Brainstorm Breakthroughs

This one worries me. AS things stand lots of incredible stores can be told about arcane connections. If you can synthesize connections then you're going to loose the rationale for lots of these stories. I'm sure the magi would like it but I can't see how it would make a game more fun.

Perhaps if those arcane conncections only gives the ability to cast spells at arcane connection range. Not any penetration bonus. But I must agree with Mr Tyrrell, it ruins a lot of story potential.

Well do not like this for two reasons:
1.) Merinita have a similar inner mystery (folk magic IIRC) as a major virtue. Duration is called sign and lasts as long as the sign is intact. However this is like year's duration +4 and a ritual. This way I think it is balanced.
2.) Such spells could lead to a collaps of the market of selling items. So it will unbalance the game. By the way, any Verditus (and some other magi as well) knowing that someone is doing research in this field will take care that he does not finish his research... :imp: :smiling_imp:

They're not really equivalent - Symbol duration spells last as long as the sign does, but the sign does not have to beinscribed upon the target, doesn't actually have to be a sign (it could be a poem) and is generally better in every way. It's also inside Ancient Magic as Duration:Rune, where it's equivalent to Moon.

However, given that Duration:Circle spells have already been used canonicaly to create binding spells and the like ... frankly, I think it should be equivalent to Ring. Amongst other things, the bumping it to +3 seems to have been to balance the parma-breaking aspects of Rune Magic as a whole. It has the same limting feature (the ring/rune/glyph being destroyed), and sacrifices the multiple target and area aspects of Ring for portability. As far as magical items, it does make items which affect themselves less desirable, but that's not really a significant problem. Firstly, it can be partially sorted by requiring the rune to have a certain area per magnitude (About 3 inches by 3 inches seems right) or by saying that an object can support only as many magnitudes of runes as it would take pawns of vim to open. Secondly, items which only affect themselves are generally less interesting than items which do things. A rune-marked sword may be on fire, but you can't put it out. You can't sheath it. You can't hide or store it.

I don't really see how this would help you overcome anything that you would actually need/want a connection against for a penetration bonus? You would still need to penetrate with your CrVi effect to generate an arcane connection to something... and if you can do that already, then I don't have a problem with you doing so. If you can't penetrate, without a connection, then you are back to looking for the old fashioned kind like before.

Mmm. Given that making two thing Arcane connections to each other would require them to both be in the same place and, being a spell, have to penetrate seems to me to create stories, rather than remove them. For instance, making two books arcane connections to each other and then sending one to an enemy covenant to provide access to their library.

Indeed, I'd argue that Hermetic Magic can already do this. PeVi can destroy arcane connections, so it seems entirely sensible that once two things have an arcane connection (by putting them next to each other), CrVi can strengthen it. Since a spell can't target a thing which isn't wholly there, this can only be done by two things which are in the same range so. The Limit of Creation explains why Vis is needed to make an AC permanent, and it's a seasonal activity rather than a spell because of the aforementioned range problem. Just because there aren't guidelines published doesn't mean Hermetic magic can't do it.

Here's a new one: Ranged Circle Targets (Minor): At the moment, the only range circle target spells can be used for is touch because the circle has to be traced. This breakthrough allows a circle which has been traced within the last season to be used - the magus must have taken the time to trace and use the circle for at least one minor spell in order to be considered attuned to it, though that spell does not need to be active for the whole season. Once this is done, provided the circle is in range of the spell, it may be used as a target. eg:
Break the Interloper's Stride (PeCo25 Base 15, +2 Voice)
This spell, developed by an unpleasant Tremere who favoured it for circles located near his Sanctum doors but was not above using it elsewhere, breaks the left leg of anyone standing in the predefined circle. Once immobilised, the victims are generally not long for this world.

Ranged circle - already there, I seem to remember, Hermetic Geometry minor mystery virtue in the mysteries revised?

Yes, and no. Arcane Circle and Arcane Ring actually create the circle about a distant point, rather than invoking a circle which is already there.

Parma breakthroughs seem to be popular, but here is one more anyway.

A minor breakthrough which I have been thinking about a while. It mirrors the sympathetic penetration rules and would allow for defensive preparation instead of offensive.

Sympathetic parma - this fold increases the Parma Magica multiplier by +1 for every point of sympathetic connection you have to your target but costs you 1 point of parma in general. You cannot use sympathetic connections to increase your penetration score against the same target while using this fold.

E.g.: If you have a horoscope (+1 sympathetic connection) for the designated target and a Parma Magica score of 4, your magic resistance would be 4x(5+1) = 24 + Form Bonus versus your target and 3x5 = 15 + Form Bonus versus everyone else.

I think the power level is reasonable and that is gives more options which is a good thing. Opinions?

I would be very interested in making a breakthrough allowing me to create magic items with effects enhanced with any special abilities I own from my masterd spells, or simply with any special abilities from Spell Matery I think suitable for the item

Hmmm well metodicus, something similar already exists for the Verditius Inner Mystery "Enchanted Casting Tools" so perhaps a breakthrough to allow those features to be used on other types of enchanted devices.

I'm surprised no one else has put these in, though range : reach has made an appearance...

Range : Near (equal to voice) - 15 paces (a good stone's throw)
Range : Far (equal to sight) - 100 paces (a good arrow shot)


It was deliberate on my part, I don't feel they really add anything. Voice has much more flavour than Near (and I've already placed Reach at that level :slight_smile:) and Far is not as good as Sight. Reach fills in a gap left by Touch and Eye, those two don't really.

I would like some comments on this breakthrough; witch is tree major breakthrough in a row.

Major first
Use Wim instead of any of the other forms, only in Rituals.

Major second
Use Wim instead of any of the other forms, in Spells.

Major third and final
Use Wim instead of any of the other forms, in spontaneous magic.

Certainly the characters would find them beneficial but I think that the players would find them dull. You'd make magic tremendously less interesting and make all of the characters significantly more similar. (all downside no upside.)

From "setting physics" perspective it is difficult to justify. Vim targets other spells, it does not target rocks or people or images or anything else for that matter. Most of the other breakthroughs listed here are in the nature of allowing something to be utilized batter or slightly differently. The advancement that you propose involves change on a much greater scale (at last the first breakthrough, the other two would just expand upon the first).

Certainly the first discovery (perhaps all three) would be hermetic rather than major.

there is a ancient mystery that is very similar to this. You can use one vis for another.

Unless you play with house rules, thats just not true at all.
Voice requires actual sound, Sight requires actually seeing, Near and Far sacrifices range for the removal of those requirements. Which is extremely useful!

How about "Mastered Enchantments". You can develop a Mastery Score in specific enchantments, allowing you to increase your lab total, gain more penetration, trigger it faster, and etceteras. These perks do not effect the final level.

Or (and I don't know if this was already added back in from a suplament)

Link Penetration to the Weilder's Art scores. Best for a Talisman maybe.

There are many good ideas, and I cannot comment on all of them.

Some minor breakthrough are so obvious improvement, that I can hardly imagine them not already been done by some researcher in the past! Exemple: "New target: +1 mag -> target two individuals. Cannot add mag. for size/number."
I guess Durenmar and old covenants ought to have some of those researches, sharing them for a price (w/ Cow and calf oath).

Many ideas listed here could be in such a list of available "breakthroughs" in an old covenant near your home. Is that list already available somewhere ?

I completly agree with the necessity of this.
I think a level 20 should be able to give +1 strenght, for a maximum of +3, to one individual for a duration of Sun. (my arbitrary evaluation)
This give a BASE 5 for +1/max 3.
+2 magnitudes gives another +1 to the stat,
+1 magnitude set the maximum 1 higher.
A CrCo50 gives +3 strenght to a maximum of +5, for a duration of Sun.

The same with Creo mentem spells.

I personnaly don't like abilities or breakthrough that duplicate something that could be done with the "very core" rules (from the base book ArM5, which have 235 pages)
This comprise Mastery that enable to boost range, duration, etc. -> You could invent a new spell with the higher range, duration, etc.
Permitting this Mastery, for me, basically allow you to bypass the core mechanics of the game, which use your Lab Total.

For the same reason, I don't like Rubuttal and Unraveling from Societates p. 129. [If you want to have your Wind of Mundane Silence dispell things of higher level, learn them at a higher level. That's the essence of what makes a general spell a general spell.]
To "compensate", we just allow Adaptive casting (Soc. p. 34) for all mages, which make more sense to us.

Does any one have some idée fore at breakthrough that would make spontaneous magic more powerful?