Character Creation for Plot_Device (OOC)

Actually, it does. ArM5 p.42, emphasis mine:

You may raise or lower the casting level of the spell by five to raise or lower one (only) of Range, Duration, and Target by one step, as long as this does not violate any of the normal limits on formulaic magic.

However, I consider that a mastered spell cast flexibly still benefits from the mastery.

Sorry, I missed that.

OK, cool. I can work with that. Just needed to ask the question.

Well, they do specify that "the motives for the Quest are not always immediately apparent." For most of the examples, I can at least see a hint that the genius locus could have an interest int such a quest.

But you are right, this isn't so critical.

Yes, spontaneous magic is still impacted. But, between the masteries from Flawless Magic and the added flexibility of Flexible Formulaic Magic, a single formulaic spell can now replace very many of them. Most spontaneous spells will be cast in non-stressful situations. With a +1 Gold cord from a familiar, that single botch die is gone and the risk of Twilight almost completely disappears.

I'm leery because several Major Hermetic virtues were never designed to interect with each other. When you combine two (and possibly more), you can get a major increase in the power level.

At least, with Mystery Cults, you set down initiation scripts with pre-defined drawbacks. The Forest Paths in GotF seem to allow the player to pick and choose whatever virtue/flaw combination they want.

This seem more like something that should be pursued during play rather than in the narrative phase of character development. And I am starting to think that the same should also apply to Mystery Cult initiations. :frowning:

(I'm tired, and worried that it looks like I am blocking everything, which is not my intent.)

Cautious Sorcerer and Gold Cord cannot remove the last die, unlike Mastery.

That is true. It's certainly possible to get two. If they don't interact, no problem. But these interact and that was likely never considered.

No, no, talking it out is all good. We've established a lot of common understanding in many spots.

I'm fine with having it happen during play, also.

Honestly, it's not really that the two virtues interact; it's an interaction with FFM and Spell Mastery. Flawless Magic just gets more and faster mastery.

I spent some more time thinking about it. Indeed, you are correct that those two virtues don't interact that much. A magus with FFM can already master his spells, as you mention, so FM only makes this systematic.

It still represents a major increase in power for a magus to have access to both. The drawbacks (Sacrifice) should represent a clear and equivalent limit to the magus' power, which I'm not convinced Twilight Prone provides. Are you open to having it be something else?

I'm guessing your goal is to gain specific virtues, while the flaws are less critical, and the Quests essentially just window dressing. Am I correct in these assumptions?

Not really.

Yes, I'd like Wolfgang to have FFM.

Truly, I discovered the passage about the forest being integral to Bonisagus' invention of Hermetic Magic, and I thought there could and should be one or more paths about that directly.

When I started thinking about what the quests/sacrifices/rewards should be, the first quest seemed like a no-brainer, finding the Cave of Bonisagus makes a lot of sense to me. (And in its defense, most of the first quests are quite personal, the second quests do seem more related to the forest itself. The first "round" of things is more minor, also)

The sacrifices seemed like they should be things that made the magus' magic more alien. I suppose there are other ways to do that, but what I chose seemed fitting for making a magus' magic more alien. And I note that the combination of Weird Magic and Twilight Prone is quite synergistic, negatively.

For the Boons, it's about gaining a deeper insight into how Hermetic Magic works. Inventive Genius seemed to make sense for the first one, and to be honest I don't particularly want it. For the second, I suppose there are a number of possibilities, but yes, I was thinking about ways to make Wolfgang's magic more flexible, so I chose FFM, I think it fits "a deeper understanding of Hermetic Magic" as well as any other options.

As to the last quest, my original idea was "make progress toward breaking one of the Limits (a stabilized discovery) while researching within the forest". The main reason I thought that was a bad idea was that it would give Wolfgang a motive not to join the covenant (you'll recall my questions about the covenant and the forest). I liked that quest, and I'll readily admit the twilight one is not as good (though I don't think it's a complete failure thematically). I hadn't seen the passage about the genius loci gaining something from the quest, though I still say that not all the canon paths follow that, although most of them do in the second quest. But I'm very open to other ideas for the second quest, and, I suppose, the first one, though I think the first quest is good.

TL,DR: Yes, I care about the thematic appropriateness and balance of the quests and sacrifices, I just don't think there's anything wrong with them, except for the last Quest, which could be better.

I hear you and understand the goal. Deepening his understanding of Hermetic Magic absolutely makes sense as a path. Having that through FFM is also fine, now that I've had some time to think about it. And I can certainly understand the appeal of that virtue, since I took it for my magus! :slight_smile:

I found your latest post much more enlightening about what Wolfgang is searching for. We can work from that and work on detailing a nature path. And, as you mentionned, we can do this in a ways that will strengthen Wolfgang's desire to join Tugurium.

That is one of the reasons I evoked the possibility of choosing Mountain Lore instead of Forest Lore. Leaving for a covenant in the Jura mountains would fit very well. A "Path of the Cave" is much more likely to be pursued in the mountains. Wolfgang being in the Swabian Alps might also give him more affinity with the mountains than the forest.

The cave in the Southern Alps where Bonisagus formulated his initial universal magic theory (from HoH:TL p.6) could be en element of Wolfgang's path. Maybe he wants to establish his own sanctum a cave similar to that of Bonisagus and collect items that once belonged to Bonisagus there, to put himself in the proper mindset.

Nothing wrong with the Sacrifices/Quests/Rewards you proposed. We can explore alternate possibilities, if you want, to better represent the progression and ultimate goals of this path.

(BTW, I've seen nothing to suggest a path can only have 2 steps, even though all of the examples go this way. If I missed some explicit limit, let me know.)

I misunderstood the location of the cave, that's very helpful! "Mountain Lore" is a good solution to multiple problems, but especially the motive for joining.

I will have him start on the path, but not finished yet. I think I will go back to my original idea for the second quest. As for whether he found the cave, I think he will just search and roll, during the last few seasons before we start. What do you think the EF should be?

As for more than two steps, that's totally up to you, 2 seems the standard, but he could certainly discover more.

I found a diceroller before, but I can't remember where. I will look again, we'll need one eventually no matter what.

Coyote is a nice simple one: CoyoteCode Dice Roller v. 2.0

It doesn't have automated Ars Magica rolls, but it is easy to use and reference on the forum format:

Test demonstration for Plot_Device: 1D10 = [4] = 4
1D10 = [1] = 1
1D10 = [8] = 8

That's a tough one to determine. I don't think that finding the cave should be easy, or someone would have found it already (or it wouldn't be much of a Quest). It also relies on a combination of several different abilities: Order of Hermes Lore to identify potential places to investigate, Area Lore of the appropriate region, Mountain Lore to actually get there.

From what understand, Wolfgang first needs to spend some time (a season) in the mountains to gain a score in Mountain Lore through Practice (see "The First Step", GotF p.37). This probably doesn't allow him to find the cave (else that couldn't be a Quest, since he hasn't started on the path yet).

The second step would be "Walking the Path", where he needs to achieve communion with a genius locus of the mountain (Int + Mountain Lore vs an EF of 9). This again takes a season for each attempt. If he fails, he only gains Practice experience for Mountain Lore.

If he succeeds, then he can negociate with the genius locus to determine what the 1st Quest/Sacrifice/Fruit will be and he can start upon the Quest during that season. This may take more than a season (but usually no more than 2), but before that point he cannot know what knowledge will required, since he doesn't know what the Quest will be.

Actually, it's up to you also. Your magus will be the one negociating with the genius locus, so if he wants to acquire additional virtues, he can make a deal for that too.

Interesting. I didn't realize the nature of it, I thought it was discovery, not negotiation. I will definitely do that in play, then, and just have the initial communion and practice happen, while he's familiar-searching. Then he will be looking for a laboratory for the binding, and have a reason to want to be close to the alps.

Note that he shouldn't be able to actually find his future familiar during a season of Practice for Mountain Lore. But searching for one is a good reason for him to be exploring the mountains.

Well, ok, I won't argue based on season economy. But really the Lore practice is just spending a season in the aura, not like normal intensive practice, it sometimes happens by accident.

Finding and befriending a familiar is a significant activity that deserves its own season. You are focused on getting to know your significant other, so to speak, to the exclusion of pretty much anything else. You may not end up with xp on your character sheet, but that is actually what is happening. Call it the equivalent of an Area Lore, but about your familiar.

To me, that precludes getting experience in something else. It's a OOC choice, in the end. Gain the familiarity with your familiar, or gain experience on something else? Failure to do the first lets you reflect on everything else that you lived through during the season, allowing you to gain insights about something else.

Makes sense. I wasn't really arguing, I guess I didn't have a point, sorry.

No problem, I just wanted to explain my thinking. :slight_smile:

Fall 1203

I've made up my mind to leave this place. But it seems foolish to leave at the onset of winter, so I'm waiting until Spring. I decided the best way to spend my time this season was to prepare for the political tasks ahead of me. With that in mind, I volunteered to assist Phillippus with correspondence. I made no secret of the fact that it was in service of my own ambitions with regard to the Ash Gild, but he's in favor of that, so it was no problem. What I didn't go into were the differences in our feelings on the subjects that are dear to him, namely hedge wizards and rune wizards. So I spent the season writing letters for him, and also building up my own address-book.

I also tried to learn as much as I could about the Holy Vehm. I can't really deal with meeting them in person, due to my appearance and my Gift, but I was able to copy a list of names, and their positions, and I wrote to a few of them on the old man's behalf over the course of the season.

[Treating this as story xp, +5 Organization Lore: OOH, +1 Organization Lore: Holy Vehm, +2 Intrigue]

Winter 1203

My last winter in Durenmar. I told Phillippus I am leaving for good in the Spring. I don't know exactly where I'll be going, my first priority is to find a linnorm, and then I will look for a new place to settle. I also told him that I wished to understand the Holy Vehm better, and he was agreeable to me looking through his old correspondence and notes. So I spent the winter that way, poring over documents, learning all I could of what I fear may become a dangerous enemy of the Order someday.
I'm not sure what the best strategy is. Part of me wants to infiltrate and destroy them, but it's difficult and risky. It might be better to just hope for the best, keep my distance, but be prepared to deal with an army, divine protection and all. For now, I'll prepare for both.

I also spent some time chatting with Erdo. We talked about forest lore, hermetic theory, and other things. I have no qualms about being what one might call a "battle magus", but I'd like to have some sort of goal beyond getting better at killing. Bonisagus came up in our conversation, and I was surprised to learn that nobody knows where his cave is. We discussed how it could be found, and whether other features besides Forests might be able to be studied and communed with in the same way. I'm going to the mountains soon, so I will try, and see what happens.

I made a couple of requests of the redcaps, requesting a book, and asking to be informed of any permanent vacancies in covenants, preferably in the Rhine. I asked correspondence to be held for me at Aedes Mercurii.

[Practice xp, +4 Organization Lore: Holy Vehm; Purchased The Creation of All Things, by Barnabus ex Bonisagus, Creo Summa L19 Q12 (for 5 Vim, 8 Corpus, 6 Terram)]

Spring 1204

I've left Durenmar for good. I brought Dagny and Gwyneth with me, it's nice not to be traveling alone. Then we made our way south, through the forest, up into Swabia, where I was born. My hunting spell won't work on creatures of magic like linnorms, so I have to go back to the old methods my father taught me, and the signs I read about in books.

I didn't find anything, but I did spend the whole season in the mountains, keeping to the strongest auras I could find, and communing as I wandered. It was nice to just meander aimlessly, and nothing terribly eventful happened. But I think I can start to hear the thoughts of the mountains. At first I thought I was going mad, but then I remembered what I learned from Erdo. It takes a bit of concentration, and I can't hear it all the time, but the voice is there, when I listen for it correctly.

[Gain +5 xp in Mountain Lore]

Summer 1204

I saw the signs. Trees with the bark scraped off, cast-off scales, patches of vegetation blackened by venom. There was a linnorm cave nearby. I knew my ring would protect me, but to keep my companions safe I found them a remote but safe place to make a temporary home, a dozen miles from where I thought the cave was, and a couple of miles from a small village, and helped them set up a long term shelter. Then I returned, and started looking for the cave.

I found it, and within was a huge linnorm, with deep green scales, coiled around an impressive pile of coins. She also guarded a clutch of eggs, each bigger than me. She immediately attacked me, of course, but the power of my ring held her off. She kept trying for a while, but eventually accepted that she couldn't hurt me, and gave up. It may have helped that I didn't try to take her gold. I waited. The eggs were too big to move, so I had to wait for them to hatch; I camped in the lair, hunting when I needed to.

Watching, and waiting, I learned a bit about linnorms. Hunting was rare, only twice over the summer. The eggs were moist, glistening with poison that she refreshed when it dried. She was capable of speech, though not really interested in talking, and quite stupid, frankly so stupid that I didn't want to befriend her.

Over the course of the summer, the eggs slowly changed. There were four of them. At the beginning of the season, they were all white, speckled with dark green. As time passed, and she kept them bathed with poison, the green speckles grew, and grew, until the eggs were all green, with barely a trace of white. But, oddly, one was a slightly darker shade than the other three.

[Story: Gain +5 xp Parma, +3 xp Magic Lore]

Fall 1204

At the end of summer, the eggs hatched! On the day after the the equinox – I think they might have started to crack at night. I watched as they opened, and within a matter of about an hour, 3 of them had hatched, revealing baby linnorms, dark green, about 4 paces long. They seemed able to care for themselves in very short order.

The linnorm who hatched from the first egg had already left the cave when the last egg, the darker one, finally hatched. The creature inside looked different from the others, a bit thinner, and longer, and paler – where the others had scales of a verdant green hue, his were more of a lighter shade, an ashy green, like pine needles.

Much to my shock, when the female saw that he was different, she got aggressive. I don't know why, but she attacked him with poison, and lunged at him, shouting something in a very old dialect of German – disgusting thing? or abomination? I'm not schooled in ancient dialects. She missed her first strike, and I shouted at her to stop, but she paid me no heed, lunging again and this time connecting, though it was only a glancing blow, so it just left the pale hatchling wounded.

I didn't try to reason with her any more, but I stripped magic from her, almost enough to make her mundane, and shouted again for her to stop, or face death. With the pain of my spell, she listened to my shout, and halted, and when I beckoned to the wounded hatchling to come to me, he did. I warned her and the other two hatchlings that if I saw them again, they would die, and I led the pale hatchling out onto the mountainside.

I couldn't heal him, unfortunately, because my magic couldn't penetrate his protection. Like his mother and his siblings, he could speak, but he was a bit more intelligent than they – though that isn't saying much. I named him Kiefskala, and told him I would feed him. He didn't trust me immediately, but he followed me for his own safety, and then because I offered him food. The first time I caught a deer and killed it for him, letting him swallow it up, I believe it made a big impact, and he seemed a little friendlier afterward.

Over the course of the season, we wandered together. He wanted to eat much more often than his mother did, and he molted several times. By the time it started getting cold, he trusted me and I trusted him enough for me to take him back to the little shelter where Dagny and Gywneth were waiting. It was a stressful introduction, but they accepted each other after a few tense days, he understanding that they were friends, not food, and they understanding that he was a friend, not a savage beast or the spawn of Satan.

[+2 xp Magic Lore Exposure, gain animal friend]

Winter 1204

The winter was mostly uneventful. I hunted frequently, and Kiefskala gorged himself once every couple of weeks. The rest of the time, I just communed with the mountains. My new friend was growing quite rapidly, and he started to crave gold, as well as meat. I had been wondering if something like that would happen, and I had saved some vis for that very purpose. I used the spell I had learned to create gold for him, and gifted it to him. I'm not sure what I expected him to do with it, but I was quite shocked when he simply swallowed it whole. He seemed quite content after that, apparently having a sphere of gold in his crop agreed with him. He became quite affectionate after that. I had already made us a separate hut, both to give my companions some privacy, and to have enough room to keep my new friend warm inside without making the place cramped; and after I gave him gold he took to curling up around me in the night. I must confess I kept my ring on, but it was more a matter of me being worried about him accidentally crushing me, than about any fear of betrayal. Interestingly, my body warmth seemed not to be blocked by the ward, as Kiefskala found our arrangement quite cozy even though he couldn't quite touch me.

[+5 xp Mountain Lore, gain 1 warping from ongoing Ward, spent 5 pawns of Terram vis on ritual spell]

Spring 1205

Spring came, and I realized it was time to make a change. I wanted to forge a bond with my new friend; and I also was beginning to feel the effects of winter a bit, and I realized I'd need to get a longevity ritual soon. I needed a laboratory, and therefore a covenant. So we travelled to Aedes Mercurii, keeping off the roads to avoid any problems caused by my new friend, which made our journey take quite a bit longer. Still, we made it in time for the Mercuralia. I was worried about Kiefskala, and what impression he might make, but everyone was quite blase about it. Although he's gotten pretty big now, so I did need a bigger room than I would have otherwise, people just assumed he was my familiar. Maybe it's just that they all thought I was strange already, so showing up with a great winged serpent didn't really change anything.

As I had hoped, I had correspondence waiting for me – the books I had ordered, as well as a few letters, offering places in covenants.A few I turned down, because they seemed like places where I would be a token Flambeau, and the youngest resident by far – which to me spells out "we want someone to do the jobs we can't be bothered with". A couple I lingered over, invitations from those with whom I often revelled at the Mercuralia, but I decided to decline those too. I suspect such relationships work better in small doses, and anyway I still think they view me as an object, an icon for youth, and have no real interest in me as a person.

I found one letter, though, that was much more promising. Clusius, a young Jerbiton, who inherited a covenant named Tugurium, and is looking for other young magi to take up residence with him. He even offered a healthy vis stipend. And best of all, it's in the Rhine! I had considered leaving the tribunal permanently, but I didn't really want to. It's also right at the edge of the Alps, so I'll be able to continue my study of the mountains there.

I saw Mariana at the Mercuralia, though we move in different cliques during the festivities. We did chat a bit afterwards, and I was pleasantly to find that she had the same offer! I'd already made up my mind, anyway, but knowing that a friend was going with me was very nice. We traveled together to our new home.

[Story: Gain +5 xp Parma, +3 xp Order of Hermes Lore]