never pregnant after all, nor was the other girl.
Or they were both pregnant, fathered by the male grogs present.
The dragon as I designed it has powers concerning storms, fertility, and ecstatic trance (mind control). No seed transfer powers.
But that is not a big deal. If is asuages your sensabilities, and you insist on this character, we can go that route. Just don't make a special big deal about an "immaculate" conception. That bothers me.
But I must insist the Realm is Magic, not Faerie. The child does not need to be supernatural though. The father is still one of the two male grogs. We are just playing with options on how seed got from one spot to another.
And my issues were that faerie do not 'throw' grogs. Magic does, and there appeared to be an unwillingness to discuss these issues and more a tendancy to just revise- five years after the event and after Fleur has already studied a child is not the time to start saying "no the child was never actually born" if you are going to make a stand on something doing it retroactively makes it a hundred times worse.
Also we appear to have a difference in understanding of what 'immaculate' means when paired with conception. To my understanding of the term (we are talking vocabulary here, not theology) virginity is not required.
Now, as I said earlier in this thread, given that the dragon was magic and not faerie I am willing to make a grog companion, but I found it disingenuous to claim this is primarily about the number of companions characters when I was willing to dump another companion in favor of this character. If you are going to "be honest" about these issues you need to be consistent. Also as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, a child conceived through the manipulation you describe would still be strongly touched by the realm doing the manipulation. As I said, a magic character born to Epona can be a grog, but it will not be Belinda.
I am not sure what "throw grogs" refers to nor am I able to guess the meaning. I do confess I do not have the Faeries book, so the furthest I will go is Magic creatures with "faerie lipstick".
Immaculate means without fault or blemish. It has another meaning in theology.
As for consistency, that is not one of my strongest attributes :mrgreen:
But the main point holds. I begged to just leave this alone and ignore it. Everything else is tangential from there. I begged, you pressed, I snapped.
I may have been wrong, but you were being mean.
So there that is.
Back to that story.
You were not accepting my view of events, details unspoken because of comfort zone issues, so confusion and inclarity is understood. So I dumped that idea and went with the time-fozen cavern deal. And that wasn't working, so I scrapped that and went with the troglodytes.
So many months go by, and I thought the issue was forgotten. Then out of nowhere it resurfaces, and I was like "no, no, I don't want to deal with this".
But I am forced to I suppose.
It isn't fair to have two insights. I originally intended for the child to be one, and I gave you something else instead because I figured you were not accepting it and decided to trash the whole thing.
All in all though, none of it matters. The only goal in an infinite game is to perpetuate play. Nothing about this breaks anything. It is just aesthetically displeasing. To me.
So do what you want. It really doesn't matter. But I will not defend the sharacter from criticisms of others. Which will happen. I know your CharGen style.
Just stop to think about me. I am a decent fellow and I give so much. I deserve a little consideration, cooperation, and sympathy.So when I am literally begging you not to do something, keep in mind that I am doing all this out of love and it isn't a "job". Please don't make me feel like it is one.
Which further means I am allowed to be insonsistant. I am only human.
Here is the thing
Nobody else objected to this character per se. Number of companions in the game yes, but not this character. Except you.
Since you began your rant the conversation has developed to where I have said that I would not enter this character into the game but would make a magic based grog when you end the character creation moratorium.
Then you come in playing bully boy again, threatening to tear up more and more of the established history to get your way before repeating your "I give up I don't care, woe is me" routine.
You are literally beating yourself up over nothing here, which would not bother me so much except that I feel like you are bringing the rest of us and the game to the torture chamber with you. The question that really remains is whether there is a continued reason for the moratorium on new characters, whether there will be any future restrictions on characters to favor making grogs over companions, and when will the moratorium actually end.
There is nothing to "tear up". The retcon proposed is the same as ever. And the initial opposition came from another player.
But none of that matters. It is mionr, I can deal without a retcon, and it affects little at this point.
The main issue, the only issue really (for everything else is minor and was blown uo by the main issue);
The issue I have is this...
I begged you to let it go. Several times. The more I pleaded the more hostile you got.
So I am dealing with that. I asked for mercy and sympathy and I was met with hostility.
Ignoring everything else, it is that last statement that I currently have a problem with. I can move past it and get by. But please stop treating me like a machine.
You may have seen it as begging, but while the word "I beg you" was in the post it was not the tone I perceived in the overall text. The impression I got was more "respect my authoritay" mixed with "explanations, I don't need to offer no stinking explanations"
Hence I responded to the hostility I felt was directed at me.