Chapter Three OOC: Not in Kansas anymore

Yup. The good parts are good, but the lack of books would have meant vis study, which is harsh, as well, as the implemented impossibility to develop Re and Co (although I understand these, and in our situation, it stands to reason that there'd be some ressources lacking). Anyway, ReCo would have been of limited utility given our unknown location.

I'm worried. I want these characters and story to continue and all, but, well, it seems they are not going to :frowning:

Amul has offered to run something.

I could give it a go , but had wanted to play my first pbp for a somewhat longer time.
Not being the most organised person in the world , or particulary computer literate either.
Be happy to try something with the characters , a bit later on ,
if nothing eventuates for the moment.

Though whoever runs anything has only 3 players , as we are down to 4 atm.

Maybe more, depending on what Weylund thinks if/when he gets back, and whether Radagast would want to join the new campaign.

For what it's worth, I can try to help, although my availability may vary :frowning:

I usually have plenty of free time , depending on when people are on the Greenwich Meridian Scale.
Instead of Gold Coins through PayPal , i will accept XP in lieu for professional consultation. :mrgreen:

Alright, so it sounds like people are interested in going in on a campaign together, and since we seem to be lacking in other campaign suggestions, I'll outline the concept that I have:

The game will be set in the Iberian Peninsula. Note that I haven't read any published source material for Iberia in ArM, so I'm not sure how much of this is canon setting, or familiar to you all. The ArM setting is a particularly fertile period of history for Iberia, in that it marks the beginning of the Reconquista movement. The battle of Las Navas de Tolosa in 1212 turns the tide and Christians start reclaiming the peninsula from the Almohad Empire -- who, incidentally, had been slowly creeping across the land for the entire history of the OoH. The Order of Hermes was split three ways on the matter, with one group not-so-secretly allied to the Christian movement, another appreciating the Islamic culture and wishing to protect it, and the third attempting to stay neutral. In this game, Las Navas de Tolosa was a nigh-mythic battle of supernatural powers, with demons, hermetic magi and Arab magicians slinging power around like nobody's business.

Nearly 100 years ago, a charismatic magi built something of a personality cult of magi dedicated to protecting and studying Islamic culture. Fifty years later, a love triangle became a schism, the chain of associated covenants broke apart, and through the political divisiveness that followed, the path to Reconquista was opened. A few years ago, it was revealed that the personality cult leader, along with his most loyal followers, were all demon-tainted. The effort to track them down and stop them led to the battle of Las Navas de Tolosa in 1212 AD.

Most of the pro-Islamic covenants are now tainted by suspicion of devil-worship. Both pro-Christian and pro-Islamic covenant memberships have been reduced to ash, and the careful balance of power in Iberia has been shattered, with the Christian alliance weakened but still more powerful. The sole surviving member of one covenant (ours) made a move out of political desperation -- an open call to magi, offering full membership in exchange for your voting sigil at the tribunal of 1214 AD. The other shattered covenants quickly mimicked the move.

Thus, an entire generation of young magi move into Iberia, for the offers made were appealing to any with a willingness to uproot themselves.

The battle was on July 16th, 1212 AD. The open calls for magi begin in Autumn, 1212.

What do you all think?

To combat my inexperience with the system, I'll want to heavily emphasize troupe-style play, with everyone taking a turn at the helm, running NPCs, grogs, and stories great or small. To help with this, and in contradiction to the current game, flaws which generate story options will be encouraged. Magi will have less than 5 years post-apprenticeship.

I was thinking that it'd be cool to have each player outline a companion concept, which other players pick up and run (for example, I would create Viscaria and specify that she has a traveling minstrel companion, which Fixer chooses to stat out and play). However, given the peculiarities of PbP, that may not be a good idea.

Don't forget that we might be able to talk JM into playing, and can always post a recruitment thread.

Ironically, given the nature of my campaign concept, the title for this sub-forum works just as well.

Only Iberian canonical info I'm aware of dates to the 3rd edition (and, from what I hear, is very focused on infernalism and devils.) Amazon has the book for about US$6 when I checked a couple of minutes ago. And the Ars wiki says that some of the info in there is clearly contradicted by 5th ed.

Assuming that there is still the three schools of thought on the Christian-Muslim Question, that could make some very interesting inter-character political, theological, and philosophical debates, as well.

I'm assuming because most of the magi were killed or twilighted at Las Navas?


So, there are only a handful of magi left in Iberia, but they are quite likely either extremely powerful, extremely lucky, cowards, or pacifists? (for some reason I'm picturing Gilderoy Lockhart as one of the Iberian magi right now)

So, we would be (probably) starting in roughly Spring of 1213, then?

Sounds good to me.

I think this would work. I'll try to come up with a companion concept or two to throw out for the troupe.

I'm also sorely tempted to run Cygna v.3 (I'd probably redo her Flaws a little bit, but keep her Virtues and Abilities the same. I'll probably keep her Susceptibility to Infernal and Diabolic Past, come up with a way to make the past fit in and just hope the Susceptibility doesn't bite her on the arse.

But yeah, I'm in.

Like Ray, I like the sound of all of the above. I was very disappointed with the previous set-up, but this sounds good.

Troupe style is one of the reasons I like Ars Magica and I really like the idea of players outlining a concept, which is then fleshed out and played by someone else. I'm more than happy to help. If you'd like some help with the covenant's grogs, vis sites (before/after you've decided on the vis types), just let me know. Same for the library, and anything else you can think of.

I'm also happy to share SG duties. I tend to be either very tangled of too linear as an SG, and if something seems overwhelming, it probably is, so your characters should RUN or make their peace with their God. Running away means you can have another go at the same bad guy, just not today. I like the idea of recurring bad guys, they can lead to long-term stories.

If you'll have me, I'm in. I'll run a variant of Berenguer, 5 years post gauntlet. I'll also give some thought to a companion type. What would other folk like to play, or think would be good for the troupe? For preference, I like some weapon and outdoor skills (Aragorn/Legolas?), but am happy to play against type.

What do people feel about Ravencroft's idea of Magus resources post gauntlet? I like it, and would be pleased to see it implemented.


Given the heavy diabolic "taint" of the Tribunal (which makes me wonder if it would even be quorate at the next Tribunal, given that most of the magi were ash), I'm thinking of a priest, imam, or rabbi as a Companion type.

And I, for one, have no problem with you coming back.

I'd have to reread them, but I really like the idea of the magi bringing stuff to the table, existing covenants actually, you know, having stuff (vis, a decent library, magic items, etc)

To be very explicit about this point, I care nothing about canon. Source material is meant to be just that, a source of ideas. If I can find the 3rd Ed sourcebook, I'll most likely cull covenant and magi concepts from it, and then fit them into my framework. I don't think anybody on the forums here is running a game in Iberia, or else I might be tempted to integrate their covenant info in, but I don't know it very well. Players would be free to assume that what they're read is accurate, but only things explicitly brought up in-game are guaranteed. Everything else is up to ST fiat.

If people didn't already have a bunch of characters made, I'd start the campaign creation with only the core rulebook, possibly Covenants, and every chapter or rule from another book has to be voted in by the troupe by a simple majority. I haven't read all the books, so it's the only sane way I can think to handle it.

Twilighted magi makes for an interesting story potential I hadn't thought of. Killed, twilighted, or revealed as an infernalist and preparing to get a Wizard's March declared on them in 1214.

Some of those last group will be following the obvious route, shoring up defenses and preparing for magical assault. Others will take a more political route. The guy with the most votes in his pocket will never get Wizard Marched.

Which side were the infernalists and demons on? The information is, shall we say, politically tainted.

Of course, we'll need to figure out how many new magi sigils show up by 1214, and who they're allied to. NPCs that aren't courted by the PCs will vote at the whim of the ST. :smiling_imp:

Not necessarily pacifists, but neutrals (Swiss). Also, the Christians won Las Navas de Tolosa, so the extremely powerful, non-infernal, combat-worthy ones are probably deeply Christian. They're also the ones tossing out charges of infernalism against pro-Islamic magi who were supposedly at the battle. Actually, that might get tricky, won't it? In order to accuse someone of casting infernal magic at the battle, you have to concede that you were there too, and just being involved in the battle is a violation of the Code.

Barring any objections, Gilderoy Lockhart has just been added to the roster. If we're going to be the sort of game that makes all kinds of literary references in our games, then the head of the order is called The Merlin, and the surviving founder of your covenant is going to be Jaime Lannister.

Could be as early as Winter, 1212. Hellfire, we could start with the Redcaps arrival in whatever covenant you're in during Autumn, 1212, so long as every player can take part in each prologue. Take as long as you want to get there, so long as THERE is where you're going.

This game lasted maybe 3 months. I'd be surprised if people didn't want to keep the concepts they're worked so hard to develop.

We'll build the covenant together. I have several specific ideas and a general shape.

Creating believable recurrence is always difficult in games. In a world free of consequence, killing your opponents is always the easiest option. My own solution is to de-emphasize combat. In my games, you'll rarely be confronted with a slavering monster bent on destruction. Rather, you'll face political pressures and intricately balanced situations with no clear black and white sides.

The basic campaign set up is a good example of this, really. Two fervent ideological groups, clashing because their goals don't intersect at all -- the Christians are worried about the souls of unbelievers going to Hell, while the pro-Moor contingent is worried about preserving culture and knowledge. Add to this the fact that they've been fighting about it for over 6 centuries, and there's a whole lot of Hatfields And McCoys going on. Magi who won't work together because of stuff their grand-parens did.

Of course I'll have you. :slight_smile: The whole game concept is a lifeboat for us to jump on while JM sinks his campaign.

IIRC, the Iron Magus stuff were a hand-waved rules set so that the players could skip the heavy time-sink of covenant generation. Interesting, but I don't know the system well enough to appreciate its mechanical complexities. You'll have to campaign for it. Tell me why you'd rather do that, and what it would replace.

An extremely excellent point, and one which could figure heavily into the plotline, if anybody chooses to explore that.

So far, we have me, Peregrine, and Radagast.

Ladies and gentlemen, I declare a coup. ~bows~

Please continue these dicussion in the Coup D'Etat thread.

The premise sounds interesting, I like the theme myself :smiley:

Companion: Sounds fine, and these are always useful.

There's Marko and his Andorra saga, but, unless you like the idea, I'd recommand against it since it is saga-specific, with the existence of a Covenant non-affiliated to any tribunal.

Yup. Luckily, we don't have much of that problem anyway.

Me too

But do you realize it? This game is about a covenant coming back to life. Just as the saga is coming back to life. Just like the topics are coming back to life after being burried in the closed sagas limbo. This is awesome!!!

I'm not sure about the 150 points, since I've forgotten what it represents (it may be much, or little, I dunno), but I like the idea, especially after being in a saga in which my character is unable to develop any of his favorite arts while his sodales can, due to lack of books in my specialties. Bad Luck :laughing:
On another side, though, as relatively young characters, I'm not sure we should bring with us a lot of books, unless there's an in-game reason for it or that's going to constitute our library. 2-3, maybe, sure, but not much.

I'd prefer 1 shield grog per magus, although this is not an important issue. The reason is that this is more standard, medievally-speaking, although, us being in iberia, a greater number can make sense. I don't recall much of Lords of Men, but there's a thread discussing that very issue: Military forces where a lot smaller than what we're accustomed to.

  1. Yes
  2. Nope, I'd prefer we follow the regular chargen rules before play, although this is not a big point of contention for me.

I thought the same thing when reading him, that's great :smiley:

Agreed. If you read the core rules, the Gift is a huge social disadvantage, being first a roleplay thing, with the -03 penalty just coming on top of that, if you're trying to mitigate its effects. Yet, I've often seen it at best reduced to that penalty, which lessens a lot of Gentle Gift's appeal.

Great! :smiley:

Social Penalty of the Gift , Rival Magic , page 07.

RoP: Magic , page 47
Unaffected by the Gift
Minor , General.

Noting on page 43 , that you must be associated with the realm of Magic to take it
and cannot be used with any other realm of power ,
except for False Powers from RoP: Infernal (pages 88 , 89).

Thanks a lot for that reminder :smiley:

My preference is for standard chargen up until play begins.

No longer care, one way or the other about extra stuff. Too hard and difficult.

I'd like to see JM's solution for the pink dot retained.

Not that I'm much into wards, but I'd like to see JM's dislike of them rescinded.

I don't recall what is solution was :frowning: Nor can I find it. What was it?

Me, I'm all of the school of:

  • Wards need to penetrate (RAW)
  • Personnal wards just give soak, like Ward against Heat and Flames does (HR). I absolutely HATE "invincibility wards".


There is no Official solution to the Pink Dot problem , afaik.

My experience with Wards , in play , is nil.
The two players i have , have not used any so far.
I'm only going by what i read on the boards.

With the whole Ring/Circle schtick ,
the making of small , mobile rings is more DnD , than Mythic , for my personal taste.
No problem if people want to use them , but prefer the traditional , not-moving a lot method.

You can use Ring/Circle on mobile objects , such as a ship at sea or a wagon , for example.

Yup, also.

I think this may be solved somewhat by saying that a ring must stay immobile relative so its support. So a flying metal ring won't do, since it doesn't have any support. I don't know if I'm clear. There could also be a minimum size (like "a ring must be big enough to enclose the magus") in order to avoid little light rings on torches. But mostly, it amounts to the players and SG saying "no".

Hrm...I like torch rings as flavor. I likewise has no experience with wards or the issues they cause. When JM agreed to my request to join, I asked him to clarify further, and the only thing I walked away from the conversation understanding was that it is something some players try to abuse.

My solution is: to request that you don't abuse it. Magic does the thing it was supposed to do, and nothing else. Making pink dots on swords do not make them magic weapons. The "penetration to soak" answer also sounds wise.