Better example magi!

Games Discussion Ars Magica
101

A Verditius. There are risks to this concept, which I have tried to highlight.

Characteristics: Int +2, Per -1, Pre -2, Com 0, Str +2, Sta +1, Dex +2, Qik +1
Size: 1
Age: 25
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0 (0)
Confidence Score: 1 (3)
Virtues and Flaws: The Gift; Hermetic Magus; Affinity with Perdo, Large, Puissant Craft: Swordsmith, Puissant Magic Theory, Puissant Perdo, Subtle Magic, Verditius Magic*, Warrior; Deficient Creo, Feud; Oversensitive (criticisms of enchanting weapons)
Personality Traits: Brave +2, Touchy +1, Will talk at length about why magical swords aren't a bad idea +3
Reputations: None
Combat:
Dodging:
Soak: +1
Fatigue Penalties: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-6), -3 (7-12), -5 (13-18), Incapacitated (19-24)
Abilities: Artes Liberales 1 (geometry), Athletics 2 (running), Awareness 1 (in combat), Bargain 2 (swords), Brawl 2 (dagger), Charm 1 (customers), Code of Hermes 1 (selling enchanted magical items), Concentration 2 (spells), Craft: Swordsmith 4+2 (long swords), Folk Ken 1 (customers), Guile 1 (elaborate lies), Latin 4 (Hermetic terms), Magic Theory 3+2 (enchanting items), Native Language 5 (expansive vocabulary), Order of Hermes Lore 1 (Verditius), Parma Magica 1 (Ignem), Philosophaie 2 (enchanting items), Single Weapon 4 (long sword)
Arts: Cr 0, In 0, Mu 0, Pe 14+3, Re 0, An 0, Aq 0, Au 0, Co 5, He 0, Ig 5, Im 0, Me 0, Te 0, Vi 5
Twilight scars: None
Equipment: Wizardly robes, Full chainmail and sword
Encumbrance: 0 (0) or 3 (1). Note his weapons and armour do not burden him in combat
Spells known:
Cripple the Howling Wolf (PeAn 25) +18
The Wound that Weeps (PeCo 15) +23
Incantation of Milky Eyes (PeCo 30) +23
Endurance of the Beserkers (ReCo 15) +6
Winter's Icy Touch (PeIg 10) +23
Veil of Invisibility (PeIm 20) +18
Demon's Eternal Oblivion (PeVi 5) +23

Character Notes
The character is part of a long line of Verditius swordsmiths, all of whom focus on making weapons that deliver Perdo based effects. The character can use his swords as well as making them, although without magical assistance his skills are likely to be bested by a well trained shield grog.

Unfortunately his line are not the only swordsmiths in House Verditius; there is another lineage who create enchanted swords with Creo effects such as Blade of the Virulent Flame, and the two lines have been vying to prove the superiority of their blades for several generations now, occasionally via overt violence.

Magical weapons have their detractors in the Order, with some magi claiming that they are worse than useless due to their tendency to bounce off creatures with magic resistance; however, this magus will explain (at great length, if allowed to) that this is a misconception caused by those fools who put persistantly active effects on their blades. Merely being enchanted does not make a blade resisted; their swords all have an additional condition that needs to be true when the target is hit to activate the effect, so if you believe your opponent to have more penetration than the weapon can beat you simply don't active the effect. And if you didn't know...well, you've learned something.

Design Notes
The character has space for up to an additional three points of Flaws and a corresponding number of Virtues. Large and Subtle Magic could also easily be replaced for other Virtues; if large is replaced the character's size and wound ranges will need to be recalculated.

Many of the spells he knows are templates for effects to enchant into his swords, to give him Similar Spell bonuses. He should be able to produce lesser enchanted devices of most of the minor effects from gauntlet, although some of the higher level spells will need more experience before he can enchant them in a single season.

The character could be swapped for a member of the opposite lineage by swapping his Perdo Virtues and Scores for Creo linked ones, and possibly also swapping his Vim and Corpus for Terram and Muto. Swap his Perdo based spells for other spells such as Blade of the Virulent Flame and Edge of the Razor. Such a character is advised to build enchanted swords with concentration durations that can be turned off by the wielder if necessary.

Comment
Either this character or the rival line (or possibly both, although such enmity would be unusual) could fit into the Confraternity of Roland. The Feud is obviously a variant of the Verditius vendetta concept.

Deficient Creo makes it difficult for the character to have Bind Wounds at gauntlet, which isn't ideal for a combatant. It's not that far off even with their deficiency if they learns more Corpus, though (which they will probably want to do); alternatively they could acquire charged items or a magical device with the effect.

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102

I, for one, celebrate a Verditius that is not dwarf blooded...

My only recommendation would be to skip the charm 1 and guile 1 and put the 10xp into boosting either folk ken or OoH lore to 2, since bad social skills will lead to failure mostly with bad consequences.

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103

I understand why you gave him Deficient Creo, but that's the one Deficient (Technique) that affects your Longevity Ritual, you ability to heal, and your Vis extraction.

104

This doesn't make sense to me - why would getting rid of Charm and Guile reduce the risk of bad consequences in social situations? You're trading two reductions in score plus three extra botch dice when you try to use the abilities untrained for one increase in score. The three extra botch dice seem like a much bigger liability than the slightly lower score, and I wouldn't have put Folk Ken as significantly more important than Charm.

The longevity ritual I'm not too worried about - it's not uncommon to hire a specialist anyway (although it will mean he can't assist in it, so he will lose a bit of extra boost).

Vis extraction likewise - if he just generally needs "money", selling enchanted devices is likely to be more efficient (and more worthy of a Verditius), and covenmates can hopefully cover for "arrgh, we need Vim for the Aegis".

Healing is more of a problem, especially with him being at least semi designed for combat. He may well want to invest in purchasing some enchanted devices himself for Bind Wounds and Recovery bonuses (and hoping one of his covenmates can do healing rituals if required).

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105

Because, with guile in particular, trying to use it an failing has some fairly negative consequences.

You have guile 1, either you try to use it, most likely fail and end up getting some pretty negative consequences or you don't use it and it is 5 xp down the drain. Same goes with Charm 1, especially with presence -2, the odds that stress die -1 (or sometimes +0) hitting 9, the bar for success are so slim that the character in question is better off not trying.

Folk Ken is not affected by the gift when used to read people, so ends up being more useful. Plus the Verditius already has bargain, and having many social skills at 1 just means being bad at many social skills which won't really help the character, much as you won't spread all of the arts xp evenly between all the arts. Ultimately it is a game about specialists working together so it is best to let someone else in the party be charming, because they simply never will be. This is the same as for the Healing magic, let someone else in the party do it, since it is not their where their strength lies.

This happened exactly in my first Rhine Gorge game, the dwarf blooded Verditius ring maker took a lot of skills at 1 and simply kept failing, antagonising the NPCs as he jumped centre stage and make an unpleasant impression, when a grog (or the gently gifted mage) could have given a much better image of the party.

Side note: I think that Endurance of the berzerker is pretty bad as a Pers/Conc combination, since the concentration rolls are quickly very tough as soon as the mage tries to do anything more complex than walking unhurriedly. It's the kind of spell that I would encourage a player to either pick with Diam (to finish the combat on top) or touch (to use on the grog to win the fight even if it means getting cut apart in the process). But this is specifically not a criticism at you.

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106

I congratulate you for taking a flaw that hurts because it fits your character. The need to optimize is hard to overcome and I think we need more characters that have actual deficiencies.

I agree with Jank on dropping charm and guile to boost folk ken. Let others handle social interactions, bargain and folk ken are the most important social skills for a merchant.

107

I suspect that skill use is very game dependent. At one point I would have completely agreed that many 1's is simply wasted points because you will always defer to the more skilled member of the party.

Now I've been swayed somewhat by more narrative game design, PbtA moves, and so forth and want to encourage a less party centric style. More characters being forced into (at times) attempting things that they aren't good at while keeping an underlying fail forwards attitude. Plus use of the skills as sort of a life path system indicating what things the character at least sort of ok at for when it isn't an important stress situation that warrents a formal skill check.

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108

This is a discussion that i have had online on the discord in the past, i think.

But yes, it probably is play style depended/YSMV. But then failling has to be fun, because making a charm roll at stress die -4 (including the gift) is not going to leave a good impression on Baron Hugo...

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109

I certainly think it is more fun to occasionally have to deal with the side effects of the gift instead of using the vast resources possible to a covenant to always have a social grog do all the interactions.

But I agree that it does require a different form of buy in from the players on play style and the types of stories.

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110

I agree that this isn't a character who should be trying to be the face of the party, especially when talking to mundanes, but that's not the only time Charm will be useful, and you can't always outsource it. Charm 1 (along with Folk Ken 1) is "I am not completely lacking in basic social skills" - you can be agreeable to the senior magus over the covenant dining table, or avoid accidentally implying to the young magus browsing your wares at tribunal that he looks like he could use all the help in a fight he can get (as an example of a potential Charm botch - I wouldn't expect Bargain to come in until you're actually trying to agree a sale rather than just being friendly to a potential customer).

Basically I'd only give no Charm to a character where their poor social skills was an active part of the character concept (which it isn't in this case) or I really had a pressing other need for my early childhood xp.

Guile is less obligatory, in so much as I wouldn't give it to a character who was meant to be actively honest, but again, that's not particularly relevant here, and most characters will have occasions when they'd like to at least withhold information.

It's true that the character probably could have changed some of their specialities from "customers" to "magi" and been fairly close to strictly better off (assuming they have a Venditor to deal with any mundane sales), but "customers" better reflects his interests.

I'd have used a variant of Endurance of the Beserkers if I hadn't been trying to stick to corebook spells. I don't think it's as bad as you say, though - I'd count "engaging in battle whilst being hurt" as a thing the spell is designed to let you do as per pg 82 of the core Rules:

Note that, if a spell is designed to let the magus do something, doing that thing does not interfere with concentrating on the spell. This applies to spells that let the magus talk to animals, plants, or water, or to spells that let the magus run very quickly.

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111

The reason a Verditius has Charm & Guile isn't for dealing with mundanes -- they hire agents for that sort of stuff -- it's for dealing with customers. Who, presumably, have their own Parma Magica.

Three extra botch dice for using Guile untrained to tell if the grocer is lying to your Verditius about how fresh the produce is? Not a concern for starting magi. But! three extra botch dice to using Guile untrained to convince the local Quaesitor that no, of course you weren't planning to skirt the Peripheral Code in your business dealings is something a starting Verditius magus or maga should be thinking about.

(or using that Guile when your covenmates ask what your Verditius thinks about their enchantments...)

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112

It sort of is. Not this specific example, but the general case of dealing with mundanes. Things don't always go to plan. There may be something important, where the magi needs to do the speaking with mundanes.

Botch outcomes are very much up to the SGs discretion. As SG, I would tend to do a 1 botch dice outcome for someone with no skill, worse than someone with skill. I think many other SGs would have a similar thought process.

Also, there is the much higher chance of a botch, or even multi-die botch due to the extra botch die.

113

Don't you think that the quaesitor is specifically trained to tell if someone is lying to them? Their folk ken (Magi of Hermes) is going to be 5, if theyvare not just slappingbthe detect lies spell.

So odds are: veriditius will fail anyway and will now have problems for having tried to lie to the Quaesitor.

Now obviously, if the party is on board for this as a motor for adventure, great. But i would not take it as the default position.

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114

Regarding the quote in combination with Endurance of the Berzerker: one could as a generous interpretation ignore concentration checks from further wounds, bit not from "doing stuff".

115

Not so much Guile as ... Etiquette :wink:

116

Just a note: it only takes 1xp, not a score of 1 (i.e. 5xp) in an Ability to eliminate the three botch dice for untrained use.

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117

Lying to the Quaesitor with your Guile of 1 is unlikely to go particularly well, but there are degrees of bad - there's a difference between "you fail to convince the Quaesitor of your honesty and they keep peering into your affairs" (roughly equal), "the Quaesitor is pretty sure you're holding stuff back but not about the details" (small Quaesitorial advantage), "the Quaesitor is pretty sure you're lying about X" (larger Quaesitorial advantage) and "no, Quaesitor, I've never even heard of Baron Geoffroi...what do you mean, you never told me his name?" (Guile botch).

More to the point, though, lying to Quaesitors is hopefully not something he'll want to do often - but he does have this Feud going on, and it's quite possible most of the Verditius on the other side of it aren't significantly better at Guile than he is, even before you get to politely pretending to the senior Bonisagus that you find their research remotely interesting.

118

I wouldn't allow Endurance of the Beserkers to get automatic concentration success if you start trying to hold a conversation or doing star jumps, but I'd let it be useful for "I am going to fight in a standard-ish combat, including exerting on my combat rolls". From the name and the reference to you being "beserk" in the spell text, that seems to be what it's for, it's justifiable if a bit on the generous side and I'd rather a corebook spell wasn't much less actual use than it seems on first glance.

119

Oh, for goodness' sake. Just take a version of Endurance of the Berserkers with Diameter duration; it's the same level and should last long enough for any skirmish a wizard would get into. It'll still give a Similar Spell bonus for any enchantments.

3 Likes
120

Another Guernicus with a different slant. I've also gone back and edited the statistics of the previous one in light of the feedback received.

Characteristics: Int +3, Per +2, Pre -2 Com 0, Str 0, Sta +1, Dex +2, Qik 0
Size: 0
Age: 25
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0 (0)
Confidence Score: 1 (3)
Virtues and Flaws: The Gift; Hermetic Magus; Life Linked Spontaneous Magic; Faerie Blood (Goblin), Hermetic Prestige*, Improved Characteristics, Minor Magical Focus (Investigating Supernatural Effects), Sharp Ears, Skilled Parens; Meddler, Plagued by Supernatural Entity; Higher Purpose, Susceptibility to Faerie Power
Personality Traits: Determined to Help +6, Hates Goblins +2, Naive +1
Reputations: Quaesitor in Good Standing 3
Combat:
Dodging:
Soak: +1
Fatigue Penalties: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20)
Abilities: Artes Liberales 1 (ritual magic), Athletics 1 (running), Awareness 4 (searching), Brawl 1 (dodge), Charm 1 (first impressions), Code of Hermes 4 (molesting the fae), Concentration 1 (spells), Faerie Lore 2 (goblins), Folk Ken 2 (detecting lies), Guile 1 (getting access to places), Latin 4 (Hermetic terms), Magic Theory 3 (Intellego), Native Language 5 (questions), Order of Hermes Lore 1 (Tribunals), Parma Magica 1 (Mentem), Stealth 2 (sneaking)
Arts: Cr 0, In 10, Mu 0, Pe 0, Re 5, An 0, Aq 0, Au 0, Co 0, He 0, Ig 0, Im 0, Me 5, Te 5, Vi 10
Twilight scars: None
Equipment: Wizardly robes
Encumbrance: 0 (0)
Spells known:
Eyes of the Cat (MuCo 5) +1
Wizard's Sidestep (ReIm 10) +6
Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie (InMe 20) +16
Posing the Silent Question (InMe 20) +16
The Call to Slumber (ReMe 10) +11
Wielding the Invisible Sling (ReTe 10) +11
Piercing the Faerie Veil (InVi 20) +21
Sight of the Active Magics (InVi 40) +40 (F)
Circular Ward Against Faeries (ReVi 15) +16

Character Notes
This Quaesitor has been designed to be one of the House's magical investigation specialists. They are good at investigating magic that has been cast, but relatively poor at interviewing people, especially mundanes, so they are likely to want to acquire an assistant to help them with this.

When this magus was young they were kidnapped by goblins and a changling left in their place. A Guernicus saw what had happened and rescued the child. Recognising their Gift, when they were of age they took the grateful child as an apprentice. Now a magus, the character is keen to go forth and right wrongs themself!

Unfortunately, the changling the child was swapped for has not forgotten them, and has become their dark mirror. If they are going to right wrongs...well, the changeling will cause plenty of wrongs for them to right...

Customisation Notes
The character can take up to two more points of flaws and an equivalent number of Virtues. The Faerie Blood and backstory are not intrinsic to the magical investigation side of the character, so could be dropped completely if desired - if so, you will also need to swap out the score of 2 in Faerie Lore as it requires Faerie Blood to be taken before the magus becomes an apprentice. Alternatively the Faerie Blood could be upgraded to Strong Faerie Blood.

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