To discuss the creation of all of callen's characters (magus, companion, grogs, familiar, apprentices). This includes the concept, drafts, background, advancement, lab work, etc.
Final versions of the characters will have their own topic.
Ugh! Lost everything I typed. 
I'd been thinking a Mercurian (cult, not Virtue) Flambeau with a Focus in wind. But as I worked on it I moved more and more into Philosophiae, both for experimental philosophy as well as for ceremonial casting. So now I've moved into more of an adventuring scientist (ex Misc alchemist) very loosely based on Hypatia. The science would be a mix of Mythic Alchemy and experimental philosophy with steampunk (magic replacing steam), such as enchanting a big gear to eternally turn at a regular rate and hooking up other gears to it. I'm a little torn between Matres & Matrones (teaching women) and the The Order of the Green Cockerel (alchemists) in where to head, but I have a good idea where to head for projects around the covenant.
A question from earlier remains: Do Cautious with Artes Liberales / Philosophiae apply when casting ceremonial/ritual magic?
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I re-read the relevant sections and could see it going either way. Reading it in the most generous way possible doesn't appear to break the virtue at all, so I'd support letting it apply to rituals.
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Why not simply use Cautious Sorcerer and avoid any debate? Or did you envision a situation where Cautious AL or Philisophae would apply outside magic?
One place I'd seen was debate for AL. I've been looking to see if Cautious with Philosophiae could be useful in alchemy, but I don't think it will be.
Separately, Cautious with Ability can reduce botch dice to 0, while Cautious Sorcerer cannot. I know Mythic Stamina can do it as well, but that's not as interesting.
l don't think why it shouldn't, and l also don't see why it could be broken, so - why not.
I could go with Mythic Stamina and a Legacy centered around Hypatia, as I was already somewhat doing a legacy centered around Hypatia anyway. That would get rid of any question. I was just looking at different possibilities.
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It doesn't appear overly powerful. Seems on par with Cautious Sorcerer. I don't see a problem with it.
Is anyone familiar with Vulgar Alchemy? It should be one of the coolest Mysteries in the game, but if I recall correctly it's broken in the barely useable sense rather than in the overpowered sense. I haven't looked at it in quite a while, though. I'm asking because of the Order of the Green Cockerels.
l have one of my co-players with it and it works fine, maybe even too good.
Oh, Cautious with AL would be useful for Planetary Magic, too.
Really? I'll have to read it again. There have been so many posts on the board about how bad it is. I don't need it to be anything incredible, just something manageable.
I think people often feel it should be part of basic Magic Theory. It allows you to discover new Shape & Material bonuses through experimentation. Can provide a nice boost, but takes time. It could be even more valuable for someone with Potent Magic.
Hmmm... I've been wanting to play with Potent Magic for a while... but I wouldn't want to overlap your character if you go there (and I'm not even sure if it will fit my character concept).
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I'm not doing Potent Magic. I'm looking at investing way too much into Mythic Alchemy and Philosophiae. On the Hermetic plus side, using ceremonial methods I'll have a huge bonus to (slowly) casting spontaneous spells. Some of the stuff I'm looking at through Mythic Alchemy, that I've always wanted to do are:
canonical effects:
What Jabir Found in the Stone, and do it beyond gemstones like for wood or stones
alchemical steel
canonically suggested stuff:
clear glass
other ideas:
maybe something to change honey or similar to make really special mead
turn an object into an Object of Virtue
change vis (mostly wasteful since you can trade with the Redcaps, but could be useful in a few focused ways)
I figure I'll end up selling stuff to magi for Potent Magic, Talismans, other magic items, Spell Foci, etc. Always good to have some niche service. Meanwhile, I'll have to think about gearing - which is in my personal realm since I do a lot with robotics. Even just escapements with Rego to lift a weight being used would be cool, though those can be bypassed with eternally moving enchanted parts.
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I think it mainly depends on how easy you find it it to come up with new ideas for bonuses. It's definitely more of a stepping stone to better things, but it's not a massive time sink because you can do it while you do other things, iirc.
It makes sense as part of a set of stepping stones to more and more advanced alchemy, imo.
Really? You need to spend the season experimenting with charged items. To lock in a tiny +1 bonus to a narrow category, for instance, this will require 6 successful seasons doing that. Now, you could overlap them some, getting a few +1s at the same time. But with bigger bonuses you can overlap less and it takes longer. For a narrow +2 you're looking at 9 seasons and really only overlapping two most likely. The Order of the Green Cockerel wants you to do 7 of these...
Well you can do lesser or charged, and the overlap is not too bad if you're doing small bonuses, but rereading, that is quite a lot of work, you're right, I stand corrected. And making a lot of lesser enchanted items is not something most magi have reason to do.
What do you suggest?
I think the section was written by the same person who wrote the architecture stuff...it works and is a great concept but its incredibly crunchy, time consuming (in and out of game) and very weak sauce.
As written I think it would be fair as an integral part of Magic Theory...with a virtue enhancing its usefulness.
But by all means take it...doubtless it can be fun and rewarding...and the other Magi will love you if you can find uses for the parts of whatever pesky local critter keeps giving us trouble.
The problem is not really that I want to take it, but that it's this nasty hurdle in the middle of the Order of the Green Cockerel. And when you look at the rules for writing about the discoveries, it seems like there shouldn't be anyone ever passing that second step in the Order of the Green Cockerels because I believe you need a Magic Theory score of 13 to get to the 3rd step, and even higher if you happened to writing a tractatus before reaching that second step.
Yea that Magic Theory thing is clearly a situation where they just ignored previous rules. I would say the tractatus subject should be relevant to the discovery but not necessarily MT. An art used in the experiment, mastery for the relevant spell or Philosophiae for example.
We might also just say you can include any number in a tractatus on Magic Theory. Then you just need to write one more tractatus rather than over half a dozen.
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