Yeah I was just thinking of ways in which the school idea could be expanded on. Like if the covenant became a sort of centralised learning point in the tribunal, where magi can send their early apprentices off to learn Latin and artes liberales and other stuff in addition to the service provided to mundanes.
But before I get too sidetracked, we still haven't decided on a vis income amount. I still think 300 BP for 60 pawns per year is a good amount, and any extra left over after figuring out enchanted items and books and stuff can be put into that.
Italy is pretty much the center of academics for Europe at this point in time. Saying this would be nice is like saying it would be great to be the central bank for Jewish businessmen in New York in the modern day. Certainly it would be nice, but its also unrealistic.
In that case we should move on to the library, seeing as anyone that has a request regarding the amount of vis income can just come back to that.
I'll just repost what I had on the previous page:
So the most that would cost is 1114, leaving us with 498BP, plus 4 for 1118 or 494 remaining to start with the vis necessary to purchase the primers on the wiki, which would mean we would have a primer for art.
Personally I'm actually leaning towards the "power gaming library" a little bit, though all things considered I am very undecided.
The remaining BP is still enough to purchase specialist teachers for our school hook, heaps of enchantment levels, some starting money and lab texts, so we should focus on our library now.
since we only seem to be getting agreement, what sort of vis do you want that in? Market wise i'd recommend Creo- Creo is always in demand. However keep in mind we do nee to account for where the vis comes from, the ghosts idea is good, and would certainly make sense for mentem. Also keep in mind that 60 vis/yr is amassive source, and the rivals who had harvested it previously will definitely not be happy about losing it.
Probably a rather significant amount of free seeing as we have a healing specialist magi. I don't know about everyone else but Andros and Danton won't need via for cast spells as they are unlikely to require any penetration.
That said I wouldn't mind some terram, muto and perdo mixed in so that they can make enchantments for their armies. Although may as well have most of it on creo because anything else we need can just be traded for.
Keep in mind there is more to this than spending points- each source also needs an in game explanation in a tribunal where resources are scarce- and each source of vis will mean complications such as rivals. A laundry list of different types of vis is also going to be a laundry list of complications (which will count as hooks). For each source of vis we need to decide more than just what type you want, but also where it is harvested from, and keep in mind there are no free sources of vis lying around waiting to be discovered- this tribunal has been thoroughly explored and vis sources found. Any vis source you have will mean stepping on someone else's toes- unless it is vis generated by trade, which is automatically vis of account rather than a type...
In terms of story reasons I was thinking about the fact that the covenant was originally owned by another covenant in Normandy. One idea is that they had a very expansionist perspective and took over a lot of vis sources in the southern Italian peninsula. This particular will create a lot of conflict for the covenant, and probably result in making it impossible for us to achieve anything at tribunal. Alternatively we can go with the salary option and the normandy covenant pays us a significant salary of vis each year. These are two of the ideas I can think of based on the setting.
As for book names, need a name for: Muto, Intellego, Perdo, Aurum, Imaginem, Mentem for the primer books, which coudl be:
Muto: Unnatural altercations and their applications
Intellego: The art of discovery
Perdo: Destruction and Decay
Aurum: Of the Winds and Sky
Imaginem: Now you see me: A brief overview of Illusion magics
Mentem: The human mind and its depths
And various others that I've thoguht of and can be added to:
Ignem: The Applications of Heat and Flame
Terram: Blade and Hilt: Magical Weapons (This would make the most sense as a tractatus title)
Animal: Fantastic Beasts and where to find them (Obviously?)
Vim: The Pure form
Corpus: Women Are like that: A study of the physiological differences of the sexes
Rego: The Magus' Craft
And a bunch more but I'm enjoying this so I'll stop before I don't leave any for anyone else.
I was thinking in terms of explicitly which vis sources you took over and how. Given the history of the area I suspect the changes occurred as the Normans invaded areas with vis sources other covenants had been using, though exactly what rights you have been granted will vary depending on what the vis source is, and what intermediaries you may need to work through...
I wouldn't know where to begin with this. Any particular guidelines on how to go about deciding this?
One idea I just came up with is to base it slightly off of the geography of Locri, the most notable features seem to be a small set of hills, a number of inlets from the Mediterranean, and a medium sized forest. Which could be used for a number of different types of Vis: Herbam, Auquam, maybe some Terram and Aurum and so on.
I know I'm a little late to the discussion and there's lots to respond to.
Starting with general covenant items and possible specialists/companions ...
I'm not sure a school is in keeping with the original reason the land was granted, and as Silveroak said, it would probably be a little redundant.
I like the ideas of having salt and cotton as our income sources. I have the germ of an idea about a possible companion character who would be really good at making tapestries. I'll post something once I have a better feeling for that.
To what extent is the "Saracen threat" still a threat by 1100? I could see us having covenfolk from a number of geographic regions given our location. At one point the Road hook was mentioned to account for the mundane traffic and trade in the area.
Would a specialist in defensive works and/or siege weapons be appropriate? Also a blacksmith/weaponsmith? If we need to defend ourselves from outside attack from time to time, these might be helpful. (SO, how are you handling the development of specialistss? Do you want them statted out?)
Do we have a martial weapons specialist? Someone to train the grogs would be really helpful.
Crawfs, I liked your revised book table, (not the power-gaming one) but wondered where any tractatus would fit in?
What is the significance of the stars and bold-face type on the Library page of the wiki?
I see some abilities summa in the tribunal library. With levels listed there for MT, Pen, Fin, and PM, how prevalent/available would tractatus on these topics be?
Are our starting magi equipped with the lab texts for the spells they know? Only for variant/original spells?
I don't quite have my mind wrapped around the vis sources restrictions yet, and I think I don't understand "vis on account" at this point. I will try to post a couple of ideas for sources and their associated rivals, but I would like some more clarification on how vis sources work in this tribunal. If we have a source which doesn't produce a type we really need, do we trade it for a different flavor?
Here's a possible source I was thinking of ...
Rain water collected from the altar stone of the temple on the spring and autumn equinoxes contains 5 pawns Creo vis in the Spring and 5 pawns Perdo vis in the Autumn. The Norman covenant that created the chapter house agreed to collect the vis for the Winter Roman covenant who owned the source for a fee of 3 pawns per collection. After the agreement was reached, Praesidium Orae has discovered that if rain water is not available, water can be poured on the stone on the eve of the equinox and collected at sunset on the equinox for 3 pawns of vis. We don't know if the Roman covenant was aware of this attribute, as the situation is not described in the collection agreement. There may need to be a re-negotiation of the agreement if the new blood of the Roman covenant take an interest in the agreement or if they discover the additional output. For now, it provides Praesidium Orae a source of 3 pawns Cr and 3 pawns Pe per year.
It makes a little bit of sense considering the setting, that many universities and schools were started in Italy, al though with the Saracen threat it might be a bit silly
Yup, that was pretty much the idea behind cotton, makes for quite a nice companion character
I would also like to know this
This would be dependent on number 3 I suppose
No specialists have been bought thus far, apart from the language teacher Silveroak put on the wiki. This seems like a good idea
same as above
Thanks, I kind of like both but I'll see what everyone has to say about it, my only issue with the original table is it could result in a few arguments about which art gets what level of summae, I'm willing to discuss it but with the small amount of feedback we've been getitng the "power gaming" table moves things along a little easier. On the matter of Tractatus I don't see how it would be a problem, tractatus are usually used a bit later on once the useful summae have been exhausted and we'll have the authorities available to us at that point, did you have anything in mind with tractatus that my table makes void? I not sure what you mean by that to be honest.
I think that's a formatting error, they're just titles and the asterisks are meant to make something bold but Silveroak mucked it up slightly. EDIT: just saw the page you're referring to, not sure what's up with that.
Good quesiton
It doesn't look like it based on the library page, but they're pretty cheap and easy to write. Lab texts cost 5 levels per one point of BP, or we can fairly easily write them out in game, which is I think a minimum of 100 levels of spell texts per season.
I put the stars in as a placeholder for titles. I'm not sure why sometimes they translated to formatting and other times they stayed stars. Since I will be replacing them with titles I didn't worry much about it.
The Saracen threat is subsided but not gone. Politics and warfare is a pretty dynamic situation in the Roman Tribunal, so I wouldn't count on them staying gone, but there does seem to be a prolonged lull in the fighting...
Magi have their personal (untranslated) lab notes for all spells they know.
Anything in the tribunal library will have a fair proliferation of commentaries, in addition to an above average level of tractatus. With vis being an issue of fierce competition the Tribunal strongly encourages the production, copying, and exchange of books. The fact that the redcaps frequently sell copies of these books beyond the tribunal for a significant income is purely secondary...
Regarding book titles suggested by crawfs in blue with my comments/suggestions after:
Muto: Unnatural altercations and their applications ("alterations"?) I like this one a lot.
Intellego: The art of discovery Yep.
Perdo: Destruction and Decay Classics are always nice to have on hand.
Aurum: Of the Winds and Sky Yep.
Imaginem: Now you see me: A brief overview of Illusion magics This one sounds a little silly. How about "Veils and Masks: A brief overview ..." instead?
Mentem: The human mind and its depths Sure.
Ignem: The Applications of Heat and Flame Fine.
Terram: Blade and Hilt: Magical Weapons (This would make the most sense as a tractatus title) I like this.
Animal: Fantastic Beasts and where to find them (Obviously?) Of course!
Vim: The Pure form Good one.
Corpus: Women Are like that: A study of the physiological differences of the sexes. Hmmm ...
Rego: The Magus' Craft Sure.
A few others ...
Creo: "The Art of Becoming"
Ignem: "The Flame's Dance: On the interplay between light and heat"
Auram: "The Zephyr's Trail"
Corpus: "Blood and Bone: The Explorers' Guide to Human Anatomy"
Terram: "Uncovering the Bones of the Earth"
Herbam: "A Study of the Growth and Nature of Seed-Bearing Flora"
Magic Theory: "On the Interactions of Forms and Techniques"
Penetration: "The Wizard's Awl"
We don't currently have texts in Magic Theory or Penetration. Of course we could allocate points for them, or one of the parens characters could write them...
