I was more worried about traps left behind, such as around labs or left by those that attacked. Good to know there's nothing other than what we encountered in the labs below.
Chris
Possible I'm misunderstanding you here, in which case apologies. I'm not convinced that trying to build a house around already existing and carefully laid out glassware would work - it seems a recipe for broken and moved stuff. If it's left as the mocked up shelters, I think most magi would turn their noses up at them. I also think it would take an awful lot of wards/ a fairly solid building for the lab ware not to get destroyed or damaged over time.
I think we do have a bit of space available. As far as I can tell, we have:
- The Ignem lab. Aura 5.
- The lab on the second floor of the caves (possible flooding risk, possibly already set up - not clear there). Aura 4.
- Might be possible to set up a lab in the big cave, around the infirmary (or just kick Petrus out). Aura 5.
- Possibly Aetos' old room. Not sure how big this is, presumably now being used by Patrick. Aura 4.
- Soon to be Portia's old room. Again, not sure how big this is. Aura 4.
- Possibly the other magi's rooms, depending on how big they are and whether anyone really wants to sleep amidst their equipment. Would give the minor virtue Living Quarters (+1 GQ, -1 Safety. -2 Health, -2 Aesthetics). Aura 4.
- Maybe somewhere else I've missed?
MTKnife, how feasible are these? And how much stone/dressed timber do we have available, measured in buildings?
Which labs have the three covenant founders decided they want? Tasia will probably help Petrus move to a new spot and take that location over once she's figured out which spots there are. However, we need more spots to provide the requisite number of visitor labs.
In general, traps are less likely outside sancta--aside from the obvious safety issues, they pose a danger of Code violation.
Scott
Salutor is right that there are several already-usable spaces. There are four rooms on the first floor of the caves, though two of those were storerooms (one of which I think is where Petrus set up the infirmary), and they're smaller than standard labs, and yes, there's also a usable lab (not flooded) on the second floor. There are ersatz living quarters (the ones occupied by magi are officially sancta) in the one intact building, but none of those are nearly big enough to be labs; if you moved several people out into other temporary quarters, you could create a lab in there, but it would be subdivided, creating (at the very least) the Minor Structural Flaw Awkward Shape (-2 Safety, -1 Aesthetics)--move everyone out, and you could fit two labs in that building. And finally, the faerie regio will provide a lab for Viola.
That gives us 4 clearly usable lab spaces, and possibly 4 more, and the covenant's charter requires us to set up 10 (which is the number for which we've received sufficient vis to set up--I originally posted 64 pawns, but the number should have been 78, which is enough for 4 of the better labs and 6 of the lesser ones). Salutor is right that it's better to cast the lab rituals in situ, but on the other hand, regular lab equipment and tools are usually created elsewhere, brought into the lab space, and then set up. To put it in game terms: if Portia casts a ritual in a given space, the lab is set up in that space, ready to go, and since the Refinement is 0, it doesn't take a season to take over; if Portia creates the equipment and it has to be moved into its permanent space later, it will take someone two seasons to set up, as for a normal lab.
We could rebuild one building by scavenging the ruins. We could get more, assuming we deal with the flooding, from the rubble in the caves, but that stone wouldn't be dressed. Mind you, the whole plateau is limestone, meaning we can quarry all we want in the caves. Timber is a little more of an issue, but there's a forest not far away.
On another note...after a private talk with Portia, Viola suggests that the Council give Portia enough vis to restore her familiar's Might, and perhaps a couple of pawns more, since her familiar's healing power was used to promote good relations with the locals.
Scott
OK, I checked to see how much vis would be required, and now I'm confused: when Portia complained about "damage done to her familiar", I was assuming that the caladrius must have Temporary Might (that is, it recovers Might slowly, and only in an Magic aura), but it doesn't, and given the cost of the power in question (4 Might points) and the creature's total Might of 14, it would take under 8 hours to recover the Might with no aura, or under 4 hours in the aura of 4 underground. (This is putting aside for a moment the fact that a caladrius will gladly volunteer to cure diseases (to the point of having Compassionate as a Flaw.) Am I missing something? Is Portia referring to something else?
Scott
It was a ritual power. Ritual powers lower Magic Might, not just Might Pool.
Chris
Ah...frigging complicated rules. It's SG discretion, but one of the recommendations is one pawn of vis per point of Might, which would be 4 pawns in this case. Could we therefore give Portia, say, 5 pawns in compensation?
Scott
What are the sizes of all those caves/rooms?
Chris
You can check the maps in the Covenant thread. Two of the three cave labs are standard-sized, while the other is considerably larger (about double-sized, I think). The regio lab will be double-sized, as is normal for a regio lab.
Scott
Ah, I see there's some confusion. Where is Petrus setting up his infirmary? We'll want to give him a dedicated space separate from the labs eventually, I'm sure.
Well, the two storerooms are near labs, but one of them ought to do--and the one on the north side of the main cave on the first level is fairly isolated from labs.
Scott
OK. Tasia will choose one of those for Petrus since he's just getting started. If no one objects, Tasia would like to use "Big Lab."
The storeroom on the north side ought to be sufficient for Petrus. It's nearly 20'x30'.
Indeed. I think I drew the rooms in the caves bigger than I intended--the other storeroom is actually just the right size for a standard lab (500 sq. ft.), and the lab with the hypocaust is roughly Size +4 (1250 sq. ft.), and the "big lab" looks like a +6 (2000 sq. ft.). On the second level, the one open lab looks like a Size +1 (650 sq. ft.). Do you guys agree with those estimates of the areas?
And yes, Tasia is certainly welcome to the big lab, as far as Viola is concerned.
Scott
OK, then she'll let Vrahos work on getting the big lab set up. Clearing it out will be his favorite part, and Tasia will warn people to be careful moving past its entrance. (I assume we've already spent money to get other needed equipment to set up the labs (5 lb per lab) and so only need to put in the seasons now.)
In the meantime Tasia will keep an eye out for the ghosts. She also expects the other magi may call upon her help.
Let me preface this by saying that I'm short on sleep and heavy on stress this weekend. If my tone comes across as terse, please trust that this is a product of the sleep deprivation. My only goal is to figure out how to take the particular circumstances we face and build a memorable-feeling covenant out of them.
I think this is where the big difference is, in terms of our perspectives about what the spell is creating. You seem to be saying that the spell would create a substantial amount of glass. I assumed the spell was creating the furniture and tools necessary for a workshop-like space, and that due to the particulars of Portia's spell, the glass elements would be supernaturally perfect.
For example, using the diagram of a "Standard Hermetic Laboratory and Sanctum" in Covenants, pg 105: I assume the spell is creating not just the beakers, cauldrons, scales, astrolabes, mirrors and glass jars for specimens, but also the bookshelves, tables, desks, etc.
So, that's one thing I need to understand: what, exactly, does the spell create?
The other assumption which I'm making is about the effects of the wards Patrick is casting. Requoting, for clarity:
So, based on the descriptions of the circle wards in the MRB, I believe Patrick is creating a sphere of protection which won't let any non-magical object, element, or force into without the intent of a creature with MR, with a very small chance of failure (admittedly, that failure would be a botch, which, given his Weird Magic flaw, might be quite odd indeed, but that is part of the appeal for me). He could reduce the Mentem wards to make them more likely to succeed, as well.
Since mundane creatures, objects and forces can't penetrate the circle, I'm assuming it would be pretty easy to build around that without breaking the things inside. As a lesser example, what would happen if a carpenter dropped a plank of wood across a Herbam ward-circle?
Based on these assumptions, I thought the dangers you're worried about were minimized to an acceptable level.
These are decisions that can be deferred to after the ghosts show up. I'd like to limit our discussion to how to best use the time and resources (including Portia) we have before then. (And, because this week I've been saying, "Wasn't that obvious to everyone else?" a lot this week, I'm focused on this because I'd like to turn the cantankerous departure of Portia into an enjoyable story element, rather than a logistics nightmare, which is what it feels like to me right now -- I may very well be the only person troubled by it, though. (Am I?))
Tangent: I'm greatly amused by Petrus having the biggest lab space for an infirmary, and am wondering if we can turn that into our income source.
I'm not actually sure where any of these may be. Last I heard, the only buildings are the kitchen, a two story villa-like building where you found Theodric, and a dilapidated 2-story tower, and the caves as mapped in those two image links.
Good question. I've been assuming these would eventually be in plentiful supply, but that we have none currently.
The spell description in Covenants implies that it mimics the Virtues Flawless Equipment and Flawless Tools--the former includes glass, so yes, it does create glass, but at the same time, neither of those Virtues requires that the items in question be created inside the lab. The advantage of the spell, as I noted in my earlier post, is that the lab doesn't have to be set up.
Absolutely. That's one reason labs require Upkeep (expendable supplies is the other), and why Superior and Flawless Tools and Equipment require greater Upkeep.
I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Have you had a look at the maps?
Actually, I'm not sure I made the labs the size I intended, and I'm starting to wonder if bigger labs will require more equipment. A strict reading of the Covenants rules indicates that they do, but at the same time that Flawless or Superior Equipment and Tools don't add extra Upkeep (or incur additional expense to gain) for larger labs.
Scott
EDIT: Actually, Covenants doesn't indicate extra equipment for a larger lab--it does require more Upkeep, but only if it's Empty. So I guess that isn't a problem, at least.
Another option is The Ambulatory Laboratory (ReTe30, on the same page as Laboratory of Bonisagus), which will move a lab without having to set it up again, but there's a good chance of getting the Flaw DIsorganized that way, esp. if the shape or size of the new room is different. Mind you, we might decide to allow that Flaw to be removed during Refinement, just as Highly Organized can be added that way.
Scott
It's ReTe50.
Chris