Character Creation Discussions (OOC)

Retired Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: The Heir of Laimunt Valley
502

Several quick story flaws that could work (in no particular order):

Curse of Venus / Envied Beauty

After all, dryads are closely related with nymphs. So both of those are thematically appropiate.

Faerie Heritage / Servant of the (Land)

I feel like the first of those 2 is better, but both could work too. Anyway, in both cases there is the question: Is there a more powerful faerie behind my mother pulling the strings? Or do we "upgrade" her into a high cognizant faerie?

Greater Charm

That one is funny. Maybe having The Gift as a Charm that can be stolen xD I'm already loving the idea xD

Indiscreet

Her naivety can push her into that direction too... im sure that the other magi would be very happy to discover her flaw a few seasons after meeting her xD

Supernatural Nuisance / Plagued by Supernatural Entity

Ofc related with faeries. Not much more to add here.

True Friend / Magical Animal Companion / Magical (Being) Companion

Cute, but at the end all of those are used for the same... to "find" and bond a Familiar quickly and easily :stuck_out_tongue:

Close Family Ties / Faerie Friend

Those two are also good with her background. But right now she is separated from the fae that she knows. So both of those would require an adventure before they take effect.

503

I have been pondering a pair of shield grogs to accompany Vorsutus. I have them in mind as a pair of unlikely friends who have bonded despite their differences and could have some fairly constant banter back and forth.

Benetto

V: Puissant: Legerdemain (1), Puissant: Brawl (1), Warrior (1)
F: Compulsion: Gambling (1), Lecherous (1), Raised In The Gutter (1),

A former professional criminal covenfolk retainer of Rellantali. Benetto thus is city-raised and spent time as criminal and enforcer for the clandestine activities of the Covenant, a role in which he served with Vorsutus more than once giving him a long history with the Magus.

Halfdan

V: Berserk (1), Tough (1), Warrior (1)
F: Overconfident (1), Proud (1), Wrathful (1)

A proud norse soldier who wanted to join the varangian guard in Constantinople and arrived in the city just in time for everything to fall apart. He doesn't therefore have a long history with Vorsutus instead being hired on initially to guard Thermakopolis. Yet he came to throw in his fate with the Magus over the course of the siege and sack of the city.

504

They both sound fun and interesting :slight_smile: And they smell like troublemakers too xD

505

Halfdan has 3 personality flaws, while Benetto has 2.

Grogs are limited to 1 personality flaw (see ArM5 p.37)

506

I realized when reading through the personality flaw issue I noted that I also needed to take a social status for both, so I've corrected that as well. I read up on Grogs but didn't flip through to the virtue/flaw rules ... where there are more restrictions listed? I had originally intended to give them True Friend for one another but didn't as it is a story flaw.

Benetto

V: Puissant: Brawl (1), Social Contacts: Criminals & Lawmen (1), Warrior (1)
F: Compulsion: Gambling (1), Raised in the Gutter (1), Usurer (1)

A former professional criminal covenfolk retainer of Rellantali. Benetto thus is city-raised and spent time as criminal and enforcer for the clandestine activities of the Covenant, a role in which he served with Vorsutus more than once giving him a long history with the Magus.

This version builds on the criminal concept a bit more, amplifying it a bit making it clear he hasn't left his criminal ways behind.

Halfdan

V: Venus Blessing (1), Tough (1), Wanderer (F), Warrior (1)
F: Careless: Awareness (1), Environmental Sensitivity: Extreme Heat (1), Overconfident (1)

A proud norse soldier who wanted to join the varangian guard in Constantinople and arrived in the city just in time for everything to fall apart. He doesn't therefore have a long history with Vorsutus instead being hired on initially to guard Thermakopolis. Yet he came to throw in his fate with the Magus over the course of the siege and sack of the city.

This version just is a little less focused on him being a combatant while playing up that he is the "charming but not-that-smart" one in the pair.

507

I've been mulling over rebuilding him as perhaps a Companion Tier Might 10 Jotun/Giant. Probably with an ability to assume a normal human sized form so he can blend in most of the time. But it would play up the original concept and allow for some retooling in general.

508

Alternate spread as a normal human:

V: Cautious: Single Weapon (1), Essential Virtue: Strength/Killing Blows (1), Inspirational (1), Large (1), Magic Blood: Jotun-Blood (1), Mercenary Captain (1), Puissant: Leadership (1), Puissant: Single Weapon (1), Tough (1), Unaging (1)

F: Curse of Venus (3), Essential Flaw: Quickness/Often Surprised (1), Proud (1), Uncertain Faith (1), Uncontrollable Strength (1), Wrathful (3)

509

I like more this new Benetto version :slight_smile: He can make as a great hook for new adventures since it's pretty sure that he can have access to a large amount of rumors :stuck_out_tongue:

This version just is a little less focused on him being a combatant while playing up that he is the "charming but not-that-smart" one in the pair.

Personally i don't see Venus Blessing as a "charming" tool, but more as a "seduction" tool (even if unintentional). But yeah, there is no better virtue to have a social bonus :stuck_out_tongue:

510

Magic Blood: Jotun-Blood (1)

It's that the Magical Blood virtue from RoP:Magic (pag 46)? If it's, you should choose between Animal, Human, Spirit or Thing. What's a Jotun in that context? Does the same as Magical Blood: Human?

511

Box insert on ArM5 p.37.

Actually, there would be Puissant: Charm. :innocent:

512

Actually, there would be Puissant: Charm. :innocent:

xD Sure! To me that actually would be a great "charming" virtue. Another better would be Essential Trait >> Presence (Charming) for a +3 where it applies :wink:

513

True, but Essential Traits are limited to specific kinds of characters (they require a Magic Might score).

Whereas Puissant is a general virtue, available to all characters.

514

(they require a Magic Might score).

Are you sure? I cannot find that reference :thinking:

515

Yeah, I didn't think they did either? But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

516

To clarify, i meant this Virtue:

Essential Virtue
Major or Minor, General
The character receives one generally beneficial Essential Trait at either +3 for Minor or +6 for Major, which either positively affects rolls associated with a particular Characteristic in certain situations, like Intuitive +3 or Good Aim +6, or gives the character a beneficial Personality Trait that is part of its essential nature and cannot be influenced by magic (see Essential Traits, below). You can take this Virtue more than once, so long as you choose a different Essential Trait each time.

517

RoP:M p.43, first paragraph:

Here are new and modified Supernatural Abilities, Virtues and Flaws that characters can choose from when designing magic characters or characters that are somehow associated with the realm of Magic.

Aren't "magic character or characters that are somehow associated with the realm of Magic", by definition, those with a Magic Might score?

In particular, the description of Essential Traits on p.54 mentions, in the last paragraph, that:

Characters typically develop Essential Traits upon returning from the Magic Realm, in much the same way that magi gain Twilight Scars (and Twilight Scars are basically Essential Traits for magi).

So I would be really leery of allowing a character without a Magic Might score -- even a magus -- to have an Essential Virtue or an Essential Trait. It could happen during play, if the character somehow visits the Magic Realm, but that isn't something I'd be prone to accept before play.

518

Aren't "magic character or characters that are somehow associated with the realm of Magic", by definition, those with a Magic Might score?

Uhm... yeah, but not just them. Hermetic magis are related with the Magic realm too, for example. Just as Merinitae are related both to the Magic and Faerie realms at the same time just because they have faerie related virtues/flaws/powers.

This is like saying that, since picking Faerie Blood makes your character related to the Faerie Realm, you would need a Faerie Might score to pick it. It's a weird loop if you consider virtues like Transformed (Being), where you would need to pick that virtue before you are able to pick... that very same virtue ^^!
Another example: Greater Immunity (Deprivation) (RoP:Magic pag.44) lets you being immune to deprivation LIKE magical beings. If you would need to be a magical being in first place to pick that virtue... why exists?

So, i read that part as "if a character pick a virtue related with Magic Realm (some of them aren't even related with nothing, since are General), they get related with the Magic Realm (because those are virtues related with that realm, not other one)". This is more clear when you read the next line of text:

Unless otherwise noted, all of the Supernatural Virtues and Flaws described below are always associated with the Magic realm, and cannot be used with any other realm of power

Thus, you would be unable to pick... idk, "Magical Blood: Dwarf" to enter the House of Merinita.

Short version: those virtues/flaws taints your character with the Magic Realm in one way or other, thus picking them make that same character related with the Magic Realm.

519

I would note that Essential VirtueFlaw and their associated Essential Trait is presented as a bit more stringent than just being related to magic. It represents the fact that you are so strongly associated with the realm of Magic that you share its unchanging nature. So much so that it makes it difficult for you to develop, increase or decrease Personality Traits (as stated on p.54)... much in the same way that it is hard for a magical being to increase their abilities.

It might be semantics, but to me "related" and "associated" are not exactly the same thing. In this context, it appears to me that associated is quite a bit stronger than related.

I don't understand what that affirmation is supposed to mean. Someone in House Merinita would probably have Faerie Blood, not Magical Blood.

The statement you quoted is just so that people know the virtues and flaws are always associated with the Magic realm. Unline Second Sight, for example, where you have the choice at character creation to associate with any of the realms (Faerie, Magic, Infernal or Divine).

520

I will try to follow the argument here:

You use the sentence: "Here are new and modified Supernatural Abilities, Virtues and Flaws that characters can choose from when designing magic characters or characters that are somehow associated with the realm of Magic." as an argument to link characters associated with Magic and Magic Might.

Ok, but if i work under that assumption, I find that, as i said, virtues like Focus Power, Greater Immunity (Deprivation) and others doesn't have any sense and should be deleted (i you have Magic Might already, you don't really need those after all).

Others would be unpickable, like Transformed (Being) needing Might to be able to have Might in first place.

And don't forget that the sentence tells you that all the abilities/virtues/flaws listed there (both new and changed) are for characters associated to the Magic. So, by that logic you would also need Magic Might to pick Ferocity, Magical Mount, Small Frame or Environmental Sensitivity.

Idk, i feel it weird. This way to interpret the rules make way more holes than it covers...

I would note that Essential VirtueFlaw and their associated Essential Trait is presented as a bit more stringent than just being related to magic. It represents the fact that you are so strongly associated with the realm of Magic that you share its unchanging nature. So much so that it makes it difficult for you to develop, increase or decrease Personality Traits (as stated on p.54)... much in the same way that it is hard for a magical being to increase their abilities.

You add that Essential Virtue/Flaw are somewhat more attached to the Magic Realm that others virtues.

More than Monstrous Blood? Or Magical Master? Idk Arthur... here we would just enter into a subjective discussion, and that would not bring any light.

I would also like to note that when the rules want to restrict some virtue/defect to some characters, it tells us explicitly. We have several examples at the very same RoP:Magic list:

Magical Champion
Minor, Social Status
Only characters designed using the rules for Magic Character Creation may take this Virtue.
A small group of individuals considers the character to be their particular representative, by virtue of its ma.....

Blatant Magical Air
Major, Supernatural
Only characters with a Magical Air or The Gift may take this Flaw.
The character is especially disturbing......

I know that there are a few errors into that book, but i'm sure that, if per RAW they wanted to restrict any of those virtures/flaws into having Magic Might, it would be written.

If you want to houserule it like that its ok :person_shrugging: But I will point out that ruling will arise more issues that will need further explanations for each case.

521

For what is worth:

As I read it, while Might is not required, alignment to the magic realm is. So, the character also needs at least one supernatural virtue. However, I see an Essential Trait as something more close to the magic realm than most things, so I'd indeed require either might or a major virtue.

Transformed (Being) is an exception to that because it can transform something by itself (albeit I'd say if something got to the point of being transformed it is likely to have other bounds to the magical realm).

@Vortigern, just for your information, Apprentices p.13 brings forward the Minor Flaw Slow Reflexes (-3 to initiative totals in situations warranting a quick response). It might contribute to Thorsten's concept, either the magical or the mundane one.

I like mundane Thorsten better than magic Thorsten, but I see magT's appeal. How do you see a transformation arc? Starting with munT, after a few magic interactions he gains the Transformed Human virtue and becomes magT? It might be interesting to roleplay his transformation (awakening?).