Captive Magi

Agreed. I think a guy that tortures people with the same feelings of indifferance as a cook making hot dogs might be more dangerous and a better candidate for the legions of hell than one who eagerly enjoys the act.

Remember that demons can play on despair and remorse as well.

"You've tortured a man. God is through with you. Serve us - it's the only option left to you."


Ohhh! I really like that one. Never really considered it. Yes I see stories ideas with this one. Thanx!

Salvete Sodales!

It has been some days since I visited the board the last time, but I had to hand in an assignment paper and was a bit late. So sorry for going backward, but I would be very much surprised if there was not a single magus in a troupe who could keep a captive indefinitely asleep, at least not in a conveant that is strong enough to succesfully batteling a bunch of infernalists (and to ressurect its grogs). I tried to construct a low level spell that many magi probably will be able to spont, at least if they use ceremonial casting:

Spell: Sleeping beauty (ReMe 15)
R: Touch or Eye (your choice), D: Ring T: Ind
The targetbecomes sleepy and falls asleep within a few seconds. It can not wake up unless it is taken out of the circle or that circle is broken.
(Base 4, +1 Touch, +2 Ring)

The Casting Total will be:
(Re+Me+Stamina+Aura Modifier+Artes Liberales+Philosophiae+2(for loud words and exagerated gestures)+stress die)/2

If it is close you might be willing to spend a bit of vis (compared to the amount allready lost on the bastards it won't be much) or just to try two or three times. Never forget to ask the guy with Life-Linked Spontaneous Magic or Life Boost to give you a hand if they exist.
Of course this solution is only viable if you don't need to talk to the guy from time to time.

About torture: As the PeVi or ReVi effects you mentioned above this will usually cause extreme penaltys on your captive, but theoretically he will be able to use magic - basically he should start with one or two 1s on his stress die.

By the way: Are you sure you can continue your experiments after a infernalist's death? A soul going directly to hell might only be slightly less complicate to contact than one in heaven.

Alexios ex Miscelanea (aka Lars Gerlach)

Alexios ex Miscellanea: :slight_smile:

Assuming a Spont spell:

(Re+Me+Stamina+Aura Modifier+Artes Liberales+Philosophiae+2(for loud words and exagerated gestures)+stress die)/2

Meaning: (Re+Me+Stamina+Aura+2 (loud etc)+Non stress/5)

  • No choice in that I would need a CT of 75... :open_mouth:
    Now including my LA and Phil, that raises it to a 7.5+/ four pawns should bring it up to 15...
    I guess that doable, but I hate the cost...maybe I'll get a Diedne to cast it...

Are you sure you can continue your experiments after a infernalist's death?

Well, there is still a body for study..hehe

My thanks for your input.

You have the Weak Spont flaw and can't exert yourself? Then you don't get the die either, at least in 5e rules: add stress die and divide by 2 or add no die and divide by 5.

I'm not sure when the vis addition is counted. I suppose it should be after the division to not be useless.

Of course there's always the view that since he was unconscious when you brought him in the Aegis he was "invited" so he doesn't have to worry about that...

And once he's in that’s a perfect gateway for the infernal that he is bound with to act freely :smiling_imp:

But what kinda story guide would be so mean =p


He wasn't given a token. And any resident can "uninvite" him at will. Work harder, Mean SG. :slight_smile:

The fact that you "need a token" when your invited in and that "you can be uninvited at will" seems contradictory. If you have a token which was part of the ritual, it seems wrong that you can be uninvited with out removing that token. If you dont have to remove the token then it is a purely symbolic gesture such as carrying someone inside your tower, and hence is unneeded

Conservative design, It is hard to invite someone in and easy to kick them out. Notatus was a product of pre-Order Europe.

Salvete Sodales!

Wulfenbach wrote:

Unfortunately not. Any boni (from Artes Liberales, Philosophiae, loud voice, exaggerated gestures, vis boosting) are added to the casting score. The usual casting total for fatiguing spontaneous magic is: (casting score + stress die)/2 (cf. Core Rules, p.81-83).
Yes, this certainly turns the use of vis in sponts into an even more extreme waste than it has become anyway as method to boost a spell.

So this certainly won't work for Urien's Char. Sorry, I never considered that anybody would cripple himself with that particular flaw.

So, go ahead with the suggested mundane methods. I would opt for: "Chop off the head and be done with it." But it is your risk.

Alexios ex Miscelanea (aka Lars Gerlach)

There is still at least one effective method to boost spells with vis - but it requires a virtue from HoHTL. Mutantum Magic or the sub set virtue Boosted Magic allows boosting at 1 pawn per magnitude.

This can also be done by the mastery technique Boosting - a way of translating the virtue so that it is partially useable by others.


Alexios ex Miscellanea:

So this certainly won't work for Urien's Char. Sorry, I never considered that anybody would cripple himself with that particular flaw.


Ah, but watch my Ritual casting total....or my lab total for that matter. When I designed the character, I saw there would be a LOT of other Magi capable of doing the "off the cuff" stuff...but someone to do the Aegis, make the items, or create the Longevity rituals... :slight_smile:
The game has changed a bit since we started, and now the situation is even better...We currently have one of those guys in our group, so spont spells aren't a long as we are together...
...but we were talking about MY project, not the Covenant's.

Sorry to jump in when the discussion's already been going for a while, but these are my thoughts on keeping a magus imprisoned:

Alexios suggestion of a sleeping spell is a good one, but it has the potential downside that the ensorcelled magus would presumably starve to death within a few days. My apologies for spoiling an otherwise excellent idea. One could, I suppose cast a Creo Corpus spell with the same duration to sustain the captive. The suggestion of transforming one's prisoner to stone seems like quide a sensible idea, albeit rather drastic.

The ideal solution, to my mind, would be some sort of continuous Rego Vim (Suppress a spell cast by another with a level less than half the [level + 5 magnitudes] of the Vim spell), or Perdo Vim (Reduce the casting total for all magic cast by the target by half the [level + 2 magnitudes] of the Vim spell) effect. Creating an enchanted device (a pair of shackles, for instance), or an enchanted dungeon would seem the most practical way to achieve this. One might well expect formulaic spells based upon the above guidelines to be an important part of the arsenal employed by the Quaesitoris to hunt down anathematised magi.

Is that a sensible or useful answer? It at least avoids all that time-consuming and morally questionable torturing...

I almost gave my first mage Weak Spont, balanced by Flexible Formulaic.

The Great Sun Jester:

While excellent suggestions, they are all suggestions that are not feasable RIGHT NOW. I certainly can make manacles and such "Wonderful Toys", but the problem is Now...hence the origin of the question... :slight_smile:
I do believe the "Sleep" spell is a good answer, because it would allow a good nights sleep, and then a continuation in the morning... :unamused:
Of course feeding the prisoner would be on the list of "To Do" things..but he certainly wouldn't starve in a few days...lack of water would kill him in a few days, but food isn't really an issue..for several weeks anyway. I certainly won't waste a lot of food on someone that I was planning on disposing of anyway... :imp:
That does bring up another good point though....

Whats the penalty to spell casting for Starvation?

That could be important.


Starvation penalties are covered on page 180-181 of the core, under "Deprivation". Stamina checks, fatigue levels, etc.

Or design the spell with a Creo requisite.