[color=red]Do not allow your anger to rule you. Are you sworn to inflict pain on a helpless prisoner? Or to endanger our covenant by denying us valuable information? Or to deny justice in blatant disregard for human life and for your sodales? You have done one and are perilously close to doing the others.
[color=red]What hubris. You have no idea what she has gone through. Have you peered into her soul and found her wanting? Surely only your God can do that. She is filled with anger. Whether she is evil beyond redemption remains to be seen.
[color=red]Mercy is to try to redeem her and heal her wounds. I think, in your heart, you know this. Do not distort your oaths to mean what you want them to mean.
What does the Scripture say… ‘Whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also’?
[color=red]We can tell if she lies. We have gotten no useful information about her motivation or the forces she has arrayed against us. We have the potential to gain it. Given a little time and Intellego magic, even her lying will not be a detriment to us. Keeping her alive is not only the moral course, but the prudent one.
She is still benefiting from Krispin’s previous healing spells, I assume, which ought to prevent her from dying (and in fact will probably stabilize her quite shortly). Am I missing something here? If she appears to be in danger, Krispin will tend to that immediately.
In game terms, she has a heavy wound and then a incapacitating wound. Quite stressing on anybody as the Evisceration of a thousand knifes is something that makes you bleed a lot. Yes there is a need for some magical first aid.
If she appears in immediate danger, Krispin will Bind those wounds in the short term, and use Chirurgy and Creo Corpus magic as soon as the Bind Wound spell wears off. He will also use Probe the Secrets of the Flesh to guide his hand in healing in case there’s something fishy going on.
[color=blue]She should currently have the +12 to recovery rolls for at least one moon (probably longer due to Enduring Magic) from when Krispin treated her for the first casting of Evisceration a few days ago. Doesn’t that take care of it, or are we in a different situation entirely?
[color=red]I leave scripture to my Brother , I have not the temperment for it. For such as her there can be no redemption in life her crimes have earned her death. Perhaps God can forgive her I cannot .
And perhaps I have a better perspective on the trails of growing up with the Gift than yourself Krispin, yours is a most unnusual gift.
I am not acting out of anger , this is a carefully considered action. I do not beleive there is useful information to be gained from her and when there is no use for her there is no reason to continue her life. Initiatlly I believed she may have useful information , now I do not I should have finished her back in the forest.
She will be executed Krispin, Ardeth differs with me on the time but not the fact. You are a good man , certainly a nicer person than me but this is not a situation where kindness is appropriate.
Mariella pauses looking over at Hedwig , clearly regrettng she has not learnt a death spell yet.
[color=red]Whatever we do the arguing over her dieing body is unseemly and needs to end.
Yannick enters...
[color=red]I could smell the blood halfway across the covenant
Looks at Hedwig, then Krispin, then Mariella. sigh
[color=red]Alright, I see....
You know, Mariella, I think we should leave that sort of things to our soon-to-become executioner.
He's been locked up in my sanctum for an unpretty long time now, due to the failings of our quaesitor. As far as I know he's got a score to settle with her just as we do.
[color=red]You remember the woodsman that butchered his wife and her lover? He wouldn't have murdered if she hadn't prepared the scene. We cannot kill him, as it was her fault. But we cannot let him go unpunished. Let him finish her, that's what they both deserve.
Summoning a local spirit that spoke of the "witch of the fountain", or something like that.
Could it be that Hedwig? Or does she know who this is? There's a lot going on here that we don't understand.
Note also that, if she is that witch, she has a lot to tell us.
[color=red]Thank you for the offer, but I take full responsibility for my own actions .
It seems that we have an impasse as we are split on the decision as to wether to kill her now or not. As a decsion must be made quickly may I suggest Certeman?
(Unless I misunderstood Yannick in which case in a 3-1 minority Mariella will accept the majority will)
Heinrich who has been silently observing this discourse the whole time, finally pipes up... [color=red]I am not a tie-breaker, I suppose, but, I vote ... death. It seems to me the law is clear and the law of the faith is intertwined with the law of the land. Capital crimes have been committed and capital punishment is in order.
I shudder to turn over simple duties to Quaesitores when that would seem an invitation - a precedent, even! - to rule more over our covenant because we don't have the code or protocol to handle our own daily business. Guernicus can certainly witness or be one of those Norse ombudsman [color=blue]I'm going out on a limb here. [color=red]But, damned I'll be before we start tenderfooting and avoiding responsibility.
Hedwig, is found devoid of virtue and is a clear and present enough danger to all to be allowed to live.
[color=red]The issue that she may die is still up for debate. What we are missing here is that she has information that we have not pressed her for. Killing her causes us to lose that. I’m not asking that we spare her out of hand… I am saying that killing her at this time is very unwise.
[color=red]There is little room for debate with the self-evident humours and results of her crimes, but perhaps, more evident, we have need for a covenant code to deal with resolution and jurisprudence.
I have a problem with time as any incarceration of Hedwig increases the probability of some event releasing her and therefore threatening the lives of our community.
But if you feel there is so much to learn, then I would insist we personally invest time to ensure her holding. The job so far seems suitable, but we must not let our guard down!
[color=black]And then raising his nose and more than a little pridefully [color=red]A far as Posing of the Silent Question, I believe I am among the best qualified to learn the spell and perform it to the Council's satisfaction, and therefore volunteer.
[color=red]I care not who performs it, only that it gets done. I agree the imprisoning her is a risk, but it is a worthy one. We know very little about her still.
[color=red]This is a somewhat pointless discussion as we do no have a copy of posing the silent question and it will take Heinrich even with the help of another mage about 3 seasons to write the spell. That is a ridicolous and immoral length of time to incarcarate someone. Ridculous as it means that myself or Ardeth have to be on guard at all times unless we chop of her hands and cut her tongue out. And immoral as locking someone up for that length of time is wrong.
If you really want information from her we do not have time to write a mind reading spell there are several ways we can get information form her. Although Krispin will hate them all.
First we torture her until she talks using a truth spell to tell if she is lieing if the majority of the covenant favour that I will do it but I fiind it reprehensible and would rather kill her cleanly.
Second we kill her and keep her skull around and then interrogate her spirit , Heinrich will have plenty of time to write a spell to wring the truth out of a spirit that way as she won't be going anywhere.
If anyone can think of a practical way of getting information in a short space of time that;s fine with me. However as the object of our conversation is slowly bleeding to death , which while I have no objection would render the argument moot .
If the situation is
Yannick and me want her dead, Ardeth and Krispin want her alive at least for now then Unless Heinrich makes a rapid choice . We settle via certeman and then either save her life or put her out of her misery.
[color=blue]Hmmm... covenant records show we do have a copy of Posing...Question. I think my scores are up to learning it in a season. Write the spell?
[color=red]Mariella, I'll have it done in a season. The spell is in our library.
I see two parameters. One, the only reason I see to keep Mariella alive is to glean absolute certainty of her guilt - just about already done - and to see if there is other information to glean from her. Justus and I can get to work on a thorough examination through our magicks while the spell is learned. Perhaps with all this intertribunal politicking she may - by some small chance - have relevant information as she has been lobbying Pomeranian inhabitants against us.
The second parameter is if tribunal proceedings go against us, then we may find ourselves in a different set of circumstances that might - by some odd chance - defer Hedwig's punishment or even release her. This can't happen because our village has experienced death and grievous injury under her control.
I vote death but deferred only to complete a thorough inquiry as to her actions, motivations and other timely and relevant information. I move to make a second vote to delay death for either a shorter (2-7 days?) or longer delay to ascertain what we can.
Justus, what say you about what more we can divine from this miscreant? ... Heinrich suddenly exhales exasperatedly. [color=red]Argh! I'm tired of hearing myself speak! What's the use of delaying much longer? The chances are small she'll provide much usefulness. Thus only delaying to flesh out absolute certainty remains!
[color=red]I should be able to summon her spirit after her death.
[color=red]
If Krispin may learn to Pose the Silent Question, then we should try to learn whatever we can from her, then kill her.
[color=red]I agree wholeheartedly that one of us should learn that most useful spell. If you wish to do it, Heinrich, be my guest.
Krispin doesn’t say anything outright, but appears resigned to bow to the will of the council on the issue of killing Hedwig. He regularly clenches his fists and tries to grind his teeth as quietly as he can during these proceedings.
[color=red]This is a logical course. If nothing else, the information she can provide is worth it.
[color=red] The ‘immoralities’ you propose are clearly in your own mind. May your God have mercy on your soul. Imprisonment does not mean torture. Careful imprisonment for one season does not require pain as you seem to think it does. One season of careful imprisonment is a small price to pay for information, especially because most necromancy requires knowledge of both Mentem and Corpus.
[color=blue]Mariella may not know it IC, but I believe we have established that this isn’t a problem. With the large bonus to recovery rolls from Krispin’s healing spell of a few days ago still in effect, her wounds may even be slowly but visibly closing on the floor.
[quote="4thWrldEuropan"]
[color=blue]Hmmm... covenant records show we do have a copy of Posing...Question. I think my scores are up to learning it in a season. Write the spell?
I missed that there was an updated covenant list and only looked at the original which does not have that spell. Of course the later version does
[color=blue]I think the majority of Ad Fons is for death, but another majority is for learning and utilizing 'Posing of the Silent Question' and so a delay in execution at least.
[color=red]But, damned I'll be before we start tenderfooting and avoiding responsibility.