Character Creation for Vortigern (OOC)

I haven't gone through to check this. I caught that there was an error but wasn't confident it was the only one. The chronology is off in that it doesn't line up with exactly when our characters are coming into the game because I based it on the starting year of the saga and not the current year of the saga (my mistake) and then also timed the siege of Constantinople I thought correctly ... so shifting the years wasn't an easy fix. I think. But I could be wrong. I haven't really dug in to try and figure out how to fix that.

There is nothing that prevents the characters from showing up in Spring. Or whatever season you prefer. We could even retcon them arriving earlier. So no need to account for an extra season "waiting" somewhere before arriving.

It's not as if all magi passed their Gauntlet at exactly the end of winter. That can happen throughout the year.

I would prefer that Alba arrive at Tugurium in spring, for example :stuck_out_tongue:

PD: in which year exactly Clusius sent the letters to search magis? 1205?

He started sending out an initial wave of letters in early 1204. He may have sent a second wave at any time after that.

Your character may have been late in their awareness of them, or took some time to decide that the offer was interesting, or reacted to a later wave of letters. Or you may have exchanged several rounds of letters during those 2 years.

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We were kinda doing that whole fighting for our lives bit during early 1204, so it makes sense for them to get the later round of letters.

Belisarius is going to end up in Durenmar a touch ahead of you, but other than that, yeah, we're all good on that front.

I'm... not sure I'm following you. Isn't it just a matter of rewritting this

to this?

1202 - Year 8 Post Gauntlet
1203 - Year 9 Post Gauntlet
1204 - Year 10 Post Gauntlet
1205 - Year 11 Post Gauntlet (Partial)

But that's a minor issue. I raised it just to make sure we were all in the same page regarding the date of Vorsutus arrival at Rhine/Tugurium.


Regarding Year 11, how is Vorsutus arranging a SQ 15 for Classical Greek and another SQ 15 for Artes Liberales? Also, did he spend any vis at all to go from Harco to Durenmar by Portal (it wasn't mentioned)?


Regarding Ash gild, since you are going to stay at least one season in Durenmar, it's also an opportunity to get acquainted with Phillipus Niger. =]

I am not sure that it is as easy as that because some events in the specific years may be specifically/accurately time even though the overall sequence is off. But regardless I think the general flow of his narrative and entry is still clear.

I figure he hired instructors for them both while waiting for Belisarius to be ready to depart there. The 15 was the nominal average per season over the overall yearly rate. As for portal usage, I presume he would have ICly spent vis there, but I didn't think that was meaningful to track prior to entering play. It is really just narrative about how he arrives in the area.

That is certainly the plan. I wish Skepsi didn't need to learn to read as I'd like to have him spend some time familiarizing himself with Durenmar itself! 8P

But then, the narrative advance does need to be justified, doesn't it? Suppose Vorsutus don't want (or can't) pay for using the portals. This means either a long and dangerous journey through the Alps or a long and dangerous journey by sea. Either of them likely to deny him the study season.

15 is not quite the nominal average, we have been through this discussion already. 45xp is the total yearly allowance, but not w/o taking into account "real life" demands or razoability. For example, Durenmar holds the largest known library. In this case, would Durenmar even have an available teacher instead of simply saying "we have a book on that" (and requesting Vorsutus to contribute/pay for access)? And wouldn't hiring the teacher, if available, be in the same order of price as consulting the library (if no, why not)? For Artes Liberales yes, they might have someone to teach... but again, not necessarily available at the moment, neither necessarily at a reasonable price.

Note that I'm not trying to impose something like "you can't find a teacher in Durenmar because they have books". I'm trying to frame and contextualize the narrative justifications and implications of whatever Vorsutus does while in Durenmar.


I think a question regarding teacher SQ and availability was recently asked by... someone. But I'm failing to locate it at the moment. I'll keep looking.

Here:

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To which the asnwer I gave was...

Not that in all likelyhoods, teaching for mundane abilities (such as Artes Liberales) would likely not be 1-to-1. There are always apprentices (or even other magi) that need to be taught. If such a class is taught at all on that specific season.

And I agree that Dureenmar is not known for its many mundane teachers, nor are they original thinkers. A little something to do with a powerful aura warping the mundanes, I believe... :wink:

Hey @Vortigern I'm going to send you a few revisions to Skepsi. I'd post it myself, but I'm lazy and don't want to deal with reformatting when you've already done all the work.

Anyhow, good call on the social skills folks, he's picked up a few.

Funny how the abstracting concept has only come up to nullify potential profit and not any manner of expenditure.

I think rolling this into his reward from Cumaean Temple, the adventure immediately preceding his departure to Durenmar and then Tugurium is reasonable.

I haven't been following the other creation threads as closely as I would like. I'll use the Com 2 + Teaching 5 numbers as indicated.

We can have a detailed sheet for Skepsi creation? Its kinda hard to follow it with just the finished one.

For example, it has 10 different powers, yet if we look at the Qualities, it has 3 Lesser powers and 9 personal ones. So i should have 12 powers in total, not 10.
And personal powers cannot go above 25, yet it has some above 40. How it works? To my understanding, Improved Powers cannot be used to increase the magnitude of Lesser Powers.

About abilities (and characteristics), at this point its very hard to track which comes from being an animal, which from his default pool (he is summer right?) and which from the character development. And how he has access to Faerie Lore? Also, at least one Specialization seems weird (crows doesnt live in forests, but in plains. I'd say that the Specialization in awareness have sense for crows even if its not RAW).

Are Heroic Virtues accesible for free? Without any prerrequisite?

And, whats its Skepsi? I mean, i know that its a crow because i remember that, but its not written anywhere on the sheet ^^! It doesnt even have any basic animal qualities noted. In HoH: Mystery Cults, pg.41 you can find the list for a Crow.

And you could also add his past story, since its a companion level familiar id say that its specially important.


From what i can tell, by RAW the base Crow should be something like this (taking the characteristics of a Predatory Bird as the base, since crows are both predators and scavengers):

Size: -4

Characteristics

  • Int: 0
  • Per: +3
  • Pre: -5
  • Com: +1
  • Str: -8
  • Sta: 0
  • Dex: +1
  • Qik: +7

Virtues & Flaws
Second Sight, Visions

Natural Qualities
Accomplished Flyer, Crafty, Keen Eyesight, Mimicry, Vocal

Abilities

  • Athletics 5 (flying)
  • Awareness 4 (food)
  • Brawl 2 (dodging)
  • Language 3 (whatever)
  • Music 3 (sing?)
  • Second Sight 1 (whatever)
  • Survival 3 (plains)

Those abilities are 230 xp points in total.

I'll see what I can do for you, but it's gonna be a little bit!

Not quite.

You can do the same thing with Lesser too. That and you can use leftover levels in the same way.

Seems like you're moving forward with the assumption that magical creatures get their animal stuff for free? That's not quite correct either unfortunately. Trust me, I wish it was.

So no qualities or anything, you're starting with an entirely blank slate, just as you would with any companion.

Caught that myself, I'm in the process of updating his virtues and flaws, but he's picking up Arcane Lore, so don't worry there!

We've seen critters with Gift of Tongues before, IE Owl of Virtue, so the precedent is there? Magical things get to bend the rules a little bit, so I never questioned it. But if it's something that you feel strongly about, we can certainly have that conversation.

Also on the to do list! But again, hectic life what with the end of the school year/writing report cards/parent teacher conferences etc.

Ohh, now i see that, ty! :smiley:

Well, at least the Natural Qualities are free. The other things arent, but are mandatory ^^! First its an animal, then its magical.

:+1:

An effective level of 6 at all languages? I'd say that its convenient enough to at least think a lil about it ^^!

Maybe its something that Owls of Virtue have by default because their very own skull gives that Virtue when Enriched. But it seems more like an weird exception than a rule...

:+1:

Not at all. It's a reflex from the fact that there was no expenditure for the abstraction to nullify. Had you suggested Vorsutus was going to serve Durenmar for 1 year in exchange for a season of teaching for him and Skepsi, be sure I'd have questioned it.

RoP:M clearly states that humans with magical might may take heroic virtues. For magical animals, while there is no clear statement, they are in the "Common Virtues and Flaws" list. And there is the precedent of the Owl of Virtue, as Nithyn said.
Skepsi is being designed as a companion, so I don't think there is much trouble?

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Unfortunately I don't think so. It says that you can use the mundane critters as a guideline, but that you're creating them like anything else with might. That and if you look at any of the example animals in RoP:M, none of them have Natural Qualities.

My thoughts as well, but hey, always happy to talk about things!

These might be taken directly from the Book of Mundane Beasts appendix, or generated using the rules in the Bjornaer chapter of Houses of Hermes: Mystery Cults (pages 38-43), but note that animals created using those rules have free Qualities that are used to determine their base Characteristics and other natural features, and that these are different from the Magic Qualities described below.
All magic animals have innate equivalents of the No Hands and Mute Flaws. In addition, mundane animals usually have several minimum Ability scores and required Virtues and Flaws, and these are required for magic animal characters based on those animals as well, except that any Personality Flaws are optional — the player can take them as Personality Traits instead.

Moreover, any magical creature must have a "true form". Thats not different for animals. If you remove the magical features to Skepsi, what do you have?
Right now that familiar could be literally anything, because apart from size have 0% relation with the original animal. Not even the base characteristics. Thats not a crow, thats a buff stick :frowning:

Rereading about it in the book, that "Common Virtues and Flaws" list its for Animals of Virtue. And Animals of Virtue have their own requisites that arent acomplished here :open_mouth:

You missed the part right before this that says, " To generate a magic animal character, you can use the stats of the mundane animal as a character guide". Can, not must.

Usually, not always is the operative word there my friend! And remember that Virtues and Flaws are very different than Natural Qualities.

And again, never once in anything in RoP:M when it discusses animals, do we see them double dipping by getting Natural Qualities. It would be like a third round of bonuses (Virtues and Magical Qualities being the other two).

The character minus any Magical Qualities? Again, the better way to think of a creature of might is quite literally just a normal companion, that you then add Magical Qualities to.

And that's something that a troupe can adjudicate if they're worried. That's literally how our open creation process works, no? Proposals are made, feedback is sought, and changes are made if necessary.

Regarding Natural Qualities and Magic Animals:

I am in favor of letting Magic Animals get the Natural Qualities of their animal form, with a caveat, that already appears in RoP:M. These qualities do not change their Characteristics, or grant them free Abilities.
As for why include them if that's the case?

  1. Because then we can see what the base stats should be.
  2. Some Qualities confer no Characteristic or new Ability, but they do give you some other boost to ability checks, or some other advantage, like poison.

Let's take an eagle as an example, if we disallow natural qualities, then a Magical Eagle, will have lesser eyesight than it's mundane counterpart. The Mundane Eagle gets the Keen Sight Quality, and the Keen Sight Virtue, while the Magical Eagle will just get the Keen Sight Virtue...

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