I'be never thought about it, but that would be logical. It would imply, though, that the Aegis, which traditionally is cast at the solstice, is cast in late autumn.
Scott
Looks good. I'd comment, though, that 27 gifted members feels quite a big tradition to me - there's currently only (roughly) 180 members of Ex Misc, and most other Houses have fewer than 100 members (House Merinita has 68).
You are correct - I had thought the number of Ex-misc was much bigger and 27 out of 180 is too large. I suppose it might come from some of the long running sagas I've been in where we went with much larger numbers ... 180 does seem a bit small for all sorts of Ex-Misc on the fringes, but it is RAW and I suppose that is the IC census number which might be undershooting.
In light of that, how about ... 11? Sound more reasonable?
That's reasonable, but still more than 5% of the house--you wouldn't in that case describe the tradition as "small", but as one of the bigger components of ex Misc. 
Scott
Already edited that descriptive bit
So here is, more or less, the background for Flavius. It includes the version of Semita tweaked as previously discussed, his char sheet at guantlet, and some spells he will invent in the years pg. It also includes the important people in his life ... some of whom conveniently have char sheets of their own for easy troupe use. The first bit about the tradition is just edited to clean up some of the worst offenses of my writing style and the point about the size of the tradition.
I am thinking there are still plenty of ways to fit in a connection between Falvius and Viola, if you still wish to Scott.
Detailed advancement pg to follow in a few days, as per the parameters discussed in previous posts and in the char. gen post.
Ex Miscellanea - The Adepts of the Azure Vault:
In ancient times the Etruscans were a rich and varied culture that was consumed by an expanding Rome. Where Etruria was a a loose collection of city states Rome was unified, and the Etruscans did see the end coming. Some, however saw it as a new opportunity and it is well known that the noble sons of powerful Etruscan families at the time became a new generation of powerful Roman senators. In a less public fashion, a number of prominent Etruscan magicians saw the coming change. These Adepts knew that there was also much to be learned from study in Rome as their magical traditions were not identical, merely related through centuries of cultural interchange. These magicians were theurgists, summoners and crafters of charms ... it is said they originally learned their craft from Lasa Vegoia, a prominent matron spirit of Etruscan (later Roman) magicians. So they crossed the Silva Ciminia, even living in those dreaded wilds for a time to observe the Romans from afar and secure a base of operations - the now lost Gorge of the Bronze Spire. In the transition to Roman rule they also found a talent for Classical Necromancy, and in fact dealing with all things incorporeal. Often, their services were sought when prominent Romans were plagued by malevolent spirits - but they concealed their cultural identity and were known simply as Adepts of the Azure Vault in reference to the color of the sky on what was then considered a perfect peaceful summer day in Rome. In ancient times this was important as they did not wish to compete with more cthonic cults like that of Pluto, and instead present themselves more as scholars and high magicians rather than priests.
Never numerous, the tradition did not fare well during the fall of the western Empire. Only three of their lineages survived: the Trajanus, Dorianus, and the ungifted Horatian. By the sixth century AD there remained only two Adepts of the Dorianus line, and a small scattered Horatian community that supported them. Enough records survived that the Trrajanus line was resurrected in the mid seventh century. Things were not much better in the early days of the Order, but on the bright side it was fairly easy for a small group to hide their limited activities from the powerful - soon to be dominant - Magi of Hermes. Again, the handful of Adepts met and realized that the time for another transition was at hand. They had the choice between fading into obscurity, being slain by the more hostile elements of the Order, or joining it as some had been doing: under the banner of Pralix. From the spirits they had heard of the great battle in the North and of Pralix victory over dark forces years before, and of her good works in the mean time. So, they approached the aged Maga and were granted membership in the Order in 861.
In 1226 they are a fairly prosperous tradition within the Ex-Misc - with 11 gifted members - and strong bonds almost like that of an extended family. This is mostly due to their participation in the schism war - as they felt compelled to take a stand against infernalists, and suffered heavy losses against the Diedne. At a minimum they meet every five years as they have done since joining the order, but spread themselves thinly and share knowledge to avoid catastrophe for their tradition. They still practice all manner of spirit magics so long as none deal with the infernal - though they would be classed as practising the Goetic Arts by a casual observer they take pains to avoid black magic (or even overly cthonic practices) just as they have done since ancient times. They are magi with classical roots, and get on well with those interested in the ancient glories and wisdom yet they also draw on the modern. Their summoning arts are taught to apprentices late in their training, and are handled carefully - often behind closed doors and inside wards to keep out the demonic. Apprentices are first taught the wonders of the Hermetic system and its concept of secular magic, which the Adepts study with zeal and acknowledge as superior in most respects to their traditional arts. There are difficulties, however, as the traditional and Hermetic systems are not perfectly compatible. The Trajanus line has adopted a syllabus that results in deficient Intellego where the Dorianus approach suffers from difficulties with Perdo, and most Adepts are still taught to honour an ancient pact with Lasa Vegoia that yields incompatibilities with Perdo Herbam and Perdo Animal - intentionally shunning magics that directly destroy nature.
The Adepts do tend to associate with mercurians, seekers, theurgists, etc. as they are naturally inclined to success in spirit magics but again do so with discretion. They also place a value on being able to aid (and offer hospitality to) each other and their sodales, which means seeking some sort of income. As a result of the social activity and their natural knack for Rego the Adepts tend to travel a great deal. Much of their income is made through small scale trade in valuables accomplished via magic and brokered through middlemen (i.e. guildsmen who make easy money for simply having the right to do business in a certain city). Alternately, some employ rego craft magic to produce fine but otherwise mundane goods and other deal in information (they are able to deal with the spirit world and thus invisibly peer into the affairs of mundanes).
Major Supernatural Virtue: Summoning
Major Hermetic Flaw: Deficient Intellego or Deficient Perdo
Minor Hermetic Virtue: Puissant Rego
Mansur ibn Fadl al-Baghdadi: born 1162 in Baghdad, and married to the Maga Amaline Trajanus in 1190, Father to Flavius Trajanus and last seen in November 1212.
Cursed in his youth, he never did manage to return to the high society of his younger days. Instead he became an integral part of Semita Errabunda, had a son, and learned that his curse would not touch the Magi of the Order ... so he found peace in his garden home. He ended up marrying a Christian woman, but their faith and the strange sometime strange ideas about religion in the Order allowed their faith to flourish with each other.
Eventually he mastered both Latin, Greek, and Castillian ... and left a sizable body of fine poetry in his study along with books on his interests in architecture and engineering. It was Mansur who did most of the planning for the villa, even going to old Rome and examining how the ancient buildings were built.
Amaline Trajanus ex Miscellanea: born 1144 in the village of Kleinfeld, northern Bavaria. Half sister to Hilda Kreiger and Prince Klauss von Lichtstein of the Green Citadel (a Sidhe Lord of the Bright Summer courts in a fae kingdom located in the Bavarian highlands), fillia Alexandros Trajanus ex Miscellanea, and Amicus to Emaraldine Trajanus ex Miscellanea.
Amaline was more or less Christian, though not big on specifics and fine points she did have Flavius properly baptized and ensured that his baptismal name is the one he will always use to identify himself (she is not particularly pious, but as a theurgist she realized the protection provided by the sacrament and reasons that this sort of protection by God is one of the reasons to be Chrisitian). She loved her son greatly, but much like her marriage to Mansur her pregnancy was ... unplanned. As a result she was always trying to find time to raise the boy, train him, and plan around him.
Amaline was always very busy with her travels and research. Though she did not neglect Flavius per-Se, she left him alone or trusted him to study on his own far too often - and then spoiled him out of guilt for not having been around enough. Overall, this tended to interfere with Flavius' studies during his apprenticeship. He has, however, picked up some of her interests: having hedge wizards as house guests and overhearing fragments of his mother's debates with countless Mercurian magi, Seekers, etc. has left him interested in the same thing - exotic and ancient magics. Though Amaline never made an significant breakthroughs she gained respect for authoring many fine volumes on the mastery of a wide range of spells - though most of the copies that belonged to the covenant were donated to various libraries across the order for favours along the way ... something for Flavius to track down. She did, however, teach Flavius many mastery methodologies that flowed from her experience with Mercurian, Flambeau, and Ex-misc. sources.
Mari Amwithig ex Merinita: Deceased in the summer of 1209 during a negotiation with powerful fae of the Dark Summer courts in the Rhineland where she kept a second laboratory. Mari secret loathed most of he house, and even attempted to slowly poison Flavius when he was five because she loathed his Sidhe heritage so. This was not uncovered until years after her death, but explains the severe fevers that left the boy very weak and even interfered with his apprenticeship to a small degree. Amaline and Emaraldine both blamed themselves for the situation, as did most magi at Semita - for Mari had the wool pulled over their eyes while working against them. Though Darius will not speak of it, it is known that the covenant could have had access to several of it's vis sources much earlier than it did except Mari had been hiding them for her own use.
Emaraldine Trajanus ex Miscellanea: An 'aunt' and instructor to Flavius, fillia Alexandros Trajanus ex Miscellanea - and Amicus to Amaline who shared the same Pater as she. Emaraldine resides at the covenant of the Silver Dove two days outside Toledo and nine days travel from Semita. She is also mother to Rodrigo the quick - trusty grog who has risen to fame as an assistant to several Redcaps and a keen observer. Emeraldine has asked Flavius to keep an eye out for her son, as she worries about him so.
Rodrigo 'the Quick': Rodrigo, a handsome Castillian fighter, is not famous per-se ... but he has become known for saving the lives of more than a few Mercere for no gain other than the honour of serving the Order. He has been a good friend to Flavius too, and through his mother is like part of the family. Though he is too old to received training in house Mercere he has been rewarded by being assigned to a prestigious new project: Nova Castra. In truth, Rodrigo is fairly quick, a bit lucky, and very likeable ... but he is still just a competent warrior. He won't be talked out of going to Nova Castra, so Flavius has little choice to check up on his 'nephew'.
Darius, filius Xerxes, follower of Flambeau: Senior Magus of Semita Errabunda, largely 'retired' from his previous life as a Hoplite after a final battle with his arch enemy the Renounced Magus Baratus. Though he triumphed over Baratus, Darius was once again drawn physically into twilight and did not weather the malestrom well this time. He is now twilight prone and lame, which has forced him to lead a quieter life at age 90 (65 years past guantlet - this is a slightly older, more grizzled version of Darius but still a fearsome individual with many years of life left in him - atlas-games.com/pdf_storage/Darius.pdf).
Moratamis ex Guernicus: The resident quasetor at Semita, and a solid ethical example for Flavius during the many seasons where he was more or less alone during his youth. The Magus Marcus the Red, a Bonisagus who lived at Semita until passing into final twilight in 1216, was her teacher for three years after she returned from her time with the fae in 1202. Moratamis arrived at Semita when Flavius was just 11 and has been a major influence on him. Together with the aristocratic taste and standards bred into him by his parents he also acquired a taste for the finer things in life from her. "Moratamis is a stern judge, but she does have a soft spot for luxurious living. She enjoys good food and good wine, and does her best to ensure that the covenant has access to such amenities" and is said to enjoy more than friendship with her true friend Countenance ex Bonisagus (atlas-games.com/pdf_storage/Moratamis.pdf) ... she of all people has noticed how Flavius was changed by loosing his mother and father.
Carolus, Furax of House Tytalus: is a newcomer to the covenant of Semita, he is friendly with Flavius in the years since Flavius has taken to wild celebrations in the house of ill repute in the city of Toldeo. Flavius, wearing a different form, sometimes 'rents' rooms in this city and holds lavish parties by convincing the moderately wealth (but not terribly powerful) to organize the events with his magic (the organizers also end up footing the bill, but they are always happy about the incredible experience had). Carolus learned of this and will make the week long journey through the mountains from Semita to Toledo to attend ... of course he might also be up to other more larcenous things in Toledo which no one knows about (atlas-games.com/pdf_storage/Carolus.pdf)
Countenance ex Bonisagus: Mater to Tillitus (atlas-games.com/pdf_storage/Tillitus.pdf) and a friend of the family who resides at the covenant of the Silver Dove outside Toledo. It is Countenance who secured Tillitus a place at Semita, though her not so young fillius has been reclusive and spends much of his time at his Mater's covenant. Given her proficiency with shapeshifting into aerial forms, her desire to escape from Tillitus, and her deep friendship (some say romance) with Moaratmis Countenance spends much of her free time at Semita. She was a trusted associate of Amaline, and both had interests in exotic and ancient magics. She spent more than a year searching for Amaline and Mansur, to no avail.
Dalan and Dara, ex Criamon: A pair of middle aged maga who are long time members of Semita. They are rather contemplative, unexceptional Hermetically but respected within their circles. Dalan is an excellent storyteller who amuses the covenfolk with his tales and Dara is passionate about gardening and agriculture ... a bit of a busybody but only when it comes to the fields, gardens, village green, flower-boxes and herb-pots around the covenant. They have twenty two children with three on the way by 1226 and have apparently adapted their longevity rituals to permit fertility. Their children are foresters, carpenters, vinters, bakers, and gardeners of great skill who work for the Magi of Semita ... the eldest are now starting families of their own at the covenant.
Semita Errabunda - in this saga: is a small covenant in a desolate region mountainous of central Iberia, nominally on the edge of Castillian territory given the recent progress of reconquista. Established in 1184 Semita would be entering its early summer in 1226 except it has suffered tremendous losses with the death of Maga Mari Amwithig ex Merinita in 1209 and the disappearance of Amaline and Mansur in 1212. Add to this and a lack of stable and uncontested vis sources, and the lack of a means for controlling the portal higher in the regionne the covenant has it challenges. It is, however a prosperous and pleasant place to live with a good aura and no lack of incredible natural and magical features in the area that keep the aura strong. Its remote location, and the lack of arable land outside the regionne has kept mundane civilization far away. The closest villages are an eight to ten hours ride by mule, and these are little more than a handful of peasant villages clinging to the slopes of the mountains where a few terraces could be built for crops. The covenant proper is still a tiny hamlet in the wide and lush valley of the regionne, where each Magus has several acres of property that radiate out from a central village green. Covenfolk farm and maintain vineyards both on the valley floor and on the shallower grades of the surrounding mountains - though the vast majority of the regionne valley is undeveloped. Hunting in the thickly forested slopes of the valley mountains is still an important source of meat and animal products (leather, fur, etc.) which makes the covenant tidy mundane sums.
The covenant is more than prosperous in terms of mundane wealth with Magi living at +2 as is the norm for established covenants of the Order - but pays only a meager vis stipend to its magi of 2 pawns per year.
The "Black" Winter 1212: Mansur ibn Fadl al-Baghdadi and Amaline ex Merinita Maga were both lost exploring via the 'wandering regio' shortly after Flavius' gauntlet (November). This is often done as winter sets in and normal travel becomes difficult, and the two (along with a handful of trusty grogs) had made this journey nine times before ... it is, in fact, one of the ways Semita kept its vis stocks up since it still only has a few local sources even now - decades after founding. Semita's long spring had blossomed into summer recently because they had developed a procedure for running these expeditions. When only one of the grogs, half dead, came back far too early claiming they had been to Persia (possibly Sercia, it was difficult to tell with all the running and fighting) and been attacked by magic-dragon-men (no one including him is sure what he meant by that, again he was in battle and isn't much of a scholar, artist, or storyteller) ... and the story rang true to an array of magics Flavius realized it meant he was alone. Rogero the grog, a loyal fellow and friend to the family honestly recounted that he suspects Mansur and Amaline could have survived but the party was scattered and Amaline was gravely injured.
Flavius was consoled in person and via correspondence by the many Merinita, Bonisagi, Mercere, and Flambeau whom Amaline counted as friends. Emaraldine, his 'aunt' even came to stay in the guest house at Semita. However, with his gauntlet behind him, and his family lost he was remarkably carefree - unusually so. He had always liked to enjoy himself, but it seems the experience of the last months fundamentally changed him ... and this is also the time his bright silver finger and toenails tarnished to black.
The Business of Sweet Cakes: Flavius makes the majority of his sizeable income (TBD) in a manner that employs his ability to travel at will with Seven Leauge Stride high in the safety of the night sky (faerie eyes) and the variant of Taste of Spices and Herbs he knows. Usually, he will provide special flour to bakers in the north where sugar is unavailable (it is known widely as a spice sometimes worth its weight in gold, but generally unavailble except in Iberia, the Levant, and some centers in the Theban tribunal). Bakers need no instruction on how to use flour, and their customers need no convincing to pay dearly for truly sweet treats. Several varieties of flour are employed, as flour from ground sweet meats (i.e. almonds, walnuts) can be used in clarified glazes or cut into cream .. where fine grain flour can be emplyed in baking sweet breads, rolls, etc. This flour is enchnted for moon duration with "Flavour of the Month", and sold directly to the baker (or guildsman like a miller, who oft must be a distributor if guild rules require it). The demand for sweetners is high in the 1200s, even in the south ... and Flavius chooses 'sweet' becuase it is a fundamentaly simple flavour to enchant (it is as simple as it gets - no finesse roll becuase of no complexity).
Given his ability to travel, the simplicity of the process, and his mastery over the spells involved Flavius can work a few days per season - hit fairs here and there - and supply a huge area. He likely doesn't supply nearly as much as he could since scarcity keeps the price high. He certainly employs various disguises and never reveals his sources, method, etc. ... Falvius is a cautious sort when it comes to this sort of thing as there is no merit in take shortcuts ... that is only giving into greed.
Mohhamad al Fhazid ... if that is truly his real name, is a scholar and once respected noble tutor now disgraced and destitue. Except that Flavius met him when searching out information on where his parents might be - specifically Fhazid was trying to sell some of his prized map collection to cover his expenses. Flavius realized the tremendous knowledge this man had and his natural abilities as a teacher and offered the poor old scholar a chance at a comfortable life. Fhazid, eager to regain a life of luxury - accepted without hesitation. Flavius has kept him on for years, and despite being a bit fond of wine he is a good man. The odd religeous views held by Fhazid that got him into trouble actually inspired Falvius.
Mansur's Garden: Flavius lives in the family house, having established a small laboratory in the newly renovated guest house just after guantleting and years later taken over the sanctum of his Mater when the Queasetorae and Darius had concluded that his mother was most likely deceased ... and in her busy life he had been her only and thus eldest apprentice. The house is actually a four sectioned walled garden built out from a medium sized villa. The villla is meticulously recreated in the ancient Roman style, with a few middle eastern touches surrounding it (namely in the lush garden surrounding the central villa with its water fountains, geometric stone pavements and the Bhagdad architectural flare of the garden walls). Surrounded by a lush perennial garden with a rich variety of fruiting, flowering, herbal and fungal species life in the villa or guest house also hints at what it might be like to live in the great cities of Mansur's youth. From the garden, the architecture of the walls plays tricks of perspective to yield the illusion of minarets, domes, and square towers ... the skyline of a great middle eastern city - as Mansur did not build the walls for defence and they have no obvious function other than providing privacy, support for the vines and creepers of the garden, and their clever trick of aesthetic.
Flavius Trajanus: born January 15, 1190 in the covenant Semita Errabunda, Iberia. Guantleted November 1212, full member of Semita Errabunda with his Sanctum being the Villa of Mansur's Garden. He was born and raised in Semita, leading a quiet and studious life punctuated by occasional short trips to exotic foreign locales - never staying long enough to learn anything about those places and always too busy with his studies to open his eyes and really see the lands around the covenant. He had a few close friends like Rodrigo, son of his 'aunt' Emaraldine - but wasn't a very social child.
Several dangerous incidents did occur in Flavius youth but he scarcely remembers anything in this regard. Though it was unknown at the time, Mari secretly loathed the boy and all like him. So she did try to poison him. Flavius became terribly ill with fevers that lasted for months ... and is still small and weak as a result. Shortly after that he was claimed as an apprentice by one Toralis ex Merinita and whisked away to a new life. This caused an uproar as Amaline was away at the time and the young Flavius was still learning his latin at the covenant - not having been formally accepted as an apprentice by his mother. In legal terms, Toralis had done nothing wrong. Amaline asked for his return, but was summarily and rudely refused. On her rapid return Amaline rallied some friends amongst the Bonisagus and made her case to them on emotional rather than legal grounds. These Bonisagii then proceeded to correspond with Toralis and point out how 'one so cruel to separate a mother and child' could not possibly benefit said child and how ... strictly in terms of exploring legal scenarios ... it could be arranged that Toralis might find himself unable to retain an apprentice for a very long time when faced with even a small number of Bonisagi who sincerely did not believe he could be trusted with children. Toralis, not wishing to loose face or anger the Bonisagii sent a quick reply. By 'chance' it turned out that 'he had overburdened himself with time sensitive research' and did not wish to 'impede the development of his apprentice'. So, he asked the Bonisagii to find a new Master for the boy as their kind had so benevolently been known to do in the past. He even offered two pawns of vis tfor 'the trouble inherent in my urgent request'. Face was saved, and Flavius had yet another new home: his old one.
In the Winter of 1212 he became a Magus of the Order and a full member of Semita. Things looked positively rosy as a small lab had been set up in the newly renovated guest house to the rear of the villa. This small but comfortable house, still in the familiar surroundings of the walled garden, would be an ideal first sanctum for the young Magus ... and a sign that he was still a part of the family despite his old home - his Mater's sanctum - being technically barred from him. He was (and is) exceptionally bright, well liked by his sodales, and spirited. Since the 'black winter' of 1212 when he lost his parents, though, he has been all too happy. Most who know him suspect that he was unable to truly grieve and ended up emotionally scarred by the loss - this new gregarious Magus was not the boy they once knew. Flavius, instead, believes that mourning, sadness, and such are a waste of precious time that might be spent living life ... and he likes to live well. In he years after his gauntlet he has taken to throwing wild parties in disguise, so one could say that those who found out might think he lives too well ... except that his home, the old villa, is kept pleasantly quiet. After receiving permission to assume control of the sanctum he changed the place very little. Somewhere inside Flavius is, at least, a bit sentimental.
His upbringing at the covenant and the loss of his family eventually spurred him to take study with a tutor on the topic of religion. In a twist of fate his tutor, an aged scholar by the name of Mohhamad al Fhazid, was a bit of a gnostic. Fhazid had offended his old patrons and was running out of money - living in the almost unbearable 'squalor' of a noble man thrust into the working class of Grenada (dread the thought!). In return for a lavish lifestyle at the villa the old man tutored Flavius is more than his academics - though Flavius' academics were a bit lacking during his apprenticeship. Flavius ended up formulating the theory that God was a sort of passive creator - only occasionally interested in the world and not even its true creator. Flavius believes that the being once known as Jehovah, Yahweh or Yaho by the Semitic peoples or Iao by the Greeks is no more that a God among many who has simply discovered the secret to a greater power that has allowed him to dominate the other pantheons and install his Angelic and Demonic hosts in the world to orchestrate a great game intended to deceive and limit man. He does no believe that God is evil, to the contrary he simply believes that God is a powerful entity that has plans for humanity ... and those plans do not fit the interests of those like Magi. He sees God as a gardener with too much to do in a garden he did not create but does wish to tend and beautify.
Flavius realizes how heretical this is, and even though he conceals his views with disguise and acts of piety (even genuine of observance of some of the more logical and straight forward tennets of the monotheistic faiths) his taste in readings attracted the interest of certain Philosophers of Rome. They recognized a kindred spirit because they themselves put on the very same act, and on looking into Flavius lineage they realized how his tradition and line would leave him predisposed to be a great Theurgist. As every Philosopher of Rome needs talented magi underneath them if they are ever to achieve apotheosis they inducted him. By 1226 Flavius has made solid contacts in their community as he travelled the great cities of the world.
Notably, Flavius has invented several useful spells. He has submitted these to the Great Library in return for copyist access to lab texts which he has studied from for years. These rego mentem spells of his show a brilliance that his Mater didn't really notice - and he has the potential to be very powerful in that technique form combination. When word of the Nova Castra initiative reached him, Flavius once again thought about how there had been several dead-end middle eastern and Mediterranean trails in the case of his deceased parents. Dismissing such thoughts, he then heard how his 'nephew' Rodrigo has volunteered for this dangerous duty. "Well, he thought, off to Nova Castra for me".
Flavius Trajanus ex Miscellanea:
Age: 23, Winter 1212 - Fresh out of Guantlet
Wizard Sigil: TBD
Voting Sigil: TBD
INT +3
PRE +3
STR -3
STA +1
PER +1
DEX +1
COM +1
Ex-Misc:
Summoning
Deficient Technique: Intellego
Puissant Rego
Virtues:
Book Learner
Apt Student
Affinity Rego
Affinity Mentem
Puissant Mentem
Strong Fae Blood Sidhe
Flaws:
Incompatible Arts (PeHe, PeAn)
Carefree
Covenant Upbringing
Small Frame
Weak Parens (due to inattention and absence of his preoccupied Mater)
Dependent (his 'nephew', Rodrigo the Quick)
Childhood:
Native Language Arabic 5 (Poetry) - 0xp
Charm 1 (Merchants) - 5xp
Living Language Greek 3 (Conversation) - 30xp
Awareness 1 (Searching) - 5xp
Stealth 1 (Silence) - 5xp
Youth: 3 years, 45xp
Concentration 1 (Spells) - 5xp
Bargain 1 (Spritis) - 5xp
Latin 3 (Studying from Books) - 30xp
O.O.H. Lore 1 (Politics) - 5xp
Second Sight 1 (Regionnes) - 0xp
Apprenticeship: 15 years, 180xp, 90 levels of spells
Parma Magica 1 (Mentem) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Seven League Stride 1 (Stalwart Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Flavour of the Month 1 (Precise Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Curse of Morpheus 1 (Obfuscated Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Inside Earshot 1 (Disguised Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Prying Eyes of the Vigilant (Learn from Mistakes) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Magus as Smoke Rising 1 (Lab Mastery) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Mutable Shape of the Magus (Quick Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Mine Own Aura Empowered (Ceremonial Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Sense the Nature of Vis (Imperturbable Casting) - 5xp
Atres Liberale 1 (Astrology) - 5xp
Magic Theory 3 (Rego) - 30xp
Arts: 180 - 85 Abilities = 95 Arts
Summoning 1 - 1xp
Rego 18 - 80xp before affinity, includes puissant
Corpus 2 - 3xp
Mentem 5 - 2xp before affinity, includes puissant
Imagonem 1 - 1xp
Vim 1 - 1xp
Herbam 2 - 3xp
Terram 2 - 3xp
Intellego 1 - 1xp
Spells from Apprenticeship:
- Seven League Stride - ReCo 30
- Magus as Smoke Rising - ReCo 10 (Rise of the Feather Body Variant - R: Per, D: Sun, T: Ind)
- Curse of Morpheus - ReMe 15 (Call to Slumber Variant - R: Voice, D: Dia, T: Ind)
- Mine Own Aura Empowered - MuIm 5 (Aura of Enobled Presence Variant, suitable for Bargaining - R: Per, D: Sun, T: Ind)
- Flavour of the Month - MuIm 10 (Taste of Spices and Herbs Variant - R: Touch, D: Moon, T: Ind)
- Mutable Shape of the Magus - MuCo 5 (Disguise of the Transformed Visage Variant - R: Per, D: Sun, T: Ind)
- Prying Eyes of the Vigilant - InIm 5 (Prying Eyes Variant - R: Touch, D: Dia, T: Ind)
- Inside Earshot - InIm 5 (Prying Eyes Variant - Sound - R: Touch, D: Dia, T: Ind)
- Sense the Nature of Vis - InVi 5
Image Cast Behind Closed Doors (ReIm 25 - Base 15 - R: Per, D: Sun +2, T: Ind) Though this spell does not require it, Flavius often takes splinters of wood from the inside surface of doors to closets and small rooms. Provided the space inside is big enough to accommodate his image when this spell is cast, it will move to the closest available space to the area of arcane connection: inside the closet or small room. Effectively, this is invisibility for Flavius at his end (his image apparently vanishes) but has also served as a means of communication between Flavius and those who know to look in a certain place at a certain time since pantomime and carried items like chalk and slates also have their images shifted. It is important to note that because the door is not an arcane connection to the splinter anyone wishing to contact Flavius needs to have prearranged some way - an arcane connection is one way in and of itself and they will need one to Flavius to send him reply. Also, this spell is not scrying in any way so neither can Flavius sense anything by its use, nor is it a violation against scrying with magic when used in communication. Two individuals using this spell could, at predetermined times, both communicate without the use of intellego magics by reciprocal casting. Cosmetically, the image does appear slightly less bright or in shadow when cast forth relative to how it appeared with the illumination on sight. Images cast forth in darkness thus tend to be barely perceptible silhouettes of blackest black set against the illumination of the target site.
Touch of Lunar Serenity (ReMe 25, Trust Me Variant (HoH:TL page 73), also tends to make the casters eyes seem to pick up the light in a room to seem clear and colourful - a purely cosmetic effect - R: Touch, D: Moon, T: Ind) Flavius uses this spell to great effect, as it allows him to socialize with and effectively employ mundanes.
Right of Lunar Authority (ReMe 25, Base 5, R: Touch +1, D: Moon +3, T: Ind) an extreme variant of Aura of Rightful authority that relies on touch - usually delivered while invisible or while a target is unconscious, drunken, etc. and lasts for a lunar cycle. Cosmetically, this spell seems to suffuse the caster with a barely noticeable aura if standing in strong moonlight.
A Brief Spell of Three True Blessings (ReMe 25, Base 10, R: Touch +1, D: Sun +2) a spell that makes a target love others in every way. Note that this spell is designed and operate under the classical premise of the three types of love: Eros, Philia, and Agape. If said others are sexually compatible (or at least appears receptive) eros will be strongly on the targets mind, but ever-present are philia and agape so this person will be respectful of the wishes of others. In many ways, due to the feelings of philia and agape this will make the target into a good person - unless they are some sort of deeply disturbed person who mistreats others who are considered friends (a distorted view of how one should react to philia) and has a misunderstanding of how others might benefit from actions toward them (a distorted view of agape). So, unless cast on targets who are deeply disturbed social misfits of the highest calibre this spell beings the emotion of love into their every thought and reaction for Sun duration. Of course an unscrupulous caster can make great use of the targets new-found love, and in any event this spell may truly change the lives of some it is cast on - especially if they have rarely felt such emotion (note the power of the effect in a spell of the same guideline: "Visions of the Infernal Terrors ReMe 30").
Detailed advancement, a charachter sheet circa Winter 1225 ... and even some rough designs for labs and his family house. There are still a few minor details to be sorted out, and likely errors - but its in pretty good form. Flavius is almost ready I'd say.
Detailed advancement is long, but quite fun. Its interesting to imagine a character in depth - from what I've seen we all enjoy the process 
Appologies for using a link - but the visuals give a great idea of the property at Semita, and note that some of the formatting is irregular ... making the advancement section attractive just isn't so high on the list. On a mechanics note, I've made sure my lab totals are high enough that any result except a botch will accomplish the seasonal objective. Since we don't seem to be rolling, which would be arduous anyway, I figure this is reasonable.
Source Qualities:
PT - Professional Teacher in garden house lab: PT +21xp
Apt Student 5 + Teaching 5 + Com 2 + Single Student 6 + Lab Speciality 3 = 21
AT - Amateur Teacher in garden house lab: AT +18xp
Apt Student 5 + Teaching 3 + Com 1 + Single Student 6 + Lab Speciality 3 = 18
SU - Summa Q10 + Book Learner 3 = 13
TR - Tracatus Q10 + Book Learner 3 = 13
Advancement: 13 years post gauntlet (Age 36 = 5+3+15+13)
1213 Spring - 1 season spent assuming control of the lab in the garden house, minor adventure spent seeking out divination specialists and receiving disappointing news, travelling alot, and realizing how shoddy his Latin is when talking with other Magi.
5xp in Spell Mastery: Seven League Stride - from 5xp to 10xp
1213 Summer - Parma Magica 2 (Mentem) from 5xp to 18xp SU
1213 Fall - Parma Magic 3 (Mentem) from 18xp to 31xp SU
1213 Winter - Dead Language: Latin 4 (Writing) - from 30xp to 51xp PT
1214 Spring - Artes Liberale 2 (Ceremonial Casting) - from 5xp to 26xp PT
1214 Summer - Artes Liberale 3 (Ceremonial Casting) - from 26xp to 47xp PT
1214 Fall - Mentem 9 - from 2xp to 15xp (22.5, Me 6) SU
1214 Winter - Living Language: Greek 4 (Writing) - from 30xp to 51xp PT
1215 Spring - Philosophae 2 (Ceremonial Casting) - from 0xp to 21xp PT
1215 Summer - Philosophae 3 (Ceremonial Casting) - from 21xp to 42xp PT
1215 Fall - Mentem 11 - from 15xp to 28xp (42, Me 8 ) SU
1215 Winter - Imagonem 5 - 1xp to 15xp (Low Level SU Quality 12)
1216 Spring - Profession: Scribe 2 (Copying) - from 0xp to 21xp PT
1216 Summer - Assume control of Mater's sanctum and lab - small adventure, the conclusion of efforts in following dead end leads in the middle east ...
Spell Mastery: Seven Leauge Stride 1 (Stalwart) from 10xp to 12xp
Artes Liberale 4 (Ceremonial Casting) - from 47xp to 50xp PT
1216 Fall - Mentem 13 - from 28xp to 41xp (61.5, Me 10) TR (edit: period 1 mentem TR 1)
1216 Winter - Law: Islamic 2 (Magic) - from 0xp to 21xp PT
1217 Spring - Mentem 15 - from 41xp to 54xp (81, Me 12) TR (edit: period 1 mentem TR 2)
1217 Summer - Rego 19 - from 80xp to 93xp (139.5, Re 16) TR (edit: period 1 rego TR 1)
1217 Fall - Rego 20 - from 93xp to 106xp (159, Re 17) TR (edit: period 1 rego TR 2)
1217 Winter - Bargain 2 (Spirits) - from 5xp to 26xp PT (edit: 1st period of 5 years ends)
1218 Spring - Mentem 16 - from 54xp to 67xp (100.5, Me 13) TR (edit: second period of 5 years begins, period 2 mentem TR 1)
1218 Summer - Rego 20 + Mentem 16 + Aura 5 + INT 3 + MT 4 + Early Riser 1 + Lab
49 + Lab + d: Invent Touch of Lunar Serenity ReMe 25
- small adventure with the sweet cake business 5xp
Bargain 2 (Spirits) from 26xp to 29xp
Spell Mastery: Seven Leauge Stride 1 (Stalwart) from 12xp to 14xp
1218 Fall - Bargain 4 (Spirits) - from 29xp to 50xp PT
1218 Winter - Dominion Lore 2 (Divine Creatures) - from 0xp to 21 xp PT
1219 Spring - Concentration 2 (Spells) - from 5xp to 26xp PT
1219 Summer - make notes readable for Durenmar trip and other sets for me
Write 5 x 20 = 100 levels ... 4 x Touch of Lunar Serenity ReMe 25
1219 Fall - Corpus 5 - from 3xp to 16xp SU
1219 Winter - Corpus 7 - from 16xp to 29xp SU
1220 Spring - Corpus 8 - from 29xp to 42xp SU
1220 Summer - Journey to Durenmar to Scribe 1st set of Lab Notes
- small adventure in the black forest 5xp
1220 Fall - Rego 20 + Corpus 10 + Aura 5 + INT 3 + MT 4 + Early Riser 1 + Lab
Leap of Homecoming ReCo 35,
Learn from Lab Texts w 43 + Lab + d
MT exposure to 32xp
1220 Winter - Rego 20 + Mentem 16 + Aura 5 + INT 3 + MT 4 + Early Riser 1 + Lab
49 + Lab + d: Invent Right of Lunar Authority ReMe 25
- small adventure in the Mountains of Morea 5xp
Spell Mastery: Seven Leauge Stride 2 (Stalwart, Precise) from 14xp to 15xp
Spell Mastery: Touch of Lunar Serenity 0xp to 4xp
1221 Spring - make notes ready for second trip to Durenmar, and sets for self too
Write 5 x 20 = 100 levels ... 4 x Right of Lunar Authority ReMe 25
1221 Summer - Imagonem 7 - 15xp to 28xp SU
1221 Fall - Imagonem 8 - 28xp to 41xp TR (edit: period 2 imagonem TR 1)
1221 Winter - Imagonem 9 - 41xp to 54xp TR (edit: period 2 imagonem TR 2)
1222 Spring - Rego 20 + Mentem 16 + Aura 5 + INT 3 + MT 4 + Early Riser 1 + Lab
49 + Lab + d: Invent A Brief Spell of Three True Blessings ReMe 25
MT exposure to 34xp
1222 Summer - Journey to Durenmar to scribe second set of Lab Notes
- small adventure in the black forest 5xp
Spell Mastery: Leap of Homecoming 1 (Quick Casting) - 0xp to 5xp
1222 Fall - Lab work ... MT exposure to 36xp
Learn from Lab Texts:
- Gather the Essence of the Beast ReVi 15
- Circular Ward Against Demons ReVi 20
1222 Winter - Lab work ... MT exposure to 38xp (edit: second period of 5 years ends)
Learn from Lab Texts:
- Twist the Living Tree ReHe 25
- Ward against Faeries of the Wood ReHe 10
1223 Spring - Sent a mysterious book on Gnositicism and letter with a cipher and contact info
Lore: Philosophers of Rome 1 (self initiation) 0xp to 13xp
1223 Summer - Initiation into the Philosophers of Rome
Hermetic Theurgy
Small adventure - 5xp
1223 Fall - Lore: Philosophers of Rome 3 (self initiation) 13xp to 31xp AT
His new friends come over to party for a while and one of them stays on to teach him
1223 Winter - Lab work ... MT exposure to 40xp
Learn from Lab Texts:
Enslave the Mortal Mind ReMe 40
Snap of Awakening ReMe 10
1224 Spring - Lab work ... MT exposure to 42xp
Learn from Lab Texts:
- Crest of the Earth Wave ReTe 20
- Wielding the Invisible Sling ReTe 10
1224 Summer - Journey to Durenmar to scribe third set of Lab Notes
- small adventure in the black forest 5xp
Spell Mastery: Touch of Lunar Serenity 1 (Quick Casting) 4xp to 5xp - Concentration 3 (Spells) - from 26xp to 30xp PT
1224 Fall - Imagonem 11 - 54xp to 67xp TR (edit: period 3 imagonem TR 1)
1224 Winter - Imagonem 12 - 67xp to 80xp TR (edit: period 3 imagonem TR 2)
1225 Spring - Rego 20 + Imagonem 12 + Aura 5 + INT 3 + MT 4 + Early Riser 1 + Lab
45 + Lab + d: Image Cast Behind Closed Doors ReIm 25
Lab is Rego +3, which bring the total to 48 + d which is OK to invent in one season.
MT exposure to 44xp
1225 Summer - Lab work ... MT exposure to 46xp
Learn from Lab Texts: Freeing the Striding Tree ReHe 30
1225 Fall - Lab work ... small adventure
Learn from Lab Texts: The Earth Split Asunder ReTe 30
- small adventure, 5xp
Spell Mastery: Circular Ward Against Demons 1 (Ceremonial Casting)
1225 Winter - Finesse 1 (Precision) - 0xp to 13xp SU
Spring 1226 is the start date!!!!
New Spell: Image Cast Behind Closed Doors (ReIm 25 - Base 15 - R: Per, D: Sun +2, T: Ind) Though this spell does not require it, Flavius often takes splinters of wood from the inside surface of doors to closets and small rooms. Provided the space inside is big enough to accommodate his image when this spell is cast, it will move to the closest available space to the area of arcane connection: inside the closet or small room. Effectively, this is invisibility for Flavius at his end (his image apparently vanishes) but has also served as a means of communication between Flavius and those who know to look in a certain place at a certain time since pantomime and carried items like chalk and slates also have their images shifted. It is important to note that because the door is not an arcane connection to the splinter anyone wishing to contact Flavius needs to have prearranged some way - an arcane connection is one way in and of itself and they will need one to Flavius to send him reply. Also, this spell is not scrying in any way so neither can Flavius sense anything by its use, nor is it a violation against scrying with magic when used in communication. Two individuals using this spell could, at predetermined times, both communicate without the use of intellego magics by reciprocal casting. Cosmetically, the image does appear slightly less bright or in shadow when cast forth relative to how it appeared with the illumination on sight. Images cast forth in darkness thus tend to be barely perceptible silhouettes of blackest black set against the illumination of the target site.
New Spell: Touch of Lunar Serenity (ReMe 25, Trust Me Variant (HoH:TL page 73), also tends to make the casters eyes seem to pick up the light in a room to seem clear and colourful - a purely cosmetic effect - R: Touch, D: Moon, T: Ind) Flavius uses this spell to great effect, as it allows him to socialize with and effectively employ mundanes.
New Spell: Right of Lunar Authority (ReMe 25, Base 5, R: Touch +1, D: Moon +3, T: Ind) an extreme variant of Aura of Rightful authority that relies on touch - usually delivered while invisible or while a target is unconscious, drunken, etc. and lasts for a lunar cycle. Cosmetically, this spell seems to suffuse the caster with a barely noticeable aura if standing in strong moonlight.
New Spell: A Brief Spell of Three True Blessings (ReMe 25, Base 10, R: Touch +1, D: Sun +2) a spell that makes a target love others in every way. Note that this spell is designed and operate under the classical premise of the three types of love: Eros, Philia, and Agape. If said others are sexually compatible (or at least appears receptive) eros will be strongly on the targets mind, but ever-present are philia and agape so this person will be respectful of the wishes of others. In many ways, due to the feelings of philia and agape this will make the target into a good person - unless they are some sort of deeply disturbed person who mistreats others who are considered friends (a distorted view of how one should react to philia) and has a misunderstanding of how others might benefit from actions toward them (a distorted view of agape). So, unless cast on targets who are deeply disturbed social misfits of the highest calibre this spell beings the emotion of love into their every thought and reaction for Sun duration. Of course an unscrupulous caster can make great use of the targets new-found love, and in any event this spell may truly change the lives of some it is cast on - especially if they have rarely felt such emotion (note the power of the effect in a spell of the same guideline: "Visions of the Infernal Terrors ReMe 30").
Flavius Trajanus ex Miscellanea:
Concept: A gregarious magus interested in travel, exploration, and exotic magics with aspirations to apotheosis and a love for Imperial wonders.
Age: 36 (late 20s, strong fae blood) as of spring 1226
Born: January 15th, 1190
Wizard Sigil: The scent of clean, running fresh water
Voting Sigil: A bronze rook in the form of Trajan's column
Decrepitude: 0
Warping: 1 (13 - Given his mastered spells and lack of longevity potion ...)
Confidence: 1 (3)
Description: Flavius is of average height but slender build, with fair skin, hair the colour of spun gold, and eyes of stunning emerald green. His angular features and long limbs lend him a regal manner, which he dresses to suit. He often wears a layered robe of earthy browns and rich forest greens fastened and adorned with intricate black braiding. The long golden hair that is his namesake is held back with the same black cord, and it often flows down his back over the robe cowl. At other times he reverses his robes, which have a homespun lining that gives the appearance of a poor scholar or austere holy man provided he wears his hood up.
Equipment Carried: Layered reversible robes, small arm-tied coin purse, steel dagger, wine skin, double soled high boots, packets of sweet meats, dates, dried figs, etc. packed in waxed leather, small book of poetry ... Flavius tends to travel light, leaving the bulk of his possessions at home. In cold weather he will wear more layers, gloves, extra socks, etc. Most valuables are likely kept hidden at home or in the secure covenant stores at Semita.
Personality Traits: Brave +2, Cheerful +3, Tidy +3
INT +3
PER +1
STR -3
STA +1
PRE +3
COM +1
DEX +1
QIK +0
Ex-Misc:
Summoning
Deficient Technique: Intellego
Puissant Rego
Virtues:
Book Learner
Apt Student
Affinity Rego
Affinity Mentem
Puissant Mentem
Strong Fae Blood Sidhe
Hermetic Theurgy (gained through initiation into the Philosophers of Rome)
Social Contacts: Merchants (gained through years of wheeling, dealing, eavesdropping and travel)
Flaws:
Incompatible Arts ... (PeHe, PeAn, an ancient spirit pact honoured)
Carefree ... (Minor, a refusal to grieve or mourn ... for anything)
Covenant Upbringing ... (Semita Errabunda)
Small Frame ... (Poisoned while a boy, left small and weak of limb)
Weak Parens ... (Due to inattention and absence of his preoccupied Mater)
Dependent ... (His 'nephew', Rodrigo the Quick)
Abilities:
Artes Liberale 4 (Ceremonial Casting) - 50xp
Awareness 1 (Searching) - 5xp
Bargain 4 (Spirits) - 50xp
Charm 1 (Merchants) - 5xp
Concentration 3 (Spells) - 30xp
Dead Language: Latin 4 (Writing) - 51xp
Dominion Lore 2 (Divine Creatures) - 21xp
Finesse 1 (Precision) - 13xp
Law: Islamic 2 (Magic) - 21xp
Living Language: Greek 4 (Writing) - 51xp
Lore: Philosophers of Rome 3 (Self Initiation) - 31xp
Magic Theory 3 (Rego) - 46xp
Native Language: Arabic 5 (Poetry) - 0xp
O.O.H. Lore 1 (Politics) - 5xp
Parma Magic 3 (Mentem) - 31xp
Philosophae 3 (Ceremonial Casting) - 42xp
Profession: Scribe 2 (Copying) - 21xp
Second Sight 1 (Regionnes) - 0xp
Spell Mastery: Flavour of the Month 1 (Precise Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Curse of Morpheus 1 (Obfuscated Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Inside Earshot 1 (Disguised Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Prying Eyes of the Vigilant (Learn from Mistakes) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Magus as Smoke Rising 1 (Lab Mastery) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Mutable Shape of the Magus (Quick Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Mine Own Aura Empowered (Ceremonial Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Sense the Nature of Vis (Imperturbable Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Leap of Homecoming 1 (Quick Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Seven League Stride 2 (Stalwart Casting, Precise Casting) - 15xp
Spell Mastery: Circular Ward Against Demons 1 (Ceremonial Casting) - 5xp
Spell Mastery: Touch of Lunar Serenity 1 (Quick Casting) - 5xp
Stealth 1 (Silence) - 5xp
Arts:
Summoning 1 - 1xp
Intellego 1 - 1xp
Rego 20 - 106xp - Before affinity, score includes puissant
Corpus 8 - 42xp
Herbam 2 - 3xp
Imagonem 12 - 80xp
Mentem 16 - 67xp - Before affinity, score includes puissant
Terram 2 - 3xp
Vim 1 - 1xp
Spells Known:
- Seven League Stride - ReCo 30 - (Stalwart, Precise)
- Magus as Smoke Rising - ReCo 10 - (Lab Mastery)
- Curse of Morpheus - ReMe 15 - (Obfuscated)
- Mine Own Aura Empowered - MuIm 5 - (Ceremonial)
- Flavour of the Month - MuIm 10 - (Precise)
- Mutable Shape of the Magus - MuCo 5 - (Quick)
- Prying Eyes of the Vigilant - InIm 5 - (Learn from Mistakes)
- Inside Earshot - InIm 5 - (Disguised)
- Sense the Nature of Vis - InVi 5 - (Imperturbable)
- The Earth Split Asunder ReTe 30
- Freeing the Striding Tree ReHe 30
- Image Cast Behind Closed Doors ReIm 25
- Crest of the Earth Wave ReTe 20
- Wielding the Invisible Sling ReTe 10
- Enslave the Mortal Mind ReMe 40
- Twist the Living Tree ReHe 25
- Gather the Essence of the Beast ReVi 15
- Circular Ward Against Demons ReVi 20 - (Ceremonial)
- A Brief Spell of Three True Blessings ReMe 25
- Right of Lunar Authority ReMe 25
- Leap of Homecoming ReCo 35 - (Ouick)
- Touch of Lunar Serenity ReMe 25 - (Quick)
- Ward against Faeries of the Wood ReHe 10
- Snap of Awakening ReMe 10
Guest House Laboratory:
|This is the small two story guest house situated in the north garden (back of the house). It was freshly renovated as a sanctum for Flavius to start out in - and to enhance the illusion of being in an Islamic city when sitting in gazebo (qushaybah) of the north garden. The second floor is a very comfortable apartment. Nestled against the back wall of the garden the structure is a bit long and narrow to be an ideal lab, and is purposely missing some equipment as Mansur did not wish to coddle his son.
Aura +5
Minor Structure Virtues:
- Gallery +1 Safety, +1 As, +1 Teaching
- Lesser Feature: Throne +1 Teaching
- Lesser Feature: Chalkboards +1 Teaching
Free Structure Virtues:
- Defenses: Portcullis +1 As
- Superior Construction: +1 As, +1 Safety
- Idyllic Surroundings: +1 As, +2 Health, +1 Creo
- Grand Entrance: +2 As
Free Structure Flaws:
- Dedicated Building: +1 Upkeep, +1 Rego, +1 As
Minor Structure Flaws:
- Awkward Shape -2 safety, -1 As
Free Outfittings Virtues:
- Superior Equipment: +1 GQ, +1 Safety, +1 Vis Extraction, +1 Upkeep
Minor Outfitting Flaw:
- Missing Equipment: Texts - 1 Upkeep
- Missing Equipment: Experimentation, Familiar -1 Upkeep
+1 GQ
+3 Teaching, +1 Creo, +1 Rego +1 Vis Extraction
+6 As
Size 0
Upkeep 0
Safety +1
Villa (Sanctum) Laboratory:
A moderately sized single story villa rustica with the laboratory entrance from the peristylium and a large 'master' cubiculum (bedroom) adjoining the laboratory stores on the atrium side of the house. The addition of the laboratory and its store room on the atrium side alters the floor plan from the ancient, but the large single room is a good workspace. Fortunately the peristyllium and an grated window in the upper ala lets plenty of natural light into the lab. The architecture is well suited to Semita, with a climate that mirrors that of the southern stretches of the empire that designed this style of house.
Hypocausts are built in, but rarely used as Flavius has no full time servants to stock the large amount of wood required for regular use - he doesn't want to overburden the duties of the covenfolk and it doesn't get cold enough anyway. There are three conventional fireplaces in the laboratory, with easy access to the large store room - he usually uses this for heat as it's easier and he like to see the wood fires. The well warmed lab on its own is enough to heat the master cubiculum for its intended use as a bedchamber. Flavius is oblivious to many of the features of the recreated roman house, and uses it a fashion that is tidy but would likely shock the ancients (he's never hosted a dinner there), and just keeps the whole structure as his sanctum. Even old Fhazid lives out in upper story of the Almoad-esqu garden house - though he is welcome in the villa and relaxes in it's spacious elegance.
The floorplan is a modified form of this house: roman-empire.net/society/soc-house.html
Aura +5
Laboratory Plan - Aside from refinement, a familiar, and participation of servants in the lab this is the general plan in 1226. The spotless virtue and well organized virtue will hopefully be acquired. Flavius assume the lab in a season of reorganization, and has yet to modify or refine it. His Mater had a much more refined setup, but it is a good working space for the young Magus. The attached house usually has someone in it, be it a cleaner, a guest, or old Fhazid and this makes it less than an 'independent structure'.
Occupied Size: +5
Refinement: 0
Base Safety: -5 (-5 virtues)
Safety: +2 (-5 +7)
Minor Structure Virtues:
- Extensive Stores: +2 Safety (virtue 1)
- Spacious: +1 As, +2 Safety (virtue 2)
- Lesser Feature: Summoning Circle +1 Rego (virtue 3)
- Lesser Feature: Loom +1 Rego (virtue 4)
- Lesser Feature: Balance +1 Rego (virtue 5)
Free Structure Virtues:
- Defenses: Portcullis +1 As
- Superior Construction: +1 As, +1 Safety
- Idyllic Surroundings: +1 As, +2 Health, +1 Creo
- Grand Entrance (off the peristylium) +2 As
- Studio (the peristylium, a very nice room and associated chambers) +2 As
Size +5
Refinement +0
General Quality: +0
Upkeep: +0
Safety: +2
Warping: +0
Health: +2
Aesthetics: +8 (eventual 40 xp in positive reputation related to lab)
Specializations:
Rego +3, Creo +1
Finished Lab Texts:
These notes were scribed by Flavius at the great library, but since they are all very common spells it is unlikely they are worth much in trade EXCEPT perhaps to a new covenant who might benefit from a good collection of common spells at equitable cost. Instead he saves them, though he has allowed the scribes at Semita to copy them for the library. The exception being spells he invented, which he controls tightly (he won't even let on the new spells exist until having donated them).
1 x The Earth Split Asunder ReTe 30*
1 x Ward against Faeries of the Wood ReHe 10*
1 x Snap of Awakening ReMe 10*
1 x Disguise of the Putrid Aroma ReAn 5
1 x Enslave the Mortal Mind ReMe 40
1 x Cloak of the Duck's Feathers ReAq 5
1 x Leap of Homecoming ReCo 35*
1 x Confusion of the Numbed Will ReMe 15
1 x Visions of the Infernal Terrors ReMe 30
1 x Circular Ward Against Demons ReVi 20*
1 x Freeing the Striding Tree ReHe 30*
1 x Gather the Essence of the Beast ReVi 15*
1 x Twist the Living Tree ReHe* 25
1 x Commanding the Harnessed Beast ReAn 30
1 x Crest of the Earth Wave ReTe 20*
1 x Wielding the Invisible Sling ReTe 10*
1 x Waves of Drowning and Smashing ReAq 30
2 x Touch of Lunar Serenity ReMe 25**
2 x Right of Lunar Authority ReMe 25**
1 x ?????? ***
1 x ?????? ***
*Great Library Spells he has learned as of Winter 1225
** Invented spells which he has traded in to the Great Library and to the Normandy Tribunal Collection (2 of 4 sets remain).
*** Taken in trade for Normandy contribution as of Winter 1225, he has yet to receive them, and will have 7 years to scribe his own copy and return (leaving this in play).
Raw Vis:
Stores: Rego 9 (Lion Teeth), Mentem 3 (Owl Feathers), Herbam 1 (Oak Galls), Vim 4 (Phials)
Semita Stipend: ????? pawns mentem vis per anum (Molted owl feathers from tame magical owls)
Arya, you decided to go with Portia as a Verditius after all?
Scott
Both Tamura and Flavius are now checked, double checked and presumably reviewed by the keen eyes of the troupe. Aside from some stuff that isn't critical to play they are good to go. The only thing of import for Flavius is how much vis does his covenant give as an annual stipend. I figure its fair to say that its equivalent to what the other PC Magi might receive from Nova Castra ... seeing as how I've positioned Semita as being still in late spring and not vis-rich it sould be equivalent to a fresh-spring covenant in a good location. Just my thoughts, am amicable to what works for the troupe as always
Also - any covenfolk or grogs we need statted? I could come up with a few simple chars. before play starts. What kind of people were sent along with the expedition?
Cheers,
Chris
Sorry, I wasn't around yesterday to check Flavius (it's probably best to leave at least 2-3 days, in case people are busy). I do have a few comments:
- You should have a default lab, without virtues and flaws, unless you specifically assign time to developing it (item 3 on Scott's post on "About this Saga and how to develop a character".)
- Philosophers of Rome always get taught the Virtue True Naming first, and Hermetic Evocation usually follows if being taught by mystagogues of the cult (pg 124 of TM:RE).
- What does your initiation script look like? You probably need to allow some extra time for quests/repaying the mystagogue for his time, or an initiation flaw. Ditto the time being taught cult lore.
- You're technically breaking Scott's limit on no more than 2 Tractatus on any given subject in a 5 year period for Mentem and Imaginem. Up to Scott if he wants to enforce this, as you're not breaking it over 14 years, just in 5 year blocks. It does potentially affect your ability to invent spells.
No worries ... much of this has been adressed, or can be changed:
- These labs, in both cases - are zero refinement. By the letter of the stated point they are in compliance ... but letter of the law stuff is just not a good way to answer this ... becuase it is about story. They are written into the history which had been up, and time was spent assuming control. Note that the vast majority of merits in both cases are structural, denoting how the building was built. It is entirely reasonable and germain to the story for those strucures to exist - and much was written about them in the background to support (i.e the buildings were built that way, hence the labs have the merits and flaws they do ... its not like Flavius is going to persoanlly build buildings anyway or that it would even be possible to "spend time" on structrual features after the building is built / rennovations are done). I felt that was in line with what the point meant, and in any event seemed to pass Scotts approval as he indictaed read the history that has been up for a bit.
If it is really some sort of issue, then consider that mundanes trained in experimental philosophy were hired to do the "construction" (the labs are interchangeable with Hermetic ones as per A&A) and again the season was spent assuming control. Again, no change in timeline and a default zero refinement score. If for some reason that isn't satisfactory then he can simply be a year older and the nescessary time appears ... though there is no good reason he can't just hire an academic-alchemist from a university somewhere (likely using the covenfolk as intermediaries or just get a muslim one, since magicians are OK in Islamic society and skilled philosophers are common just across the way in Granada) and the academic fellow can oversee the work crews as they spruce the places up with some rennovations.
- I am fine with that, all that means is that I need to shuffle around something to make some time a few years back to add the second virtue as the section you indicates the usual induction resulted in two merits. I thought someone in the truope might object to a double intiation. The text also contradicts itself somewhat and says "there is no set system of degrees or order in whaich they are acquired" - same page, both absolute statements, but perhaps you missed that (not being snarky there, just noting how easy it is to miss something in some of the text). So I went with Theurgy becuase it seemed fun, and it was a single merits that gets somewhere as opposed to two merits which I didn't wish to risk due to balance.
Again ... regardless of how it goes I am fine with starting with whatever merit ... just being in the cult is what I was going for
- The initiation script looks like the sample one in the cult writeup on page 123. Drop in another merit, change some of the flavour or do the hokey pokey or something - et voila. One of the reasons I like the philosophers is they don't seem big on Ordeals, as the typical script and general flavour show. Since this is a Magus, ordeals are specifically not required in scripts ... it just makes the script bonuses smaller.
On that note, have others begun with merits restricted to mystery cults? If so are we writing up the scripts in a certain fashion?
- Not according to my count. You may wish to count again. Starting from the begining, with 5 year periods, and I think you will see I am in compliance. If you can tell me specifically which tracatus is out of period I will reorder it fair and square. It is possible that I am mistaken, but I was pretty cautious on that. Perhaps you are mistaking some of the sources denoted as summa (SU) for tracatus (TR).
EDIT: Checked again, inserted tags in the advancement post as I went. Everything still looks fine to me.
I have to disagree about the potential ... the potential to invent spells is not really in question, there is so much slack in the advancement and the rate of tracatus reading is so far below 2/5 over the course of 13 years (not 14) that there is no material concern ... it is a matter of reordering even if there is some sort of error as regards block boundaries.
I made a point of doing an advancement that was sub optimal and conservative for two reasons. First is that I don't want to strain game balance, second I don't have time to keep redoing advancement when it's so 'tight' a build that one error shatters everything.
Cheers,
Chris
P.S. Thank you though, the detailed advancement process is pretty long and thus prone to error. It is handy to have someone willing to read through it - I sincerely appreciate the effort.
I'll try to have a look at Flavius tonight in order to deal with the issues in question. I haven't had a time to look at the finished version yet.
Scott
TY - much appreciated. And as before, I am amenable to changes if I've made errors. The build is very loose, so easy peasy, lemon squeezy
Cheers,
Chris
The exact wording is "with a default (0) lab--unless you specifically devote time to developing a lab". I'd interpreted "default" to mean with no virtues or flaws, but I agree that it could be interpretted to just mean 0 refinement. I think this is a call for Scott as to what he actually meant. I would note that I'm slightly dubious about you having free access to two different specialised labs, though, as the fact that you're effectively covering the flaws of one with the other means you're only really seeing their virtues, and thus you're getting more benefit than from a "default" lab.
Are the labs something specific from Semita Errabunda you're reproducing, or did you create them, by the way?
Sorry, bad wording on my part. I think the relevant section is just saying that Hermetic Evocation is usually the next virtue, rather than anything particular about the timescale it's initiated on. I'd been taking the "no set series of initiations and degrees" to refer to later initiations - lots of the other cults have things like 7 degrees, each of which you pass through in a certain order and which are associated in specific virtues. By that standard, one or two standard initial initiations is pretty loose.
I've also just realised that there's another contradictory bit on the box on page 123 that states that the first virtue is usually Hermetic Synthemata. Investigating it further, the section on page 124 has been errated (atlas-games.com/arm5/arm5errata.php#AG0279), to say that the first initiation is always Hermetic Synthemata and the second usually Spell Binding.
I think the other people who've got initiations are Portia and Viola, although neither are parts of esoteric mysteries. Neither have got specific scripts posted I don't think (although I'll admit to having not rechecked all 27 pages of the thread in detail), althoug presumably as Viola's initiations were picked up in play in a previous game, they do exist for her somewhere. One of Portia's is a standard Verditius one, which does seem to have followed the script as far as I can tell (I don't think Arya did detailed advancement, but she has the expected flaw). Hmmm. Actually, I'm not sure Portia doesn't have too many gained virtues for her time post gauntlet. Arya?
The standard ordeal has a season of the mystagogue's time in, though, which you explicitly need to compensate him/her for (anyone involved in the Philosophers is unlikely to be an altruist). You're almost certainly going to need ordeals in later initiations in play, given the Philosophers' tendency to use self-initiation - trying to get a new minor virtue that way is a target level of 18, and for a major virtue level 30.
I think we're counting 5 year periods differently - I'd been counting it as any 5 year period, whereas I assume you're dividing it into specific 5 year periods based on his start date? This is probably another call for Scott as to what he meant.
Okay. I admit I hadn't actually counted all of these in detail - I was mostly just commenting on it as something to be careful of if you did end up reworking it (I spot-checked some of your totals, but not all of them).
By my summation, you've gained 577 xp in 14 years (that's probably slightly wrong, as I've only been through it once, so probably missed/double-counted a season or so), for an average of 41xp a year, before allowing for spell levels. You've also got 345 levels of spells gained during the period. If you count spell levels as 1xp per year (dubious, but how the standard system works), that equates to about 66 xp per year. Using non-detailed character creation, you'd have got 30xp per year not spent in the lab, which would have to cover spells at 1xp per level as well as arts/abilities. Granted Book Learner and Apt Student mean it's reasonable for you to have a bit more than 30xp a year, but I don't think your advancement is at all bad.
As I admitted earlier, I haven't actually checked every single sum - I've tended to do spot checks, and then check everything in the area if the spot checks show errors. I'm aware I'm being quite critical and at times probably excessively nitpicky - I'm afraid I do have a mind which is very good (although far from perfect, as has also been shown) at remembering minor rules details and finding errors. I should also admit that I haven't subjected all of the characters in this thread to the same level of scrutiny - the early ones haven't really had it, partly because, whilst I've read through most of the books once and can remember obscure elements of them I've still not actually played the game. Also, I'd been assuming everyone else was checking all the sheets in detail, which, given I wasn't, was in retrospect not a good assumption.
"I think we're counting 5 year periods differently - I'd been counting it as any 5 year period, whereas I assume you're dividing it into specific 5 year periods based on his start date? This is probably another call for Scott as to what he meant."
Period has a very specific meaning, I'm an accounting major - this I know. How you would be achieving what you describe is, however, a mystery to me. Periodization is the attempt to categorize or divide time into named blocks. The result is a descriptive abstraction that provides a useful handle on periods of time with relatively stable characteristics. However, determining the precise beginning and ending to any "period" is often a matter of debate - becuase time is granular and so there will always be time in between periods (down to planck time I suppose). Thus a period always has a begining and an end, or else measurement in an objective fashion becomes impossible. To count the period in the first place, you have to establish it. Also, I really can't go on what was meant - I have no other recourse but to read what was written ... and I'm just not redoing the whole advancement. No, I'll make changes ... but there is no way another complete redo is happening.
Imagine how one would arrange a callendar, a year, month, etc. in any other fashion but the one I describe. If you do, let me know and we'll go claim the noble prize - if you are so kind as to cut me in for half - joke there ). Not really any room for debate on period, its one of those concepts defined in antiquity that forms the foundation of our knowledge base as a society.
As to the labs, I am again easy. I don't need access to both and time can be made if required. That said, I'll be setting up both eventually either in play or in advancement so its probably not productive to make too much hay on the issue. A reason I like Semita is they have lots of space, everyone has their own house, own property, there is a big valley ... and for this character that is an extension of his personal story ... having a house etc. is part of Flavius. The same way many players feel lab design is part of a magus PC.
Of course, there is also the matter or recieving the same consideration as any other player of a magus - in this saga players get to decide what they want their eventual labs to look like ... and the startup conditions are, to a certain extent, shaped to match. Or so earlier posts indicated. In the end, its a villa with a guest house - in the scope of an Ars magica saga thats justifying far less than any magic item, intiation, etc., etc. That is no different than what I have done by writing the story for my background.
As for having access to two labs, there isn't even anthing remotely wrong with that. Especially when they are both cheap upkeep labs.
As to the virtues for philosphers, this is why I was thinking that the "there is no set sequence" applies. But by way of compromise I would go with any of the listed virtues. I am in fact toying now with cutting the activites of one season and so making room for a two season intiation for the Hermetic Synthemata and Spell Binding. A nice thing about the philosophers is that it gives me a reason to try and improve Flavius vim. A good ongoing goal in game.
I think in this case also, I am due the same consideration that has been shown to other players. I mean seriously, we have a verditous who IMHO is very very young to be a unicorn in the Order of the Green Cockrel - especially given all the crud one has to go through to get to such a rank, and what one is supposed to be doing at that rank (I am assuming the involvement in the cult was kept a secret between player and SG becuase it does strain credulity to think an individual gained all of those virtues on their own with the only mystery cult lore at 2). We've also got a maga who's been to the magic realm itself - thats supposed to be reallly rare from what I've read. Now I'm not throwing stones ... I am happy that someone else has something they like, and are having fun with it. All of these things and fifty more I've seen are possible, and they were done for the fun of it. So lets not get too worked up over what I'm doing here ... all in all I've been very reasonable in my char gen, listeing to peoples thoughts on what they think my characher should be like ... but I feel my char is well in line with the examples set by the troupe in terms of style and compliance to guidelines.
As to detailed advancement relative to quick advancement, it is well known that quick advancment sucks in terms of XP ... apples and oranges really. Anyone who does detailed will come out waaay differently than with quick. Quick advancement is so differnet from how a characher advances in play it sort of bothers me from a balance perspective. I wasn't counting total xp as its not really relevant to the guidelines - and there was enough other counting to do
But all in all, no worries. No need for anyone to get excited ... everyone is held to the same standard in a troupe ... so it will all work itself out. Please, find errors and they can be ruthlessly eliminated.
Cheers,
Chris
Yep, I updated the background to reflect it. She'd been apprenticed as a Verditius, ganked by an opportunistic Trianoman magus, Gauntleted, declared orbus, and re-joined House Verditius.
Toldja. "Hot damn mess."
OK. Other than an amusing story, what's the reason for that? I ask solely out of curiosity.
Oh, and since Portia is the leading lab rat in the saga, do you have intentions towards designing a lab?
Scott
This part appears still to need editing.
I think Rodrigo would be a "cousin", actually.
As you point out, this is a very easy trick. What has kept other magi or covenants in the past from employing it to create wealth? Does all the traveling and bargaining with bakers cost Flavius valuable time? (I should think so.)
This doesn't really fit the background given: you say that his mother left him to study on his own. In fact, an apprentice left to study on his own (from a library or vis) will get a a lot more XP's than the standard amount. The standard, apparently, relies on the assumption that an apprentice spends most of his time acting as a lab assistant.
Aside from the problem of verisimilitude, my concern with Weak Parens is that it has little meaning for a magus past Gauntlet, especially in a situation where the player gets to pick the age of his character. Can we find something else more appropriate?
He didn't know spells at the time of learning this Ability--though he can certainly change specializations later, once he reaches a score of 2.
Ditto for spirits.
How does this not require an AC?
Scott
My first thought is that the lab in question would need to belong to the teacher in order to gain the Teaching Specialty bonus, though on literal reading of the rules what you've done is legal. It does however pose a problem with the character generation guidelines (see below).
Ugh, I thought Book Learner was +2--now I have to go back and redo Viola 
. Summa Quality depends on level: if it's 5 or below (for an Art) or 3 or below (for an Ability), you can use Quality 12. (That's a slight change from the original, BTW--until a minute ago I'd forgotten to give a different max level for the higher Quality for Abilities.)
He'd get Exposure XP's for this sort of thing (and also for setting up or taking over a lab).
It's spelled "Imaginem". And while we're at it, the singular of "regiones" is "regio" .
As has already been noted, I did say the default (no bonuses or penalties) labs. If you really want a lab like this, take the required three seasons to set it up (one for each Minor Virtue), and if you want to use Missing Equipment, pick activities that are actually relevant for this character in this time period--that is, pick something that inconvenienced him by forcing him to do it somewhere else, at greater cost or less efficiency. If, after changing those two Flaws, the Upkeep is above 0, nix the Superior Equipment. If setting up the lab doesn't fit the backstory, find another way to waste three seasons without getting more than Exposure XP's for two of them and a short Story for the third, and without producing anything useful.
Putting aside the deviation from the character generation guidelines, how is it that this lab's main speciality is Flavius' rather than his mother's? And even if we were to allow this, the Reputation XP's would go to his mother, not him.
If you're going to save vis, his total should be five pawns a year, less any he used. You can work backwards from that to calculate a stipend, if that's what you want the source of it to be.
Scott
I've got a document written by Mark Faulkner creating a mystery cult called "The Bright Ones". I have to admit he created it largely to my personal tastes, but only in the sense of what mysteries are included--the scripts are pretty much straight from the book, with a few minor variations. I need to edit it to fit our saga's use of the RAW and house rules, and then I'll post it...somewhere...maybe with Viola's character sheet?
Scott
- You are correct on the editing. Missed that second sentence.
- The specialties are written with the final version in mind and are not critical to advancement. Consider them whatever fits at the time. Though note that simply bcause he doesn't know something doesn't mean he can be trained in preparation. Its a topic in developmental HR ... and in the education system they do it in Kindergartens. Many of the formative activities in kindergarten prepare the kiddos for facets of much later academic life. This is easily interpreted as setting specialties.
- That was not meant to exclude the need for an AC, merely to point out the specific method is not required. He could use a stone, or half a loaf of bread, or whatever works too ... he just likes the splinter of wood as an AC / behind closed doors method and thats how the spell was named.
- Any suggestions on another minor instead of weak parens? I can find something else I am sure, but there is no inspiration right this moment.
- The sweet cakes, well thats now a matter of synergy. Its not just one trick ... all of his spells fit the business of sweet cakes. He can disguise himself, he can spy on people, he can teleport/levitate to travel without significant time ... the variant tasty spell is only the end of a whole 'business model' or in his paradigm 'spell model'. He likely spent a goodly amount of his apprentiship thinking "how can I do someting like this?" and he had an apprentiship with the rare level of independance to be able to choose a few of the spells he learned (likely from being left in the sanctum and told "learn something useful when we are away").
So the answer to your question of why the average covenant doesn't do this is actually right in your own question. Most covenents would be looking for a trick to make money ... they would think of "how do we learn A spell to make money ... what spell would IT be" ... well its not just one trick. Thats the wrong way of thinking, its actually having the right set of tools and putting them into a process. Thats what makes the business of sweetcakes time efficient and lucrative for Flavius.
Much in the same way that some modern great idea is invented, like Facebook. Then people go - oh, yeah! Well it's not just an "oh yeah!", for the inventor there was a process behind it. People who aren't Mr. Zuckerberg aren't the inventors of facebook ... becuase they didn't invent it - he did (to paraphrase one of the best lines of the movie). Edison is another example ... he romanticised the invention of the lightbulb with the incandesing filament and so much has been made of him haveing "the bright idea" in a moment of discovery ... what most people don't realize is he had huge backing, an incredible team of many engineers and a development process ... he had little to do with much of the work, but was good at managing the process and taking the credit. Again, just trying to highlight how its a matter of paradigm that makes what Flavius does different from 'a trick' and thats why most covenants might do something like it, but it will take them more time, make them less money.
I really don't see it taking much time at all for him. Once the distribution is set up, which is a matter of some social contacts, a mirror, and some use of the disguise spell. Then he pops into his distribution hub - somewhere he won't be seen teleporting and somewhere he can get the raw material on hand (which is where bakers are, so it will be there ... no moving of goods beyond what is nescessary as misdirection to mimic import) ... he then makes the sweet-flour on site with a few castings. He then unlocks the door, apprentices to the bakers come to take the product and deliver the money. He varies it up a bit so that nothing looks suspicous, takes some measures so that no one realizes he is a wizard ... like having the flour carted in from another place. The bakers get a rare commodity at a decent price, with the import seeming plausible - no one is interested in rocking the boat. Eventually, when he gets is ReMe spells people just do what he says. He still keeps it plausible, easy for their minds to go along with so they arent fighting themselves mentally - and there you have it.
Also note that a few covenants doing something like this here and there doesn't preclude it from being good for Flavius to do it. There are identical, really good businesses operating in many markets everywhere. One more thing that makes Flavius really good at doing something like this is that he can choose to do it where he likes (magical travel).
Plus I think its a much more subtle and interesting way of doing things that just ReMe 'give me your monies' or some other crude, one trick pony, approach.
Cheers,
Chris
P.S. Looking back on the previous post of mine I sound a bit adversarial. Not intended, though maybe I was reliving the first attempt at the magus ... which admitedly did get me a bit hot under the collar. Not so now though, just want to make sure everying is fair and square and this time people don't trample on some of the stylistic elements that I've worked on just becuase it isn't what they would do, or it isn't what their style is.