Whenever someone can post the stats for the appropriate Kipchak mounted cavalry bow (I don't have LoM and don't intend to buy it) I will come up with combat stats and post Sevil in the character sheets thread.
It's just a regular short bow--all short bows are compound recurve bows, like the Kipchak one.
Scott
True enough, but of course the Council can share out that half as well, if it decides to.
Scott
Lords of Men has the following stats (as well as stats for bows, longbows and crossbows):
Composite Bow:
Init: -2
Atk: 4
Dfn: 0
Dam: 7
Range: 30
Str: 2
Load: 2
Cost: Exp
Damage Levels: 2
Horse Bow:
Init: -2
Atk: 5
Dfn: 0
Dam: 8
Range: 15
Str: 2
Load: 2
Cost: Exp
Damage Levels: 2
The composite bow is described as being used by Turks and Mongols (as well as various others). The horse bow is just described as being suitable for use from horseback.
The composite bow stats are the same as those for a longbow (which makes sense, since the English longbow was composite). The horse bow stats are an upgraded short bow--since all short bows are composite, I'm not sure they're needed, but maybe they just represent a higher-quality short bow.
Scott
I'm coming to the conclusion you may be right. I'd be assuming that the spell would mark changes in material affected by stating "base n, +1 affect stone", etc., but none of the Rego Terram spells actually seem to have an explicit modifier, even though, for example, the MuTe Edge of the Razor spell does, and indeed, some of the ReTe spells have a base that wouldn't otherwise make sense (e.g. Wielding the Invisible Sling, which hurls stones, has a base of 4. There is no base 4 guideline, but there is the level 3 guideline to move dirt in a very unnatural fashion).
This still doesn't explain how Unseen Arm is able to affect metal (which it explicitly can), but, ah well.
I got Lords of Men for my birthday on Saturday, and after some more reading, mostly on Wikipedia, I'm still a little at a loss. Most northern European bows seem to have been self long bows (that is, non-composite). I can't find any historical reference to short self bows, and/or composite longbows other than the late medieval Welsh/English variety, though Ancient Magic says the Mongols used them. The "Horse Bow" is obviously a composite short bow, perhaps more powerful than the usual variety because it's not only recurve but reflex, which would make the "Bow" a normal composite short bow. The "Composite Bow" stats actually look about right for a self longbow--which, I've read, is actually better for flight archery (due to higher velocity arrows) than a (presumably short) composite bow.
At any rate, I think the Horse Bow would be the most accurate choice for a Kipchak character.
Scott
Conceptual framework:
Patrick the Unrepentant, Tytalus
The Gift, Magus, Self-Confident (free)
Animal Ken (mSup)
Voice of the Forest (mSup)
Inoffensive to Animals (mG)
Inventive Genius(mH)
Affinity with Animal Handling (mG)
Minor Magic Focus - Wards* (mH)
Flexible Formulaic Magic +3 (MH)
Independent Study (+2 Practice XP, +3 Adventure XP, HoH:MC 86) (mG)
Flaws
Oversensitive - Slurring the Irish (mP)
Indiscreet (MS) -3
Lost Love (mP)
Visions - dead daughter (mSup)
Magic Addiction (MH) -3
Weird Magic (mH)(mSup)
Concept Highlights
-born blessed by The Forest
-Goes back to his hometown after Gauntlet, marries his childhood sweetheart
-has Gifted baby girl
-picks up Hermetic Numerology, Geometry
-loses wife, daughter to some supernatural beast about 5 years later
-starts having Visions of his daughter
-spends the next while losing himself in drinking, hunting and pretending to be merry
-loses Certamen challenge, requiring him to introduce himself as “the Unrepentant”
-arrives at saga, shortly before his first Aging roll
Notable Skills
Animal Ken
Animal Handling (taming)
Magic Lore
Carouse (drinking)
Brawl(restraining)
Craft:Wood (Whittling)
Edit: * I keep forgetting that "Wards" for most people means "abusing the Magic Resistance rules." The Minor Focus is meant to be in barriers, restraints, circles of warding, that sort of thing.
Looks generally good, although there are a few places I can't see where things fit together. A few thoughts:
- Where's he picking up Hermetic Geometry and Numerology from? Which mystery cult has he joined?
- I'm not sure how much extra utility you're going to get from Voice of the Forest, given you've already got Inoffensive to Animals and Animal Ken. Also, bear in mind that whilst there is a small forest north of the covenant, most of the local environment is plains/marsh(/sea).
- Wards seems reasonable as a minor focus (I have a nagging feeling I've seen it canonically, but I can't work out where). Useful for him being able to protect himself/trap the creatures he's hunting?
- I like the certamen challenge.
Fraternity of Samos is the only one that I know of which teaches it. I got the idea from Reign the Conqueror and was thinking about having him be a member of a secret cult of Mystic Pythagorean Assassins, but that idea is still brewing.
Warding rings + Hermetic Geometry + Flexible Formulaic Magic seem like an interesting combination useful for hunting and combat in general. I may have to give him points in Great Weapon(staff), so he can quickly scribe 6ft-radius perfect circles.
I am likewise uncertain about the value of so many virtues focused on animal interactions and how they will overlap, which is why I posted this info before moving forward with char gen.
Pythagorean assassins sounds a bit odd (although I haven't seen Reign: The Conqueror) - probably something you'll need to run past MTKnife. The standard Fraternity of Samos doesn't seem a brilliant fit due to their asceticism.
Reign is extremely odd. It's the story of Alexander the Great as told by the people who wrote Aeon Flux. The Macedonians have giant transforming mecha, the Pythagorean Cult of Assassins are ninja warriors who attack people with math and geometric spells, and in true Aeon Flux fashion, nobody is wearing any pants.
I agree that the Fraternity of Samos doesn't fit very well. I suppose I could always join the pyramid scheme of the Children of Hermes. MTKnife, can we make up a new mystery cult that starts by teaching Numerology and Geometry?
Here is the complete 1st draft of Patrick the Unrepentant:
Patrick the Unrepentant, Tytalus, 1st draft
Voting Sigil - a ring bearing celtic knotwork and a wolf’s head
Casting Sigil - arctic wolf effects (howls, coloration, wolf-ish-ness)
The Gift, Magus, Self-Confident (free)
Animal Ken (mSup)
Inoffensive to Animals (mG)
Inventive Genius(mH)
Affinity with Animal Handling (mG)
Warrior instead of Voice of Forest
Minor Magic Focus - Wards (mH)
Flexible Formulaic Magic +3 (MH)
Independent Study (+2 Practice XP, +3 Adventure XP, HoH:MC 86) (mG)
Flaws
Oversensitive - Slurring the Irish (mP)
Indiscreet (MS) -3
Lost Love (mP)
Visions - dead daughter (mSup)
Magic Addiction (MH) -3
Weird Magic (mH)(mSup) (would prefer something else, but nothing comes to mind yet)
Concept Highlights
born blessed by The Forest
Goes back to his hometown after Gauntlet, marries his childhood sweetheart
has Gifted baby girl
loses wife, daughter to some supernatural beast about 5 years later
starts having Visions of his daughter
spends the next while losing himself in drinking, hunting and pretending to be merry
loses Certamen challenge, requiring him to introduce himself as “the Unrepentant”
arrives at saga, shortly before his first Aging roll
Personality Traits : Reckless +1, Generous +1, Discreet -2
Characteristics:
Int +2 Per 0 Age: 20
Pre 0 Com 0 Size: 0
Str +1 Sta +2 Confidence: 2 /5
Dex 0 Qik 0 Afflictions: None
Abilities 0-point skills are ones I mean to pick up post-apprenticeship
Area Lore Ireland 2 (villages)
Animal Handling* 3 (taming)
Athletics 1 (balance)
Awareness 1 (search)
Brawl 0
Carouse 0
Concentration 0
Craft: Wood 0 (whittling)
Hunt 0
Music 0
Prof: Scribe 0 (copying)
Stealth 1 (shadowing)
Survival 2 (forests)
Teaching 0
Language, Gaelic 5 (Irish)
Language, Latin 4 (written)
Artes Liberales 1 (mathematics)
OoH Lore 0
Philosophiae 0
____Cult Lore 0 (members)
Dominion Lore 0
Faerie Lore 0
Finesse 0
Infernal Lore 0
Magic Lore 0 (taming)
Magic Theory 3 (spells)
Parma Magica 1 (Rego)
Penetration 0
Single Weapon 5 (when war-painted)
Animal Ken 3 (charm)
Arts
Creo 5 Intellego 5 Muto 5 Perdo 0 Rego 5
Animal 5 Auram 0 Aquam 0 Corpus 0 Herbam 5
Ignem 0 Imaginem 0 Mentem 0 Terram 0 Vim 5
Spells
Image of the Beast InAn 5 Arc, Mom, Ind
*Ward against Beasts of Legend ReAn 20 Touch, Ring, Circle
Bind Wound CrCo 10 Touch, Sun, Ind
Eyes of the Cat MuCo(An) 5 Touch, Sun, Ind
Intuition of the Forest InHe 10 Touch, Sun, Group
*Tangle of Wood and Thorns ReHe 15 Voice, Conc, Ind
Wizard’s Sidestep ReIm 10 Per, Sun, Ind
Words of Unbroken Silence CrMe 10 Sight, Mom, Ind
Invisible Sling of Vilanos ReTe 10 Voice, Mom, Ind
Trackless Step ReTe10 Touch, Conc, Ind
Gather the Essence of the Beast ReVi 15 Touch, Mom, Ind
From the How To Create A Character thread, do I correctly understand that you want us to advance season by season?
...Or, alternately, I could design him as originally intending to join the Fraternity of Samos, but then his family dies, and he goes from a Good Little Lab Rat to a death-seeking Magic Animal Tamer?
Had a quick look through the immediately post-gauntlet version of Patrick. Looks largely fine; only points are:
- His age isn't right - you've spent 360 xp (375 before the affinity and free xp for animal ken, and ignoring native language), which after subtracting 50xp for warrior, 240 for apprenticeship and 45xp for childhood, leaves 25 xp to come from later life.
- I don't think Techniques are valid specialities for Parma - if they were, it would specify any one Art, as it does for Magic Theory, rather than any one Form.
- By "spells", I assume you mean inventing spells? (Probably not many circumstances where'd they be different but there might be the odd time you needed to know something about a spell, or something.)
It's optional how you advance post-gauntlet - you can either do it season by season, or use the standard method in the book.
Only other thought is that the Tytalus are traditionally rather nasty about wolves (savage nature, unpleasant disposition, habit of feasting on the corpses of the slain, etc.). This is purely due to their attitude to the Tremere, who in turn have quite a big wolf focus (gentle with each other, savage to their enemies, serve their families). This isn't necessarily a reason not to have a wolf theme, but it's something to be aware of.
I don't see any reason why not--except it has to start with one, and then teach the other, not both at once. Are you planning to start as a member, or do you want it to happen in play?
Scott
I'd like to pick both of them up post-Gauntlet, pre-saga. He'll be 33 when he arrives at the game. To speed things up, how about we assume a set of initiation requirements similar to Samos for at least the first two circles?
The affinity is in Animal Handling, not Animal Ken, though after doing a run-through of the aging, I think it might be wiser to switch that to a Rego Affinity. I just double-checked the math, and it seems right by my count (Early Life, then straight to Apprenticeship).
I'll check book examples for Parma and MT specialties and pick something more appropriate.
I hadn't known of these attitudes, but there are very few predators that are native to Ireland, and wolves were the only appealing one. We'll mark it as something to note.
Speaking of things to note, my net-access is going to be spotty from next Thursday until the end of April. I'll be checking in mostly on my phone.
First pass on the Sulayman ex Criamon. Realize that the arts and abilities are just out of gauntlet but the virtues and flaws ( and warping) are +15 years out. I need one more virtue. I'm still playing with his goals as a mage which may reflect on the final virtue. It will also help me decided his minor flaws from warping. I'm debating on the outsider flaw so it may change or stay.
He will be traveling to Base Camp to study the magical site and surrounding sites. He may stay. He is from the Levant Tribunal. Educated in a Muslim Madrass(sp?) until he was found by his Parens.
Sulayman ex Criamon
Birth name: Al-Malik al-Nasir Salah al-din Sulayman ibn Ali ibn Ja’Far al-Maqdisi
Religion: Muslim
Nationality/Race: Arab
Age: 39 (30)
Warping: 3
Int +3 Per +1 Pre +1 Com +2
Str 0 Sta 0 Dex 0 Qui -1
Personality Traits
Reputations
Virtues
The Enigma 0*
Secondary Insight 3
Puissant Creo 1
Puissant Enigmatic Wisdom 1
Good Teacher 1
Educated(Muslim)(RoP:D) 1
Improved Characteristics 1
minor virtue 1
Affinity Creo 1
Gentle Gift 0**
*Free House
** Path of Walking Backwards
*** Warping
Flaws
Deficient Form Perdo 3 H
Outsider 3 Social
Ability Block - Martial 1 General
Generous 1 P
Humble 1 P
Mentor 1 Story
Pious 0**
Noncombatant 0**
Vow - Help injured 0**
Minor Flaw 0***
minor flaw 0***
Abilities:
Arabic 5
Folk Ken(Peasants) 2
Greek 4
Survival 1
Theology: Islam 2
Artes Liberales 2
Latin 4
Islamic Law 1
Bargain 2
Chirugry 1
Teaching 2
Concentration 1
Profession(scribe) 1
Awareness 1
Parma Magica 1
Magic Theory 3
Enigmatic Wisdom 1+2
========================= 235
Arts:
Cr 14+3 In 5 Mu 3 Pe 1 Re 4
An 5 Aq 3 Au 4 Co 5 He 5
Ig 3 Im 4 Me 4 Te 3 Vi 4
=================205
I'll need to read that. Which book is it in, and what's the page number?
I think there was a cult that might work in the original Mysteries, wasn't there?
Scott
Mystic Fraternity of Samos, TMRE 126.
1st Circle: Artes Liberales(mathematics) 3, Philosophiae 3, Music 1, Samos Lore 1, teaches Numerology.
2nd Circle: AL(geometry) 4, create Numerologist Book, memorize Rotes (both are only available through Numerology), teaches Geometry
For the original Mysteries, did you mean the Cult of Pythagoras (pg 157)? Very little detail there.
I can flesh it out if that's what you want to do. What kind of cult did you have in mind?
Scott