Character Creation for Plot_Device (OOC)

I like your grogs, they remind me of the shield maidens in Beforeigners.

It's mostly actually that I just like the idea of her having visions, without them necessarily being the trigger for stories. She does have one of those (Magical Fascination).

I may just figure out something more mundane.

Sorry for entering on this discussion at this point in time.

I wouldn't say that finding Bonisagus cave seems like a quest for any Path. For a path related to caves, it could be better to change that to "find a significantly mystical cave", and maybe that cave would be the ritual place for the 2nd Step.

Large text, possibly not really relevant

Bonisagus cave has the problem that it has mythical, magical, hermetic and historical significance, and many magi have searched for the cave since the beginning of the Order, without success. To me, that means that most of them were looking at entirely the wrong place (for example, Black Forest instead of Alps) and that the difficulty is very high. It seems weird that a relatively young magus could find it by spending some seasons in the woods.

About finding the cave itself: Ancient Magic suggests Int+Area Lore against EF 18 to find the lost city of Endor (21 if you are away from the place, searching through maps and notes).

This would make finding Bonisagus cave quite hard, but again, magi have been looking for his cave since the beginning of the Order, without success, so maybe 18 is reasonable. Also, many magi probably didn't had the correct Nature Lore (raising the EF by 3 or even 6 points by depending on a tangentialy related Lore, for example).

An EF of 18 means that a character with Int +2 and Nature Lore 4 (e.g.) would take about 2 years on average, but not likely more than 5 years. On one hand this doesn't make for great gaming experience, IMHO. On the other, I think that spending 5 years to find Bonisagus cave is a pretty good deal for any hermetic magus, so from a narrative point of view I'd say 5 years is too little.

Overall, finding Bonisagus cave is an entirely different kind of adventure, In my opinion. I don't see a problem if that is Wolfgang goal, but I wouldn't expect that to be related to a Path.


Also, I think your advancement on Mountain Lore is a bit fast. According to GotF p.37 the Source Quality for learning is the aura in which you spend most of the time. I find it hard to believe that through Spring 1204 you kept traveling mostly within an area with aura 5. Maybe settle for that season for time enough to commune, or slow down the progress of Mountain Lore?

Anyway, I like Wolfgang. Seems like a reasonable Flambeau (which is more than we can say about the other Flambeau).

No comment on the saltiness directed at the other Flambeau, I think that player has lost interest anyway.

Re the aura, I don't think it's particularly farfetched to say in the deep wilds of the alps he found an aura of 5 or greater, since he was seeking out the strongest aura he could find, because he was looking for linnorms. Also, I'm assuming he didn't spend the entire season there, but "most of his time" meaning more than half the season, but less than the whole season. (and in his subsequent season, he'd found the place already so could head back there). Nobody seemed to mind before, but I don't mind changing it if it bothers you a lot.

Re the cave, I don't have strong feelings about this, it's just "what I thought of". If someone has a better idea for the Path, it's relatively easy to say he met another magus whose life goal was to find Bonisagus' cave, and that's what made him aware of Forest Lore/Mountain Lore and communing with the genius loci; and he will end up with another quest to begin the path. That said, as a player what I want him to eventually gain from his path as the Second Fruit is Flexible Formulaic Magic; I don't have any strong ideas for the other Fruits, Sacrifices, Quests.

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I was talking about house Flambeau as a whole, not about the other Flambeau from the saga. Sorry for the confusion. A little attempt at a joke gone wrong.

Ahhhh, I get it. [All] the other Flambeau. In that case, yeah, you're right, I appreciate the thought.

I thought of something new/different for Path, posting to see what people think.

[Mountain] Path of Attunement

The magus walking this path helps the genius loci to grow stronger, and in doing so becomes more closely linked to the magic realm, gaining more precise control over their magic but also making their magic riskier.

First Quest: Develop a spell to increase the strength of an aura over a wide area, and use it to increase the strength of the genius loci's aura by one.
First Sacrifice: Weird Magic
First Fruit: Harnessed Magic
Second Quest: ??? (This is more major so probably should be determined by someone else.)
Second Sacrifice: Twilight Prone
Second Fruit: Flexible Formulaic Magic

The aura-increasing spells from RoP:M are somewhat controversial, so I'm not sure we will be using them.

I can offer some ideas for appropriate quests:

  • Cast a powerful ritual (level 50 or above) within the aura, by yourself (1st)
  • Spend a year protecting the genius loci's domain from encroachment from mundane/faerie/infernal influences (1st, maybe 2nd)
  • Convince a powerful magical creature to move permanently into the domain of the genius loci (2nd)

I like 1 and 3. I didn't know there was controversy around the aura increase spells, I thought the added risk from having to roll on that table (and the uncertainty of success) would be a good thing to make that quest less trivial. But ritual over level 50 is tough too.

Replaced Visions. Ok to post these two to the Grogs thread?

Go ahead! :smiley:

Wolfgang's Laboratory

A door is set into the cave wall. It is of heavy oak construction, but while it latches securely, the old wood has gaps at the top and bottom, where time and the damp have conspired to wear down the thick oak.

It opens with a sinister, groaning creak; an annoyance that returns within days no matter how liberally the hinges are oiled.

Beyond, the square-cut stone dressed for the door degrades into a low, rough-hewn tunnel. Anyone of normal height feels hemmed in as they walk down it, maybe risking bumping their head. The tunnel goes deep into the rock, twisting and winding around in an uneven, claustrophobic curve, meandering two dozen paces further under the mountains.

Within, a laboratory is built into a cave. From the ceiling hangs a large metal basket, filled with burning wood, which provides heat and light. A smaller tunnel at the far end of the cave goes into darkness, connecting to a linnorm's lair, even deeper under the mountain.

Trying to understand the mechanics of it:

Greater Feature Circle: +2 Aesthetics, +3 specialization
Greater Feature Monolith: +2 Aesthetics, +3 specialization
Auspicious Shape: +1 Aesthetics, +1 Vim
Spacious: +2 Safety, +1 Aesthetics
Extensive Stores: +2 Safety

Greater Focus Circle: -2 General Quality, +4 specialisation
Abyss: -2 safety, +2 Pe
Undecorated: -1 Aesthetics, -x specialisations
Missing Equipment: no vis extraction or Longevity rituals possible: -1 upkeep (that's only 1 Flaw, I believe)
Subterranean: +1 Upkeep, -1 health, -1 Aesthetics, +1 Terram

Total:
Size: +2, +4 Aesthetics, +2 Safety, +0 Warping, +0 Upkeep, -1 health, +1 Vim, +2 Pe, +1 Te, +(10-x) in unnamed specialisations (see undecorated flaw for minus x)

You were right about the missing equipment, I forgot the two I picked counted as half, so added another (Items).

Safety is actually 0 because base safety is -2; Refinement (0) minus Occupied Size (2)

You are correct that this is much more elaborate than appropriate. Remember that this is a new lab, quickly set up by Julius and the covenfolk when Wolfgang's preferences were known.

They used one of the natural caves (which were originally carved by a underground river), slapped a masonry wall across the tunnel with a door to close it off from the rest of the caves and moved some lab equipment into it.

So anything about an elaborate/deliberate shapes doesn't seem likely.

Some of the elements of the description seem salvageable:

  • The door may have aged prematurely and warped due to the Muto effect, or perhaps it was simply taken from another part of the covenant and moved here.
  • Twisting tunnel is fine.
  • Bottomless void is possible (although it must lead somewhere and my be a security risk).
  • The decrepit state of the equipment seems a bit extreme. It could be minimal or of a lesser quality than hoped for, but it is unlikely that Julius and Clusius would have moved such defective equipment into a new lab (as the only lab that previously existed at Tugurium was Leonardus').
  • The cave may be as spacious as you want.

All the advanced features (Summoning Circle, Monolith, Auspicious Shape) are just not possible. That is not to say that Wolfgang cannot work at adding those later on.

And anything that adds to Upkeep isn't possible right now because the new covenant doesn't have such resources.

See it as a work in progress! :grin:

ok. among other things I wasn't sure if anyone besides Clusius actually had Theory and therefore knew how to maintain a laboratory.

I will backtrack to just a standard lab with Subterranean. (and Size +0)

Both Julius and Adeline have a score in Magic Theory. :wink:

Just for the record, Wolfgang gave his lab a quick Perdo haircut on the first day so I'm not taking low ceiling or uneven floor. :stuck_out_tongue:

I will take Undecorated.

@Arthur What would you suggest as an alternative to Basic in my case?

Damp or Dirty come to mind.

More severe possibilities would be Abyss (and might become a Feature and Focus later on), Chaotic, Gremlins, Inhabitants (bats or slugs), or Thoroughfare. The last 3 might not have been known when the lab was set up there.

How many spontaneous castings would it take him to make the floor even or the ceiling higher? Just curious. :wink: