Cornelius can certainly act as a spokesman in a meeting with Castra Solis. His status as a Quaesitor in good standing, although a junior one, should help establish good relations. I think at least one other magus should come with him, though. Having Bastion present for the meeting, as the disceptator of our new covenant, would certainly be a show of respect and be percieved positively.
Just read through F&F pp.22-25.
I think that St.Avery could approach Ara Maxima Nova for the purpose of trading books. They are fairly small and our interests do not overlap theirs, so they should at least be neutral. Getting their support for our covenant to be recognized at the beginning of the Tribunal should be possible.
Elizabeth could approach Bellaquin to gain their support for early recognition as well. Again, a secondary topic of book trading (as well as vis). She would need to be careful on the subject of mundane relations, as we have limited interest on involving ourselves in mundane politics.
Clovis might approach one of the other covenants, perhaps even The Coenobium. They will be one of our closest neighbours, so at least establishing a neutral relationship with them would be good. We express that we don't oppose their goals, but could reasonably express our concern with their political power and geographical expansion.
That would leave the Ostal des Exiles, Stella Durus, Toltosa Paratge and Miniata Sophia. We will at least want to touch-base with them, as a courtesy and to get to know them a little (and get known in return). That might be during a second round of meetings.
By the way, does Clovis share anything that he's learned from his Tremere contacts?
Well I haven't learned more that what pralix said, my contact was from Aedes Mercurii and indeed they're mostly pagan so unsurprisingly they don't see any meddling with the church or he Cathar with a good eye. Also they're against the development of Chapter houses.
I haven't discussed any votes or political trade-off tough, it was too early at the time.
With Aedes Mercurii being allied to the Tremere and opposed to the Coenobium I'm not sure i'm the best suited person to discuss with the later. I can discuss other matters with Aedes on the other hand.
Would Clovis prefer to push the contact with Aedes Mercurii further? My initial thoughts were that the covenant might not see it well that we appear to align ourselves with Castra Solis, but if we can at least make it known to them that we have a neutral stance regarding Aedes, then they might be willing to support our early recognition for the Tribunal. Even if we can simply split the Aedes vote, so that some of them are in favour of early recognition, then it would be a win for us. But I don't expect them to become friends if we ally ourselves with Castra Solis, even losely.
Hum, we might be able to get both to vote for us by adopting a neutral view on mundane and dominion, but not without showing a strong opposition against Coenobium, this is the only opinion they share... I'd be quite at odd with my House if we end us being hostile to Aedes without any reasons other than pure politics.
I think that our stance leans more towards isolationism: avoid mundane interference, avoid opposing or supporting the crusade. We are relatively neutral on the subject of chapter houses -- we are not against the concept but have concerns that it can be too much of a good thing if it leads to hegemony -- so we would be in favor of some limiting ruling.
Does that summarizes our position correctly?
If it does, from what I can read in F&F pp.22-25, here is how we would probably see the various covenants:
Castra Solis (17 votes): Our goals don't really align with those of Castra Solis, as it is strongly pro-Crusade and pro-Church.
Aedes Mercurii (18 votes): As they are strongly opposed to Castra Solis, they might see us as possible allies.
Coenobium (20 votes): We are far enough from them to avoid being seen as enemies. But they are strongly allied with Castra Solis. And if we support a ruling to limit chapter houses they won't like us.
Bellaquin (5 votes): They delight in mundane affairs, but are favorable to new covenants.
Ara Maxima Nova (4 votes): Neutral towards new covenants.
Ostal des Exiles (6 votes): Focused on the defense of Toulouse against Northerners, so they are opposed to the Crusade. Our isolationist stance would not help them, so they would be at best neutral towards us.
Stella Durus (5 votes): Neutral.
Tolosa Paratge (9 votes): Internally divided between pro-Crusade and pro-Cathars. Will ignore us if we don't take sides.
Minitia Sophia (4 votes): Apolitical. They might see us as allies since we are relatively apolitical as well.
Overall, it seem that our chances of being recognized early during the Tribunal are slim if we don't align with Castra Solis, unless we can convince at least some of the magi of the Coenobium to support us. There are about 88 votes in the Tribunal. Between them, Castra Solis and the Coenobium control 37 of those.
The question is, how much do we want to be recognized early?
One possibility that we haven't discussed is to ally ourselves with the Coenobium, hinting that we might be willing to become a chapter house eventually. But if we change our mind later, they might become enemies.
I'm cool with St. Avery going along to the smaller covenants to set up a book trade.
Yeah, that sounds about right. On a scale of +5/-5, we're really just +1/-1 on most of the issues. None of the magi have story elements that really deal with Crusades/Cathars, political chapterhousing, or the Reconquista. (By it's very nature, this covenant was set up for us all to go up in the mountains and research for a decade or three.)
Yeah - do we actually care about being recognized? I mean, it looks like the voting is such that the 3 main power blocks can pretty much do what they want; our 5(?) votes won't actually do much. Also - if we can guarantee that we're going to get voted on at the end anyway, there's little reason to make any sort of political promises if it's not worth it.
@Pralix, are we aware of what (generally) is going to be voted on during the Tribunal, other than "chapterhouse stuff, Crusade stuff, Reconquista stuff"?
A neutral stance is certainly possible -- we might put it out that we don't know enough yet to take a position either way. This might make building up trade more difficult, as none of the big players will have any incentive in helping us grow quickly, but at least it will not corner us too much. I won't make us popular with anyone (except perhaps some of the other neutrals) but at least it won't make us any outright enemies.
In fact, Cornelius would be very much in favor of a neutral stance. It might make his job as a Quaesitor easier.
So, are we ready to publicize our stance to everyone? If so, Cornelius will start with a second meeting with Beatrix, with probably some official meeting with Castra Solis. I'll let each of you decide which covenant your magus approaches, though my previous suggestions stand.
Sounds fine - St. Avery can go visit the smaller covenents and set up the book trade, and incidently mention the relevant neutrality (or slight preference, if it fits with that covenent's politics)
I think the final conclusion we've come to is "that upon further reflection, we don't actually care." - So, Isolationist/conservative by apathy (or at least, lack of interest in the particular political issues).
EDIT - and in reading up on the NPC's of the various covenants (that we've likely already talked to at least once, in doing the rounds), it looks like St. Avery is actually a REALLY good fit to go talk to Stella Durus, as it actually looks to be a near-sister of our covenant, in terms of makeup and temperament...including two research-oriented Bonisagus. (Plus a research-oriented Flambeau, of all things.) Also, in terms of temperament, St. Avery would probably really hit it off with the head of their covenant, in terms of "let's talk about magic theory for hours on end!"
@Pralix, St. Avery would like to go chat up the magi at Stella Durus - where are they encamped?
No, you're not. I'm limiting the information you get to work with to what I think is appropriate to the numbers on the sheets. That allows you to play politics, but makes it harder to do so, and saves us the trouble of rolling all the time.
@Pralix, St. Avery would like to go chat up the magi at Stella Durus - where are they encamped?
Sure, you can do that. Just remember, you only get to talk to one covenant each (to speed things up mostly, although I could point to numbers on sheets as an explanation, too).
Stella Duris have erected a huge tent in the shape of a five-pointed star. It has been made of some velvety, water-repellent material. A brook emerges from within the tent. Everyone is invited to drink from it: the water is cool, refreshing, and acording to grogs from Stella Duris, entirely safe to drink, which is quite a marvel considering the difficulties of Hermetic Magic with creating permanent food-stuffs. If you are asking around, the brook was there at the last two tribunals at least, and provided the tribunals with a reliable source of water. There are some fit-looking grogs about, many of them wearing their beards cut in a fashion popular in the southern regions of the tribunal - talking to them will likely grant you an audience. Alternatively, you can wait for Stella Duris' Flambeau member to do his daily knightly training in the morning hours from sunrise until the sun has risen about half the way.
(if you decide to visit them, please use the ic thread)
Isn't the creation of a spring like the creation of a horse or raincloud? Ie, the created object is magical, but anything that comes out of it (either manure, or rain, or springwater) is considered a natural consequence? I was under the impression it was one of those "differences between a medieval understanding of a thing compared to the modern understanding (ie, what exactally a spring/geyser is and what it does.)" That being said, it's certainly a nice thing to have, and it's certainly nice that someone who knows more about Creo and Aquam cast it (so as to not have to /2 spont or else waste a season learning it.)
OK - to be honest, St.Avery's not really doing all that great a job at selling their position. This is by design, as I would imagine that most magi actually kinda suck at politicking, unless they are actively interested in it, and/or belong to one of the few branches that specialize in that sort of thing. So really, I wouldn't be surprised if he fails in this particular attempt, as there isn't really any benefit to for these particular magi to vote to add them to the Tribunal roster, except in order to get more people who might vote the same way they do. Which may work, except that "we don't care" really isn't all that strong a position to take that really gets people fired up for political action.