Call for ArM5 Errata

Games Discussion Ars Magica
43

Oh, this is odd. I caught this one and submitted it a couple years ago, but the errata were never corrected so I'll send it again here:

The guideline as published is "Dispel a Hermetic enchantment with a level less than the guideline level used + a stress die (no botch). Spell must be a ritual” (HoH:TL p.75). Disenchant doesn’t take the 1 magnitude for Range Touch into account. So it should only work on effects 5 levels lower than listed. So...

Disenchant (core book p.160): Replace "the level of this spell + a stress die (no botch) equals or exceeds” with “(the level of this spell - 5 + a stress die (no botch)) equals or exceeds”.

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44

In city and guild a craftsman of expensive good or merchant makes 20 MP a year, while in Lords of men a landed noble also has an income of 20 MP per year, meaning a goldsmith or merchant makes as much money as a landed noble, and that a typical covenant makes 5x what a nobleman with the same estate would make.

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45

Clarify T:Circle, ArM5 p112

The spell affects everything within a ring drawn by the magus at the time of casting,

Hmm. I was unclear with my parentheses. Let's try and make it a bit more explicit.

everything (within a ring [drawn by the magus])(at the time of casting)
vs
everything (within a ring [drawn by a magus {at the time of casting}])

"at the time of casting" can be validly interpreted to apply either to "when the ring must be drawn" or to "when the target must be inside it". Either reading is grammatically correct, but which one is semantically correct cannot be determined from the sentence along, and must be decided from context.

If "at the time of casting" applies solely to "when the target must be inside it", then it does not apply to "when the ring must be drawn"; you could draw your circle years in advance and then R:Voice T:Circle D:Ring to pop up a ward on that circle over there from way over here. This is blatantly not what is intended.

Equally, if "at the time of casting" applies solely to "when the ring must be drawn", then it does not apply to "when the targets must be inside it", and so targets which enter the ring during the spell's duration are affected by it, which is less blatantly but still fairly clearly not what the writers intended.

Consequently, it's my belief that "at the time of casting" was clearly intended to apply to both "when the ring must be drawn and "when the target must be inside it", but that reading is grammatically incorrect; "at the time of casting" must* apply to exactly one of the other two phrases.

The result is some nitpicky ambiguity.

*as I understand it, anyway; I will freely admit it has been over a decade since I was last had sentence diagramming inflicted upon me. Anyway it doesn't matter; if I'm wrong and "at the time of casting" can correctly modify both of the other phrases at once, it merely increases the number of valid interpretations of the sentence from two to three; it's still ambiguous and still needs rephrasing.

(edit: original post mostly rewritten for [hopefully] clarity)

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46

at the time of the casting could also modify everything, and thus apply to both of the other prepositional phrases. However technically a ring could be drawn a decade previous but would still need to be traced as part of the casting- if "at the time of the casting" were to modify "inside the circle" that would not eliminate the fact that a circle must be draw at the time of the casting as specified elsewhere.

47

Never mind. :slight_smile:

48

Places where a Pace is strangely defined as a "yard". This is obviously an error that crept in innocently in an older edition that needs to be corrected.

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49

Hi,

Either Winter's Icy Grip (and similar spells) need to have requisites, Curse of the Desert needs to lose its requisites, or this post needs to move to a thread about clarifying rules.

Anyway,

Ken

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50

Losing your body heat can happen in seconds, in the right circumstances - think of jumping in ice cold water. Being dehydrated within a few seconds isn't possible without also burning to a crisp. Thus, perdo aquam just isn't enough on its own for curse of the desert to work without a corpus requisite because you need to literally target the water inside the body, whereas chilling the surface temperature of the skin is enough.

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51

Hi,

I don't think any of this is relevant to Hermetic Magic.

Winter's Icy Grip is targeting the heat in the victim's body, but that's Corpus as surely as the victim's blood is Corpus. Alternatively (or additionally), Hermetic Magic targets things the magus can see, and the thing being seen here, ie, the victim, is Corpus.

Real world physics about dehydration do not necessarily exist in Mythic Europe. Less importantly, your analysis cannot be correct because it cannot be based on any actual data about what happens when the water in a human body suddenly disappears, as if by magic, because this experiment cannot be run, for obvious reasons. I'm not at all sure that your assertion is correct, and I expect that Ars Magica game rules do not require players to have sufficient background in physics to figure this out, one way or the other.

Anyway,

Ken

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52

Data is irrelevant here. A basic understanding of body heat and dehydratation don't require knowledge of modern physics. This isn't about thermodynamics. If you think anyone in mythic europe believes instant dehydratation is an effect that can occur in nature, I don't know what to tell you.

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53

Hi,

I consider none of this relevant to the issue I raise, which is about Hermetic Forms, and not about whether something occurring in nature or not suddenly changes the Form involved.

And if I'm missing something, which happens but I think not here, then the rules ought to explain this aspect of Hermetic Magic Theory which I have clearly missed.

Anyway,

Ken

54

Here is what I think you missed: Ignem doesn't need a requisite if it's just heating/cooling just like you don't need a Corpus requisite to change the image of a person with Imaginem and you don't need a Corpus requisite to inflict Warping on a person. But in the case of Aquam it says

Aquam spells affect water and all other liquids. They cannot affect liquids in a body, such as blood; that requires a Corpus spell.

But since it's a strong Aquam effect, it becomes PeAq with Co or An or other requisites rather than PeCo or PeAn or similar based on the rules for requisites.

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55

Hi,

This is indeed what I missed.

Thanks!

Anyway,

Ken

56

Also of signifigance is that if you could instantly drop core body temperature by even a degree or two this would have a massive PeCo effect compared to simply chilling the body as if it has been exposed to extreme cold. While I have been in weather which can cause frostbite in 3 seconds, the effects of even a 3 degree core temperature drop (say while scuba diving, another experience I have had) is slower but has a much more profound impact for the amount of heat lost. A Pe(Ig)Co effect which dropped core body temperature could exist which has a much more profound effect than Winter's Icy Grip. Similarly a PeAq(Au) spell with a really long duration could dehydrate a person over a prolonged period of time if they don't drink enough water. It is worth noting this can occur in both extremely cold and extremely hot environments naturally.

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58

Salve!

Here are some possible errata. Thank you.

ArM5 Core

p. 92. There are some phrases where it is said: "a Bjornaer", not "a Bjornaer magus / maga" as it should be.

Houses of Hermes: True Lineages

page 9: "In 1011, magi Trianomae convinced the Primus of House Guernicus to call an emergency Grand Tribunal instead of the Regular Tribunal meetings to deal with the situation." But in the Timeline (p.144): "1010. The inner council of Magvillus summons thirty Guernicus magi to the domus magna to perform the “Curse of Thoth” ritual." The year don't match.

p.143; The Leadworker Virtue says: "They may also make kolossoi that contain fixed arcane connections, taken from the bodies of their victims, without spending vis or study time." And after: "A Kolossos constructed with a sympathetic connection from the body of the victim imbedded in it (+3)". I think "arcane connection" should be used throughout.

Houses of Hermes: Mystery Cults

p.33. In the third column, first paragraph: “He needs to have a Rego Corpus Lab Total of 20”. It should be “Rego Animal” instead.

p.35. In the penultimate paragraph of the third column, the spell Speak with the Living Flame should be Words of the Flickering Flame.

p.37. "Bad Reputation" Flaw should be "Outsider".

p.43. In the "animal creation example: Bear" chart, in Qualities appear "Fast Runner", but not in the detailed creation.

p.67. “the avenue of Befriending the silent and the station that charms the elements”. The Target Level should be 21 - 3, for a total of 18, because it is the third Initiation since Major Ordeal.

p.86. "Inoffensive to (Beings)" in ArM5 is "General, Hermetic", not only "General".

Along the Verditius chapter you can read: “greater enchanted item”. I think it should be “invested item”.

p.125. Reforging Enchanted Items, first paragraph of the second column: “If his adjusted Lab Total is higher than the level of effect”. It should be “higher or equal”.

p.125. Third column, third paragraph: “If the total is higher than the level of effect of the power”. It should be “higher or equal”.

Guardians of the Forests: The Rhine Tribunal

Along all the book appears genius locus, but it should be genius loci.

page 21. The Arts of Trust of Childlike Faith are wrong, should be PeMe and the Casting Total +12; The Eye of the Eons spell should be Eyes of the Eons and InTe 10.

page 23. The Disguise ability should be Guile with a specialization in disguise.

page 23. Chaos of the Angry Wave should be level 30.

page 23. In the insert, Felicia is sometimes called Felecia (Felecia in p.85).

page 38. Immortality of the Forest is General, wouldn't it be better Supernatural?

page 43. "[...] 1220 the current duke, Dietrich III, dies and is succeeded by Matthew II." I cannot found Dietrich as duke of Lorraine, but Theobald I.

page 59. Philippus has Encumbrance 3(3), but only has clothes, dagger and longsword (total load = 1).

page 59. Chaos of the Angry Waves should be ReAq 30 not 20.

page 60. Apromor is named Apromar a couple of times.

page 73. Imanitos has Decrepitude: 0(2), but only 1 point in Qikness.

page 73. Imanitos should have dagger attack +3 (Dex -1, Brawl(dagger) 1(+1), Dagger Atk +2).

page 73. The spell Disguise of the Transformed Wizard should be Disguise of the Transformed Image.

page 73. The spell Recollection of Memories Never Quite Lived should be MuMe 4.

page 73. The total for Disguise of the Transformed Wizard (MuIm15) should be +24.

page 96. (again) Chaos of the Angry Waves should be level 30 not 20.

page 106. I think the encumbrance is wrong: half scale mail (4) + great sword (2) + lance (2) = 8 total load, hence burden = 3 and encumbrance = 2. Maybe the equipment should be full scale mail (load 7)?

page 106. Piercing Shaft of Wood should be level 10 not 15, and The Treacherous Spear should be level 25 not 15.

page 117. Hilda Short Bow Initiative should be -3, not -4.

page 117 Hilda Grapple damage should be n/a, not +4.

page 117. I think Hilda encumbrance should be 1 (full scale armor 7 + mace 2 + heater shield 2 + short bow 2 + pole axe 2 = 15, burden 5).

page 118. I'm not sure, but Crumena is a feminine latin name. Should it be Crumena filia Mercere instead filius Mercere?

page 119. Byrek: I think the Defense with Fist should be +6 (Brawl(fist) 2(+1) + Qik 3).

page 119. Byrek: the Encumbrance should be 3 (3). LOAD: long spear 3 + axe 1 + round shield 2 + heavy leather armor 3 = 9; BURDEN: 3, hence the initiative should be recalculated.

page 120. I cannot find anything about Longastisheim (near Bingen, at south). Could it be Langenlonsheim?

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59

Houses of Hermes Mystery cults p.137- Alexandrite was first discovered in Russia in the 1830's. It is anacronistic in Ars Magica
so is hickory (same location) which is native to North America.

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60

First one in the errata now. Personal powers can also have constant duration (page 41), and this one does, so it is OK.

Thanks!

61

They are indeed. Changed to "equals or exceeds" in the first instance. Also changed the sentence about multiple texts. Thanks!

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62

The problem with "Unmarked Passage" is not that it has Constant Effect, but that it has range Touch. Personal powers can not have any range except Personal. You will notice that in my corrected text (which you copy/pasted) the modifier for Constant Effect is still there.