That answers my question. Thanks.
Is it enough if I pay the BP cost for a Arcane Ability Suma, in this case Dominion Lore, once even if I would need this book 2x for making something?
I think when a mundane scribe can copy it, it shouldn't eat up time from a magus.
regarding familiars- I am used to a magical animal companion being able to become a familiar without the search- the downside being they still draw the character into stories as a story flaw...
That seems fair to me.
If you pay BP for a book, then it is yours free and clear. Most scribing is done by professional scribes who have been taught the basics of Hermetic theory.
regarding vis- how much should we have per year for a personal vis source?
And is it granted during pre-play character generation? I've been told that my Philosophic Alchemy will not grant me any bonus vis during character generation. It seems odd that one virtue would grant a benefit during character generation, but another wouldn't.
I would propose that if Personal Vis Source grants vis during character generation, that Philosophic Alchemy grant a similar amount of vis during character generation. It's less than it would generate, but for play balance purposes it seems fair to limit it to what a PVS would grant.
How are we handling labs? Do we all start out with nothing, setting up a basic lab for two seasons and work from there? Or do we want to make it more complicated?
I personal prefer if player spend the seasons for set up lab, refinement and install virtues during the past apprentice time.
Still we have to talk about the free and location based virtues like if we have a tower with a great view over the ocean for our labs, if we have the specialists for superior tools/equipment, if labs on ships have place within our aura and so on.
We also need to agree if we allow a upkeep >0. (For now I go with the missing ingredients free flaw to cover up for a +1 upkeep)
For aura I already was told that we have one of 3 during pre play time.
We have a number of issues, one of which is "I was told" is coming up a lot for things that I was under the impression we should discuss since we had agreed on a troupe style play.
The fact is we need to have vis before play if we are going to do things like make enchantments, bind familiars, or create longevity potions. We also need to discuss guidelines for how the covenant itself works. My impression is that the general description given for the covenant in the book- one with a divine aura with scattered sanctums through the city is what is meant by the urban hook in the main book, with sanctums generally being located in lacunae. If that is the case then we should have a way clear to do much more lab customization than normal. Also the sundered eagle describes the Theban tribunal as being so awash in vis that it isn't even really used for currency anymore, but our covenant currently has no vis income according to the template of our covenant selected by fiat and we are told we cannot earn it before play, which makes no sense at all.
I personally think we need to slow down on character creation and start with covenant creation...
@silveroak it was told we should buy the vis we need during char generation with the 100 BP each of us have as stocks vis (1BP = 5 Vis).
If I understand it correct we will have a 2000 BP covenant +100 BP extra per player.
I agree with silver oak on this one. Some of my character development decisions depend on the covenant. Are we a split covenant with individual homes throughout the city, in lacunae for those that want them? If so, how will we set up the individual details of those outposts? We also need to decide on things like how wealthy we are, how much vis we’ll have in play, etc.
From my standpoint I think we ought to have our individual homes made up with some common virtues and flaws and some unique to the separate locations. Of course that leads to questions about the library and meeting spaces. I also tend to think vis shouldn’t be sparse, but likewise shouldn’t be overflowing.
What do other people think about that?
I thought it was already decided that we go with a more standard covenant and complete scrap the idea in TSE given for Thessaloniki.
If I see it correct my character is actual the only one with Holy Magic and so the only one who could handle the Divine Aura the covenant in TSE have.
(I still think the price for Holy Magic is to high even if a character start with it as the -15 cripple your spell casting unless you counter it with other virtues. We don't even need to talk about someone older who lose all his spells and points spend in Magic Theory. That are just the problems when you take it as there also problems with learning new things as the regular hermetic sources only work poorly for you.)
We discussed making the covenant no longer an all Holy Magi covenant. But I don’t recall us debating many of the other details. That’s what I think we need to hammer down now. We all have a lot of ideas. But that’s all they are until we agree on them. Should we have a more conventional covenant? Should we still have a distributed covenant, albeit one made up of normal magi? As I see it, that’s all open to debate until we decide on something.
I'm taking a number of rules about character setup from a game that Trogdor and I are in, "A Dirge for the Order" They seem reasonable.
For personal vis source: you can have it during the pre-game, accumulating vis or during the game. You don't get both. It's five pawns/year of your choice. If you choose to take it pre-game, talk about what it is, and why you lost it. We can do a story about regaining it.
What would you like? If you have been upgrading your lab you will have spent seasons, you accrue Build Points that come out of your 100 build points that each player receives.
Is everyone ok with some players starting out with vastly more vis than others? With Major Philosophical Alchemy, a character gets to brew vis every season, of any form, in addition to studying or other lab work, barring experimentation. Brewing form-specific vis is tough, but the character will be able to get two pawns a season, every season, in addition to other development.
As noted, players can have up to 500 vis (from 100 build points), of any type desired. The template starts with 500 vis and an income of 50/year.
We all have our concepts figured out, if not the details. Silveroak has a vastly different idea of what the covenant looks like than I do. So let's have a discussion: What is the covenant?
Is it separate locations scattered around the city? Or is it more traditional, a compound of buildings? Either is fine.
For me, I would like to have an Aura around the covenant. Having an Aura seems to me that we are close to one another, to share the Aura, which made me think of a more traditional setup. Some thoughts include that we are on the coast, and one of our vis sources is the strange sea-foam that supposedly produced Aphrodite. I would also like the Covenant to have been around for at least a century, in that it has acquired a fair amount of resources. I believe that strong, well-resourced covenants have capable magi inhabiting them. I've also assumed that the covenant is in Summer.
Poenitens is meant to be a gamemaster character. He's quite devoted, but causes problems because of his Optimism. I haven't seen any responses to that, so I'm taking silence as assent.
I agree we should have a covenant with the labs close together maybe even in one tower to have the same Aura for all.
Unless we say that we have 2 locations 1 with divine aura and one with magic aura (same level) at no extra cost.
Let's think about dispersed covenant around town - Not all magi will reside within the Aegis, since we'll be in a city, with a Divine Aura. A covenant needs to have a treasury (of vis and silver), and a library. Perhaps we have a tower in a lacuna, and our Aegis is around that. Magi must study books there, it houses our scribes and other covenfolk. Magi laboratories are around the city.
Are we open about who we are, and just deal with the issues of the Gift? Or do we stay hidden, and have servants deal with mundane tasks? I'd think that we'd want to be less obvious - the Gift could quickly get a mob going, and that would not go well. Each person figures out what they want in terms of their own lab and building. That could work.
I don't mind this setting for my char as a divine aura is as good as a magic aura for him. but lets head over to https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/setting-development-covenant-and-characters/11600/1 with the covenant discussion
That's why I was saying I was willing to limit Philosophic Alchemy to being the same as a PVS for pre-game purposes. It would maintain some play balance.
Of course, this all leads into the question of just how common vis will be in the saga. Silveroak would like it to be very plentiful. If its plentiful enough, then that might overshadow this entire debate. WE probably ought to address that question sooner rather than later.
I'm also okay with either. In some ways I think it might be more interesting if we're spread out. You don't see many covenants like that, and this is one of the few sagas where it would fit. One possibility is that there are several sites across the city that are all connected to a single magic regio. The individual locations could be in the Dominion Aura, but the regio could have a magic Aura. Or the individual locations could be in lacunae, perhaps with slightly lower Auras than the regio has. There are many possibilities. As for the Aegis, well, it depends on how common vis is. If it's plentiful enough, we might cast the Aegis multiple times.
For my part, I'd vote for a covenant spread out across the city but linked by a regio, with the central building (library, meeting hall) for the covenant located in the regio. But I'm not married to that idea.
I agree that having an Aura around the covenant is desirable. For my part, I'd have that Aura in a regio. But having it in a lacuna would be fine too.
That works for me.
I don't have any problem with having a SG character. Does that mean that you won't have a magus to play when you're not running a story?
I thought the central conceit of the saga was that we were going to be more open about who we are. Being subtle about it seems like every other saga, not a "what if we joined them?" saga.