Blow Things Up

Games Discussion Feng Shui
1

"Will that be nitro or C-4 today, Potemkin?"
-Shadowfist Explosives Card

While starting to work on the heavy weapons from BTRC’s More Guns, I was running into problems the way FS handles explosives. Nexus the game that FS is derived from has better rules, but converting those over to FS was problematic in a few area.

In hoping that a discussion of explosives and grenades rule on the forum, may help fill in the missing gaps I’ll quickly summarize the Nexus ones, add in the 3G comments on how to handle them and mention some other things. (3G for those who don’t know is a book of weapon designed rules published by BTRC, that has a section of conversion notes so it can be used with several game systems.) First off some basic comments on weapon damage in the two systems and conversions of them are needed, before we move to explosives.

Nexus‘ damage rules and armor rules work differently from FS damage. Nexus armor gives a Penetration Resistance (PR) that is used to determine if an attack does any damage at all to a target. Armor in Nexus doesn’t give a Tgh bonus like in FS and doesn’t have the very negative penalties of FS one.
Even thought the exact way damage is applied to a character is very different in both systems, the base damage numbers of most attacks are very similar or are identical before you apply them to a character. Nexus divides attack in 2 two basic types, penetrating and impact. FS doesn’t worry about if the damage came from a club or bullet. Damage is just Damage in FS. Nexus weapons have a Damage (Dam) and Penetration (Pen) ratings. The Pen is used to see what get through. In FS the Pen stat of a weapon is dropped and the Dam values for guns are reduced by 1. So for example, a Nexus laser rifle that is Dam: 13 Pen: 16 in FS will translate to just a Dam: 12 rifle. The dropping the damage of a weapon by 1 point doesn’t work in all cases of damage as we’ll see shortly. The formulas for damage of a punch, melee weapons are very different or the same. Examples: A typical punch in Nexus has a Dam & Pen of Str-2 but, in FS a punch does Str+1. A tonfa in both games is Str+1.

When using the formulas in 3G to convert a firearm to Nexus or FS the stats mesh in most cases perfectly. Just be aware that 3G uses the actually muzzle energy of a weapon to derive stats from, instead of just saying all weapons of the same caliber do the same damage, so the damage can vary slightly. For example, .44 Mag. Desert Eagle is a Dam: 12 Pen: 13 or Dam: 13 Pen: 13 gun depending on the barrel length of the Dessert Eagle. (When converted to FS this just becomes a Dam of 11 or 12.) 3G’s conversion of melee weapons didn’t work right in the few conversions I did. The 3G tonfa from More Guns is a Str+3, while in Nexus and FS it is Str+1. The More Guns katana came out to Str+4, yet Nexus gives it at Str+5, in FS it would be Str+4 from just going by the chart in the core FS rules.

Nexus treats 1 gram of explosive of doing a certain base damage. For every doubling of the amount of explosive you get a +2 increase of the damage it does. So 2 grams does +2, 4 grams gives you a +4, 8 grams a +6. Etc.

The base damage for 1 gram of explosive in Nexus are:
Name: C-4 Base Damage: 4
Name: Nitroglycerine Base Damage: 3
Name: RDX Base Damage: 5
Name: TNT Base Damage: 2
Name: Plasma Charge Base Damage: 6

In 3G ½ of the 3G DV (Damage Value) of an explosive becomes 1 gram of a Nexus explosive and damage is increased after that as per Nexus rules. The premade guns in More Guns just gives a DV for the entire exposive rounds, so if I just used that to get a damage number for a 40mm standard explosive round from Armscour MGL it was comming out to 14 explosive damage.

Explosive come in two basic varieties in Nexus normal and shaped charges. A shaped charge focuses part of the explosive force into a jet. Normal damage and the amount of damage the jet inflicts are both taken. The jet is treated as a Penetrating attack with a Dam and Pen equal to the damage of the explosive +4.

In 3G you can get a 3G DV for just the shaped charge if you use the 3G DV of the explosive and it comes out to be much higher amounts of Damage inflicted when converted over.

Explosive Damage in Nexus drops off based on how far away the target is from the center of the explosion. The drop off due to Range in Nexus is given bellow:

Distance from Explosion (Damage Mod)
0m (-0)
1m (-4)
2m (-8)
4m (-12)
8m (-16)
16m (-20)
X2 (-4 additional)

Fragmentation type explosions in Nexus increase the Damage by 2 provided they can penetrate and have a Pen of 10. What this means is that if you are wearing good enough armor you’ll take no damage from the Fragments. You still have to worry about the blast. The rules for Fragmentation don’t translate over nicely into FS as was pointed out earlier Armor works differently in FS.

In Nexus a grenade doesn’t land in the area it is targeted for it lands a number of meters equal to the Check's negative outcome. Thrown grenades give an AV mod of double the normal one for range as they are very inaccurate.

Ok now the base Nexus rules are out of the way and on to some weapon data from Nexus.

Nexus gives some example grenades and explosive it in the NPC descriptions found throughout it and in the equipment section. All info bellow is in Nexus stats, Nexus item costs aren’t given

A typical sample concussion grenade is listed as: Dam/Pen: 20 explosive

A typical sample fragmentation grenade is listed as: Dam/Pen: 18 explosive +2 to targets with less than 11PR armor.

A typical incendiary grenade is listed as: 13 Dam/Pen explosion, target take explosive damage every phase due to burning (reduced by 1 pt per phase after the first).

A typical light and sound stun grenade cause a person to make a KO Check with a difficult of 10 minus the distance from the grenade in meters.

A typical tear gas grenade has a 3m radius with target in it suffering 3 Impairment Points.

A typical 40mm Grenade Launcher in the Heavy Weapons Section of the Chart is listed as Dam/Pen : 17 exp./19 weapon.

A 66mm rocket (LAW) is given as Dam/Pen: 22 exp./ 25

Nexus has lots more explosive weapons hidden away in its pages, but the above will be enough.

3G and the companion volume More Guns do have some non-blast grenades but no Nexus or FS rules on how to use them with those 2 games.

So how can we use this in FS is the question to get a good set of explosive rules?

Before answering that lets look at what we can take from the various official FS books that we need to look at.

First we need to look at the FS Core rules pg. 140 to see how FS handles explosives.

GW gives a write up a Missile Launcher on pg. 107

SNF on pg. 57 gives the Woodchuck 70mm Missile Launcher.

GC on pg. 86-88 the Mini Grenades secretion gives lots of info on FS grenades. These rules for stun and tear gas grenades are different from how Nexus handles them. They are the most detailed ones on those 2 types of grenades that I’ve seen in all the various Nexus and FS books being looked at.

FOD gives some rules on Tear Gas in the side bar of SWAT team equipment. These rules are very different from how Nexus handles Tear Gas. They mesh partially with the ones in GC.

Since we are mentioning gas weapons some 2056 stuff on them:
1.) According to SNF tear gas is still used in 2056.
2.) The armor elite Buro fighting troops are equipped with can be fully sealed. The air hoses on the helmets are detachable and could be detached or broken in HTH combat. See the Shadowfist player’s guide or just look at some of Shadowfist cards they show up in if you want a pic of the armor.
3.) In SNF we also can find a reference to a gas called happy gas. It causes giggling fits and a -3 AV penalty.

Add anything else I missed that is in an official FS book to the above to be examined. I’m certain I missed something.

So anyone got any ideas on how to use all this stuff to get a good set of explosive rules for FS? Right now , but I’m sort of burnt out. I’ve been just working up each explosive device individually.

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Ok so now wait. You just gave a run down of the FS explosion rules... didn't you? No, wait, you gave the 3G and Nexus rules but then... gave the comparison rules for FS...? But there aren't any... uhhrrr.... ok let me look at my core rules... I had already started on some of these rules so I can dig out my notes.

Aside: Unarmed and Melee damage would depend on the Attribute ranges (Str-2 vs Str+1) used and the genre itself - barehand damage in a martial arts game would be equal to being armed with a small weapon in a non-cinematic/martial arts game, most likely, because of the extra power and skill able to be applied by a trained martial artist vs a typical street cop used to brawling, albeit maybe quite skillfully and successfully.

So the table is:
1g = base damage
2-3g = base +2
4-7g = +4
8-15g = +6
16-31g = +8
32-65g = +10
64-127g = +12
128-255g = +14
256-511g = +16
512-999g = +18
1kg = base +20

This would make a standard 250g stick of TNT do 16 damage in Nexus? Or do you do the base damage for each gram also?

EXPLOSIVE / NxDmg / 250g UNIT
TNT / 2 / block/stick
Nitro / 3 / liquid
C-4 / 4 /
RDX / 5 / refined dynamite variant
Plasma / 6 /

I didn't understand this at all. This 3G stuff seems to throw everything.

The getting rid of the penetration value and dropping the FS damage values don't make any sense at all to me - you take a value that indicates the deadliness of an attack and then instead of increase another game's stat to reflect it, DECREASE it? I don't get it.

Shaped Charges: Normal and Pen, with jet having Pen = Dmg +4. This seems a solid formula.

The Penetration mechanic isn't that much of a problem really, as the Eagle Eye schtick is the obvious precedent, ignoring a point of armor, where in this aspect of game mechanics, it would apply to armor first, then Toughness. You really could just add it in as an additional stat like (P3) or something right along with damage - I don't see it being that much of a problem if you're going so far as to convert rules and stats and items and skills from other systems anyway.

Range dropoff for explosives, for FS, and Nexus, appear to be non-standard, like always, which I personally don't like, and don't mesh with my original extrapolation, and are instead exponential, even though FS uses multiples of 3 quite a bit in some areas, defeating its own internal consistency. But I'll give this a shot anyway.

From the FS Core Rules:

Explosion Type: Damage
Across the street from an exploding building: 7
4+ meters away from grenade: 10
4+ meters away from big explosion: 12
Soaked in gasoline and set on fire: 15/round (not technically explosion)
Jumping on a grenade: 23
In middle of big explosion: 27

From here I think extrapolation could go something like:

Exploding Building/Big Explosion
Range / Step / Result
0m / -0 / 27 (middle of big explosion/inside exploding building)
<=1m / -4 / 23
2-3m / -8 / 19
4-7m / -12 / 15 (-3 damage discrepancy from FS core rule damage listing; fix: ???)
8-15m / -16 / 11
16-31m / -20 / 7 ("Across the street" assumes 16-31m from exploding building)
32-63m / -24 / 3
64-127m / -28 / 0

Grenade
Range / Step / Result
0m / -0 / 23 (jumping on a grenade)
<=1m / -4 / 19
2-3m / -8 / 15
4-7m / -12 / 11 (-1 discrepancy from FS core rules; fix: Small Explosive Mod)
8-15m / -16 / 7
16-31 / -20 / 3
32-63m / -24 / 0

I'd say overall the range damage reduction chart is workable for FS for those that use specific meters in distance. Otherwise, distances under 21m are Short, though I suppose under 1 would be Point Blank, but the reduction would have to be doubled or tripled for significant reduction, if not using actual measured distances for distance (some GM's don't).

Rules/Mechanics Modifications:
Small Explosives: -1 damage if 4m+ from explosions smaller than 25 damage

Also using your Nexus chart, just as a reminder, for any needed calculations:

0-20m = Short Range (0 Diff Mod)
21-40m = Medium Range (+2 Diff Mod)
41-80m = Long Range (+6 Diff Mod)
81-160m+ = Extreme (+14 Diff Mod)

So pretty much anything will take place at Medium or shorter range, including all explosions and escaping of said explosions.

I guess it depends - if you have an explosion that needs to have a Fragmentation effect, you could increase it's damage and give it a Penetration rating, such as P1 and +1 damage, or one or the other, as it is the same thing, it goes past your armor or Toughness. Alternately, you could give Fragmentation explosions the
Eagle Eye schtick at 1 or 2 levels if you want to stay within the rules. Unless explosion Penetration is meant to be really significant, in which case you can just say damage ignores Toughness, or some variation?

This seems a subjective rule for each GM as to whether or not he likes this. Maybe you could add a Grenadier schtick or for people who are good at Thrown weapons, etc.

The conditional damage IF it makes it past a character's Tgh isn't applicable because NOBODY has Tgh higher than 12 oe 15 on average, for Frag, so I'd say just up them to their conditional max, or leave them at their normal non-conditional damage. Also I'd suggest most of the effects of the weapons are probably best
represented as Fu Powers, Creature schticks, etc.

Not having these rules sets you refer to, I can only go from the FS rules, extrapolating:

FS:
GRENADES / DMG, Special Effects
Concussion / 20 (or 23) explosive, Small Explosive
Fragmentation / 18 explosive, Eagle Eye 2 or more
Incendiary / 15/rnd as per FS core rules
Stun / KO Check, explosive, 3 Impairment, -1 per meter past 3 from explosion, for Outcome, etc.
Tear Gas / Foul Spew: Nauseating Chunks, explosive
Grenade Launcher / 19 explosive, Small Explosive
66mm Rocket / 22 explosive, Eagle Eye 4, Lightning Fist?

So how would one work out the translation for grenades and such between FS and Nexus via the chart way at the top of this? A 250g stick of Nexus TNT does 16 point blank damage (if I did my math right), compared to a 23 dmg pb grenade - that actually sounds close to right, maybe?

3

Thanks for looking over the stuff I posted and commenting on it. I was pretty certain I left something important out when I typed that up. Best not to type up the stuff I planed to post at 2:00AM in the morning again and go back and edit and changes text. with out triple checking everything. I've commented and typed in additions and stuff that I needed to I might repeat one or two things again in certain spots.

I do wish Daedalus had gotten around to making the Nexus PDF I saw references in some old new group discussions that the Nexus rules would have been available as a free PDF at one point. The PDF version would have had some corrections to it from what I read. I haven't seen anyone make a PDF of them either. I'd buy a PDF or another print version of the rules in an instant if Atlas or some one were to reissue it. Could just direct you to that instead of having to retype section from it

You are correct a 250g stick of TNT does 16 damage in Nexus. Nexus has a chart to help with working out damage of explosives that is practically identical to the one you posted that shows the explosive size in grams with the bonus to damage. I just typed up the rule Nexus gives, and didn't reproduce the chart as it was repetitive.

Most special effects can be handled with a schtick as you pointed out, when the rules don't cover them. Also, a great way to make to make some very interesting grenades.

Eagle Eye as you pointed out could be used to make some sort of armor defeating explosive.

For explosives that cause Fragmentation Eagle Eye isn't going to work, as the Fragmenting Explosive is only getting a damage bonus if you don't have armor on designed to stop the fragments. (See the stuff I typed bellow on Armor and Damage.) Just giving it a +1 or +2 damage increase might be the best way to handle it. Why +1 instead of 2. The weakest armor in FS will give a +1 to Tgh. The same Armor in Nexus is supposed to stop the +2 frag damage. So if it is just 1 the FS will stop the bonus added for fragments and let the rest be taken as damage..

Gun Schticks can easily be adapted to grenade use.

A Grenadier schtick could be one to deal with the negative DMs grenades give if that is being used.

Lightning Reload could be applied to grenades. At Level 3 you always have one to throw something to throw.

Another schtick option could be to apply Versatile Ammo, from Thorns of the Lotus to grenades. At level 1 you never run out of grenades, at level 2 you always have access to specialty grenades. A flash one, a smoke one, a tear gas grenade, one that blasts out stick stuff to immobilize your opponents, a sonic one, etc.

The grenade range DM like you suggested is best handled as an option. While working on my reply I looked at how range in Nexus and FS works, and typed up the comparisons too.

For some more of a look on damage I typed this up and some stuff on some other things that need additional clarification or comment..

I wasn't clear I think in explaining the difference in a Damage Value (DV) from 3G and Damage in Nexus and FS. 3G gives all weapons a Damage Value, this is not the same as a Damage and Penetration Rating in Nexus and FS, you then have to plug in formulas on a scientific calculator to get what that the DV translates to in the game system your converting the data over to. A DV for a 3G handgun is based on Muzzle Energy and projectile diameter. The formula to get the Penetration in Nexus is not using the same DV to generate the Nexus Damage of it, the barrel diameter has been factored out of the 3G DV before applying the conversion. For FS you would take the Nexus stats, drop the Pen and reduce the Nexus Damage you got by 1 according to the conversion notes in 3G. I've always used the 3G conversion rules when making guns as I've seen other FS players use it and it gives accurate stats. (After looking at the gun comparison charts I typed bellow, I'm not entirely sure if the decrease damage by 1 in FS needs to be applied at all times. I can see how it may have been gotten at by looking at the Damage charts for both games.)

The exact formula 3G uses is bellow along with some sample 3G DVs for average weapons of a type of caliber.

Nexus Damage (or Penetration) = log3G3DV x 8.5 (round nearest)

3G3 (DV Nexus) DV Example
10 (9)
14 (10) 7.65mm pistol
18 (11) 9mm pistol
23 (12 ).357 Magnum pistol
30 (13) .44 Magnum pistol
39 (14)
51 (15) 5.56mm rifle
67 (16) 7.62mm rifle
88 (17) Elephant rifle
115 (18) Heavy machine gun
151 (19)20mm cannon

To get the 3G DV with projectile damage factored out so you can get a Nexus Pen do this.
1.) Determine barrel diameter of the gun (Example my gun has a 9mm barrel diameter. Important gun geek note, just cause the bullet is listed in its name as being being a certain diameter isn't always the case as you would think. Check a good reloading chart or the actual gun's real world data.)
2.) Convert it to cm if it isn't in it. (Example continued: 9/10= 0.9)
3.) Square this number. round Factions to the nearest 0.000 (Example this gets 0.949 when I round off the faction to something workable. Technically, you can round closer but I always do it to the nearest 0.000.)
4.) Multiply the DV by this number. Round to nearest. This is the DV without projectile diameter factored in.(Example continued: my gun has a 3G DV of 18. When I multiply 18 by 0.949 and round it I end up with a 17.)
Quick Calculation Note: In More Guns they have a chart of various bullets in mm given with the mod you need to multiply DV by so you don't have to do some of these calculations of steps 2 and 3 if the bullet is given it .
5.) Plug in the conversion formula used for damage now to get the Pen. (Example: doing this gets me a 10)

Remember 3G DV vary as it is taking into account amount of powder in the bullet tech level of the powder, barrel length, etc. So a 9mm can have a a different DV depending on the gun in question.

If by some chance you get a higher than a 13 in the Dam or Pen conversion. Only go past that number with the GMs permission according to the rules in 3G. The .460 Magnum Weatherby Mk. V. from More Guns is one of those that exceeds 13 when you plug the numbers in. (Nexus Dam/Pen of 16/16 if the GM allows it)

3G uses an Explosive DV for 1 gram of explosive. Explosive Damage Values in 3G are indicated by an "E" after the DV. 1/2 of a 3G Explosion DV for 1 gram of a 3G explosive = 1gram Nexus Base damage for that type of explosive.

One of the problem with 3G is that it is trying to give a consistent formula for the damage it gives weapons, while FS and Nexus aren't entirely consistent and both aren't worried about things like muzzle energy, quality of the powder used, etc..

Also, the conversion rules in 3G were written before Golden Comeback and several other books came out, so the existing conversion rules need an update to take the stuff in them into account. I might send BTRC an email asking if an updated version of the conversion rules exist or if they have any other advice they can recommend.

When you look at the sample guns and caliber damage ratings given in Nexus they are identical in a few cases to FS ones, higher than what they are in FS in some cases, and in others lower.

Nexus has a firearms chart that gives this generic weapon data for some generic guns. I'm not reproducing the entire chart just the firearms list from Nexus just some basic type and Dam /Pen stuff for a few guns. Note the only actual gun with a specific name mention is the CAWS. (A big gun damage error or inconsistency that no one has spotted to my knowledge came out of me looking closely at this.)

In Nexus you have:

Type Dam/Pen

Pistols
Light (.38) 9/11
Medium (9mm/.45) 10/12
Heavy (.357) 11/12
Very/Heavy (.44) 12/11
Massive (.50, 13.1) 13/13
Rifles
Medium (5.56mm) 12/14
Heavy (7.62mm) 12/15
Shotguns
20 gauge 11/9
12 gauge 13/10
10 gauge 14/11
CAWS, 12 ga auto 13/10

For FS the chart on 139 Atlas edition gives:
Type Damage
small handgun (.22) 8
medium handgun (.38) 9
big handgun (9mm/.45) 10
really big handgun (.357/.44) 11
BFG (.50) 12
hunting shotgun 10
combat shotgun 13
medium rifle (5.56mm) 13
heavy rifle (7.62) 13

Some of the ones that look like will match don't when you check the write ups for specific weapons in the FS rules. The Ingram-M11, a 9mm (.380ACP), in Golden Comeback is listed as doing 9 damage. (GC forgets to mention that 32 round clips exist for the M-11 it in addition to the 16 round ones. Really need to just fix those firearms in FS) Yet a 9mm Mini Uzi in the FS Atlas rules is list as 10. If you look at the 9mm guns in GC they aren't all doing the same damage and some of the ones that have lower values really shouldn't. FS is not consistent for some reason with no logical reason at all given to why. So is a 9mm supposed to be 9 or 10 damage? Hmmm, is there something were missing that is obvious as to why were seeing inconsistencies with gun damage? (Hint: Reread this paragraph again and look at the charts again.)

A problem with using the FS chart and it is on the Nexus one too, that might explain the damage inconsistency, you may not spot right away when you remember that .380ACP is a 9mm round. .38 S&W is a 9mm round. A 9mm Mackarov is technically a 9.2mm round (Threw the Mackarov one in to show why you want to check the actual bullet diameter when dealing with firearm stats.) I can call the exact same M-11 a .380, a .38, or a 9mm and those are all correct designations for that caliber. Those charts were what was used to make the specific guns found in both games. (I'm going to end up at some point just redoing all the guns in FS and in GC at some time.)

Forgot something on my quick mention of the Nexus armor that is important. They also have an IR (Impact Resistance) in addition to a Penetration Resistance (PR) so you need to know what type of attack it is to know what is being absorbed by the armor. I did remember to mention that Nexus uses 2 basic types of attacks types, penetrating and impact. All the sample weapons in Nexus are only given Damage and Penetration ratings.

A Light Ballistic Nylon Vest in Nexus is PR: 11 IR:6. Ballistic Nylon is treated as having a PR of 3 lower than listed if the attack is from blades, lasers, or arrows. Hard Leather Armor is PR:9 IR:9. Yep, PR and IR values don't have to be equal in a type of armor.

What I was trying to point out, but failed to as I forgot to mention IR was the depending on exactly what the Armor is made off determines if the fragments of a fragmentation grenade will damage a character and the absorption of blast damage can vary and isn't consistent.. The Nylon vest is going to prevent the fragments from adding to the damage a character takes, but they are still going to take explosive blast damage. The Hard Leather armor won't stop the a fragmentation grenades fragments, but it can be a better armor, especially if you use an optional Nexus damage rule on non-penetrating damage. When you have armor giving a bonus to Tgh the exact material it is made up of isn't important and FS deliberately makes the wearing of Armor an unattractive option.

More Nexus armor stuff that needs to be mentioned. Some Damage rules are covered in this as well. You'll quickly see why FS did away with most of this.

Even if an attack penetrates armor the armor absorbs some of the damage.

Excess Penetration (Damage Mod due to Armor Absorption)
-1 (-2)
-2 (-1)

Excess Impact (Damage Mod due to Armor Absorption)
1 (-4)
2 (-3)
3 (-2)
4 (-1)

Glancing Blows- In Nexus if a Task Check out come is 0 or 1 it is considered glancing and has its Pen reduced by 3. Additional the WP Mod for Outcome can't exceed is 1/2. (In Nexus the final WPs you take from an attack is multiplied by a number based on Outcome, see what I typed bellow on this.)

If your Outcome is 15 or more you bypass the armor completely, if it isn't seamless oh has any weak areas.

Some Armors are designed to make the attacks cause glancing blows. They reduce the the Outcomes of attacks that hit by 1 or 2 to reflect this.

Nexus has an optional rule that handles Impact Damage From Penetrating Attacks. So even though though a bullet didn't penetrate armor the target can still take impact damage from it. It only lets you do this for certain Penetrating Attack. Explosives are one of them I'm not going to type up this rule as it is about half a page in length and it is optional. Game play slows down when you use it.

Indirect Damage - They have this rule buried in the Nexus book and I didn't even see it till today, it isn't in the explosive rules section. (The Nexus book is poorly organized, it does have an index though.) Nexus makes you roll 1D6 and add that to the based damage of an indirect attack. This rule could be ported to FS or just be ignored. Using it will slow down game play and add to the lethality of explosives.

Outcomes in Nexus don't add to the damage of an attack but instead give you a Damage multiplier of an attack.
The Mods are:
Outcome (WP Mod)
1 (1/4)
2 (1/4)
3 (1/2)
4 (3/4)
5 (1)
6 (1 1/2)
7 (2)
8 (3)
9 (4)
10 (6)
11 (12)
13 (6)
14 (24)
16 (48)
17 (64)
18 (96)

You can take fractional Wound Points in Nexus.

The number of WPs you can take in Nexus before having to worry about a Death Save is 5. When you take into account that you are going to be using armor and your WPs taken are getting Modified by a multiplier based on Outcome. It isn't as bad as it first looks. (You can in Nexus spend character advantage points to increase when you have to worry a Death Save. Nexus uses a point based generation system to make characters.)

So your having to do this in Nexus in regards to damage basically. (If your using the impact dam from pen rule it goes a lot slower)
1.) Determine if Armor stop it, and if it doesn't how much it reduces it by to get the damage before moving to step 2.
2.) If your attack did penetrate armor and will inflict damage. Take the damage that will be taken sub tract Tgh from it to get the base wound points taken.
3.) Modify the base wound points by the wound point multiplier based on out come. The result is how many WPs the character takes.

Why did they drop the Pen rules and change this stuff in FS?
A few idea are:
1.) The way armor and penetration works in Nexus slows down combat. Getting rid of those systems and just making armor give a Tgh bonus, and in some cases an Agl makes for a quicker combat system.
2.) Action heroes don't wear armor and FS is written to make you not want to wear it.
3.) Nexus is slow for other reasons aside those listed in 1, as your having to multiply damage, keep track of factional damage, etc. By making the changes FS does combat is seeded up and is more fun to play out. you can make Nexus even slower with all sorts of optional rules.

Thanks for posting the FS range chart it made me go check the Nexus one and is why I typed this range comparison up. The charts bellow are for ranged weapons. In a grenade's case they are used in determining if the grenade lands in the area you intended it to. The DM mods are to hit your target or target area. For every negative Point you miss the Check by in Nexus the grenade deviates that many meters from the target. as was mention in my last post. The rules for how a missed grenade throw works in FS are in the Throwing Stuff section on page 142, Atlas edition.

Nexus Range Chart
Description (Range in meters) (DM)
Point Blank (5m) (0 DM)
Close (10m) (+2 DM)
Short (20m) (+4 DM)
Medium (40m) (+6 DM)
Long (80m) (+8 DM)
each doubling of range after 80m doubles the DM

Nexus Range Chart Modified For Grenades (base DMs are doubled)
Point Blank (5m) (0 DM)
Close (10m) (+4 DM)
Short (20m) (+8 DM)
Medium (40m) (+12DM)
Long (80m) (+16 DM)
each doubling of range after 80m doubles the DM of the previous range

FS Range Chart
Short (20m) (0 DM)
Medium (40m) (+2 DM)
Long (80m) (+4 DM)
Extreme (160m) (+14 DM)
each doubling of range after 160m doubles the DM

In Nexus the grenade throw DM can also be applied to other weapons that have a short range or are considered inaccurate.

I honestly don't like the range rules in Nexus and FS as you end up with pistols that shoot as far as high powered rifles.

Golden Comeback tries to remedy that a little by giving some guns the distinction of being called snipper rifles and saying certain weapons give a -3 penalty if less than 10m, as the weapon is meant for long range, and that the DM for them at all other are halved. but this rule doesn't work when you really start digging at ballistics data. Unfortunately GC gives no guidelines on how it derived at this.

3G tries handle this in Nexus and in FS with an optional rule that makes a a new weapon stat called Range Class. This is a plus or negative number that you add to the DM for range when using a certain weapon, that if when added to the DM for range can never make it greater than 0. To try and add some variety to take into account the type of weapon being fired and if it is accurate or not for the type it is.

If your in the blast radius of an explosion you can't avoid the damage the way Nexus has the rules written. I don't see any mechanic letting you avoid the damage from blast in FS or Nexus either if your caught in it.. All you can do is hope you can handle the damage . Grenades are bad news. A mechanic to let you take reduced damage could be made.

Moving onto another weapon topic is some heavy weapons are going to be unusable due to things like recoil and weight.

One optional Nexus Rule that FS doesn't use except for some weapons is a Strength Requirement (Str req.). In Nexus every point of Strength you are bellow it you get an AV penalty equal to it. Nexus doesn't give any formula on how to determine it just lists it for the sample weapons.

3G does give two formula to work this from the 3G DV of a weapon.. When using 3G you calculate it using both methods and use the one that gives the highest Strength requirement.

FS handles the Str req. it just says if your not strong enough you can't fire it end of discussion. Certain schitcks could let you use it if your Sr wasn't high enough.

The Missile Launcher in GW has one of 11.

Frustrating thing about the Missile Launcher is it is listed a (23**/-/1000). The description of it says the target take 23 damage and anyone around them takes 12 Damage. It doesn't specify any where just how big an area around the target is that takes that damage, You'll se something else bad about these stats in a second too.

Now 66mm (LAW) from Nexus is:

66mm (LAW) Dam: 22 Pen: 25 Str req. 4

In SNF we have the Woodchuck 70mm Missile from SNF is listed as (25/3/1). You only need a Str of 8 to use it unless you get help bracing it. The description says that if your within 10m of the blast you take 12 damage.

I feel like just tossing my FS books and copy of Nexus as nothing seems to be consistent. Why would I ever want a Missile Launcher from GW a LAW is much easier to use and the damage is just about the same. The Woodchuck out performs the GW one too.

More Guns has M72 LAW (66mm) in it I'm getting a Nexus Dam of 23 when I punch in the 3G conversion notes I have if I'm correct in applying it. Strength Req. wise I'm getting a 4 when I use the 3G rules calculation rules for that. The Pen is coming out to 30 but I think I'm doing something wrong with conversion of it. The Pen might just be 23. (If I send BTRC an email I'm going to ask for some help on that conversion.)

A Stinger Missile Launcher from More Guns is coming out to a Str of 5 with 3G. (Didn't bother with the other stats)

Those 2056 weapons are heavy and not as good as the old contemporary juncture ones it looks like.

The Missile Launcher in GW and SNF need some modification. I can see the Woodchuck with a Str req. of 5 or 6, because it is and a little bigger re-loadable and warheads are big enough that you can put a guidance system on them. The GW one needs a major damage upgrade to it to justify that high of a Str or your using a real bad explosive and propelent for the missile.

Now I'm curious if all the other heavy weapons in Nexus are going to mesh with FS or be just as buggy.

Using explosives weapons against vehicles is I suspecting going to be another can of worms too. Not going to look at that tonight.

I've said way too much and I'm tired. Thanks again for the comments.
Best,
Jay

4

Quick addition on the weapon damage issues I mentioned. The 9mm and .38 damage problem doesn't explain all the damage inconsitency issues with weapon damage, just some of them I spotted.

5

Are these teasters or is a full .pdf dead in the water?

Maybe Atlas would let you put one on Drivethrurpg.com?

6

hey neo,
this is just me going through the rules and looking for anything that can be improved or consolidated. I managed to get a copy of Nexus a few months back and I'm noticing some things in it that explain how things are designed in FS. (Have to rember to make a post on Nexus skill costs at some point when I get some free time it explained some things when I started to examine the archetpes.)

If you want some more info on 3G (Guns, Gun, Guns,) that I mentioned you can check out BTRC's web site.

btrc.net/

You can get Guns Guns Guns in a PDF form if your interested in getting a realistic weapon design set of rules for Feng Shui and several other games. I purchased both a print version and a PDF version. The PDF version is a bit longer and has some extra stuff in it.