Character Development

[Salutor]

@amul

The affinity is in Animal Handling, not Animal Ken, though after doing a run-through of the aging, I think it might be wiser to switch that to a Rego Affinity. I just double-checked the math, and it seems right by my count (Early Life, then straight to Apprenticeship).

Sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant the affinity, and the free xp from animal ken as two separate items. I'm still not getting the xp to add up, though - I've summed up how I think it breaks down below.

Early life - 45xp:
Area Lore Ireland 2 (villages) 15
Athletics 1 (balance) 5
Awareness 1 (search) 5
Stealth 1 (shadowing) 5
Survival 2 (forests) 15

Native language 5 (free)

Warrior - 50xp
Single Weapon 4 - 50xp, needs an additional 25 xp to get to skill 5 as per statline.

Apprenticeship - 240xp:
7 Arts at score 5 = 715 = 105xp
Latin 4 - 50xp
Magic Theory 3 - 30xp
Animal Handling 3 - 30xp, but 20xp due to affinity.
Warrior 4 -> 5 - 25xp.
Artes Liberales 1 - 5xp
Parma Magica 1 - 5xp

That still leaves Animal Ken 3 (30xp, but 25xp due to getting level 1 free) unbought. Were you thinking that you could get up to skill 5 rather than 4 with Warrior?

[Salutor]

@jebrick

First pass on the Sulayman ex Criamon. Realize that the arts and abilities are just out of gauntlet but the virtues and flaws ( and warping) are +15 years out. I need one more virtue. I'm still playing with his goals as a mage which may reflect on the final virtue. It will also help me decided his minor flaws from warping. I'm debating on the outsider flaw so it may change or stay.

Thoughts:

• The covenant is in a Muslim area, so being a Muslim isn't going to be a major flaw. Come to that, I don't think magi are even allowed to take social statuses that don't explicitly state they're compatible with Hermetic Magus.
• What are the warping flaws from? Bad Twilight experiences, or just the increase in warping score? If it's the latter, you don't have to have them - page 168 states that the increased risk of Twilight replaces the normal warping effects for Hemetic magi.
• If you're going to take Secondary Insight, I think there's a good case for houseruling it to be stronger than it is by RAW - MTKnife? What do you think?
• Not enough of your xp are in the only abilities you can take in early childhood.
• How old is he immediately post-gauntlet? 27? (I make the abilities sum to 240 rather than 235, after taking account of the 5 free xp for Enigmatic Wisdom). After subtracting 240xp from the apprenticeship, 50xp for educated and 45 xp for early life, that leaves 110xp, which implies slightly more than 7 years of early life before apprenticeship

[amul]

@Salutor

That still leaves Animal Ken 3 (30xp, but 25xp due to getting level 1 free) unbought. Were you thinking that you could get up to skill 5 rather than 4 with Warrior?

That. It was a typo on my sheet.

[MTKnife]

@Salutor

@jebrick

First pass on the Sulayman ex Criamon. Realize that the arts and abilities are just out of gauntlet but the virtues and flaws ( and warping) are +15 years out. I need one more virtue. I'm still playing with his goals as a mage which may reflect on the final virtue. It will also help me decided his minor flaws from warping. I'm debating on the outsider flaw so it may change or stay.

Thoughts:

[list][*]The covenant is in a Muslim area, so being a Muslim isn't going to be a major flaw. Come to that, I don't think magi are even allowed to take social statuses that don't explicitly state they're compatible with Hermetic Magus.

Agreed on both counts--being a magus already places you in a different social category.

[*]If you're going to take Secondary Insight, I think there's a good case for houseruling it to be stronger than it is by RAW - MTKnife? What do you think?

I've always thought this was a cool Virtue that wasn't worth taking, and so I'd be open to something, but I do want to remind that we're trying to stick as close to RAW as possible.

Scott

[jebrick]

@Salutor

@jebrick

First pass on the Sulayman ex Criamon. Realize that the arts and abilities are just out of gauntlet but the virtues and flaws ( and warping) are +15 years out. I need one more virtue. I'm still playing with his goals as a mage which may reflect on the final virtue. It will also help me decided his minor flaws from warping. I'm debating on the outsider flaw so it may change or stay.

Thoughts:

• The covenant is in a Muslim area, so being a Muslim isn't going to be a major flaw. Come to that, I don't think magi are even allowed to take social statuses that don't explicitly state they're compatible with Hermetic Magus.
• What are the warping flaws from? Bad Twilight experiences, or just the increase in warping score? If it's the latter, you don't have to have them - page 168 states that the increased risk of Twilight replaces the normal warping effects for Hemetic magi.
• If you're going to take Secondary Insight, I think there's a good case for houseruling it to be stronger than it is by RAW - MTKnife? What do you think?
• Not enough of your xp are in the only abilities you can take in early childhood.
• How old is he immediately post-gauntlet? 27? (I make the abilities sum to 240 rather than 235, after taking account of the 5 free xp for Enigmatic Wisdom). After subtracting 240xp from the apprenticeship, 50xp for educated and 45 xp for early life, that leaves 110xp, which implies slightly more than 7 years of early life before apprenticeship

1. I will remove outsider. It was based on RoP:D saying that a Muslim would take the Outsider flaw.
2. The flaws are a mis-reading on my part of the warping section. They have been removed in the new version.
3. Secondary insight - may change. I'm not using it during gauntlet but was planning on using it in the post gauntlet years.
4. Early Child points - Folk Ken 2, Greek 2, Survival 1 = 45
   5)I see my mistake. I had apprenticeship being 12 years Began apprenticeship at 12. 45 early childhood + 105 for years up to 12 + 50 for Educated Age at gauntlet = 27, real age = 42, apparent age = 32.

[Salutor]

@jebrick

4. Early Child points - Folk Ken 2, Greek 2, Survival 1 = 45.

Ah, sorry - I'd forgotten/missed the Greek.

[jebrick]

I'm looking at possibly changing Secondary insight and was looking at Major Magic Focus. I have a question. If the focus is Imaginem: Visual images is that only with images that just have a visual component? Or would it effect an image with visual other senses?

[jebrick]

Update on Sulayman. Changed some flaws in response to earlier comments. This is the post gauntlet version. I need to add more background but it is a start. He is going to be from the Covenant of Urania ( Levant Tribunal) which is not far from Base Camp. I will add 15 years to him if this is fine.

Sulayman ex Criamon
Birth name: Al-Malik al-Nasir Salah al-din Sulayman ibn Ali ibn Ja’Far al-Maqdisi
Religion: Muslim
Nationality/Race: Arab
Age: 27

Warping: 0

Int +3 Per +1 Pre +1 Com +2
Str 0 Sta 0 Dex 0 Qui -1

Personality Traits
Calm +2, Friendly +2, Thoughtful +1

Reputations

Virtues
The Enigma 0*
Secondary Insight 3
Puissant Creo 1
Puissant Enigmatic Wisdom 1
Good Teacher 1
Educated(Muslim)(RoP:D) 1
Improved Characteristics 1
Affinity Imaginem 1
Affinity Creo 1

*Free House

Flaws
Deficient Form Perdo 3 H
Supernatrual Nusanance 3(major story) Jinn
Ability Block - Martial 1 General
Generous 1 P
Humble 1 P
Harmless Magic 1 H

Abilities:
Arabic 5
Folk Ken(Peasants) 2
Greek 4
Survival 1
Theology: Islam 2
Artes Liberales 2
Latin 4
Islamic Law 1
Bargain 2
Chirugry 1
Teaching 2
Concentration 1
Profession(scribe) 1
Awareness 1
Parma Magica 1
Magic Theory 3
Enigmatic Wisdom 1+2
========================= 235

Arts:
Cr 14+3(70) In 5 Mu 3 Pe 1 Re 4
An 5 Aq 0 Au 4 Co 5 He 5
Ig 3 Im 7(19) Me 4 Te 2 Vi 4
=================205

Spells:
Bind Wound CrCo10 (19)
Airs Ghostly Form CrAu5
Jupiter’s Resounding Blow CrAu10
Stench of the twenty Corpes CrAu10
Trap of entwinging Vines CrHe15
Call to Slumber ReMe10
Revealed Flaws of Moral Flesh InCo10
Sense the nature of Vis InVi5
Lamp without Flame CrIg10
Wall of Living Wood CrHe25
Gentle touch of the Purified Body CrCo20

Al-Malik al-Nasir Salah al-din Sulayman ibn Ali ibn Ja’Far al-Maqdisi was born to a Muslim merchant in Jerusalem.

Sulayman was found when he was 12 by Abdkypris during his stay in the Levant Tribunal ( before he was Primas). He was given over to Spiral of the Hermatic Embassy Covenant in Baghdad for training. Spiral had a great interest in Sufi mysticism and Islamic magic. his studies have lead to the the Path of Walking Backwards

[MTKnife]

@jebrick

I'm looking at possibly changing Secondary insight and was looking at Major Magic Focus. I have a question. If the focus is Imaginem: Visual images is that only with images that just have a visual component? Or would it effect an image with visual other senses?

The latter would in practice include the vast majority of Imaginem spells, but the former seems nearly useless, since almost no spells include only images. Um...I'm not sure what the heck the author was thinking here.

Scott

[jebrick]

@MTKnife

@jebrick

I'm looking at possibly changing Secondary insight and was looking at Major Magic Focus. I have a question. If the focus is Imaginem: Visual images is that only with images that just have a visual component? Or would it effect an image with visual other senses?

The latter would in practice include the vast majority of Imaginem spells, but the former seems nearly useless, since almost no spells include only images. Um...I'm not sure what the heck the author was thinking here.

Scott

My thoughts exactly. I can punt it to the big board to see if the greater community has an opinion that makes sense.

[callen]

While it is pretty broad, it wasn't just the one instance. There is another example of Major Magical Focus in Illusions, which seems perhaps even a little broader.

Chris

[jebrick]

@callen

While it is pretty broad, it wasn't just the one instance. There is another example of Major Magical Focus in Illusions, which seems perhaps even a little broader.

Chris

IIRC, that is for clamor in another mystery.

[Salutor]

@jebrick

Update on Sulayman. Changed some flaws in response to earlier comments. This is the post gauntlet version. I need to add more background but it is a start. He is going to be from the Covenant of Urania ( Levant Tribunal) which is not far from Base Camp. I will add 15 years to him if this is fine.

Thoughts:

• I'm not very sure what my opinion on the focus question is. Major foci are meant to be less broad than a single Art, and it is slightly less broad than the whole of Imaginem, but not by that much. Allowing it to affect spells targetting only the visual component of images would still include things like invisibility, Wizard's Sidestep and basic illusions, so while limited I don't think its incredibly so.
• What are the jinni problems he has?
• I think your abilities still add up to 240xp rather than 235xp. This is even after taking into account getting 5xp from Enigmatic Wisdom.

Things I should have thought of last time:

• Maybe a level of Code of Hermes, Order of Hermes and House Criamon Lore? You'll certainly need House Criamon Lore once you start moving along the paths (pg 60 HoH:MC).
• Most of your abilities need specialities still.
• Nitpicking, I think it should be Sulayman Criamonis rather than Sulayman ex Criamon - the genitive form of the House name is used for all the houses expect Ex Misc. I'm going off durenmar.de/articles/naming.html here.

[MTKnife]

@Salutor

Things I should have thought of last time:

• Maybe a level of Code of Hermes, Order of Hermes and House Criamon Lore? You'll certainly need House Criamon Lore once you start moving along the paths (pg 60 HoH:MC).

I concur with this--these sorts of things probably should have been required at character creation in the rules.

• Nitpicking, I think it should be Sulayman Criamonis rather than Sulayman ex Criamon - the genitive form of the House name is used for all the houses expect Ex Misc. I'm going off durenmar.de/articles/naming.html here.

This is what I've thought for years, but I got tired of arguing with people about it. I don't think I've seen either in official materials, which actually use the English. That's why I just use the English myself.

Scott

[jebrick]

Changed the name to Sulayman Criamonis. Took one point from Bargining ( down to 1 ) and bought House Criamon Lore of 1. Salutor was right and I was 5 over so now I'm correct. i know most of my abilities need specialties but I did not want to put any until I was more firm in the character.

[MTKnife]

@jebrick

Changed the name to Sulayman Criamonis. Took one point from Bargining ( down to 1 ) and bought House Criamon Lore of 1. Salutor was right and I was 5 over so now I'm correct. i know most of my abilities need specialties but I did not want to put any until I was more firm in the character.

OK, that sounds like a good plan.

Scott

[amul]

Sorry, I got distracted by the weekend and house guests. Where are we in my character development?

I'm going to switch the Affinity for Animal Handling into an Affinity for Rego. Looking through the backlogs, I think this is the last question Scott asked me:

@MTKnife

@amul

Mystic Fraternity of Samos, TMRE 126.
1st Circle: Artes Liberales(mathematics) 3, Philosophiae 3, Music 1, Samos Lore 1, teaches Numerology.
2nd Circle: AL(geometry) 4, create Numerologist Book, memorize Rotes (both are only available through Numerology), teaches Geometry

For the original Mysteries, did you mean the Cult of Pythagoras (pg 157)? Very little detail there.

I can flesh it out if that's what you want to do. What kind of cult did you have in mind?

Something Christian, and militant, but philosophical and concerned with sharpening the mind into a blade. Sort of a "what do Flambeau, Tytalus and Tremere have in common?" group.

I have a very lighthearted romp through his life set up, and can post it when I get the all-clear on the at-gauntlet version. Conceptually, I'm ready for him to enter play whenever you give the go-ahead.

[MTKnife]

I have a very lighthearted romp through his life set up, and can post it when I get the all-clear on the at-gauntlet version. Conceptually, I'm ready for him to enter play whenever you give the go-ahead.

OK, go ahead and do that while I think about the cult.

Scott

[jebrick]

The Patrick step-by-step thread is useful because I'm doing the same thing. Already caught one mistake I had made.

One question. Do you have a normal payment in vis for being a lab assistant to a senior mage? 3 Technique or 5 form? Too low? Too high?

[jebrick]

First 5 years of Sulayman post gauntlet. Hopefully my notations are not that confusing. Normally it is xp gained then a notation as to the total. If it is a plus after the initial xp that means an affinity kicks in. I will have very short write ups for the adventures in his history. When he was taught House lore he is the only student.

year1:
s1 - Learn Criamon house Lore from teacher - 13xp
s2 - Enter Avenue of Surrender - House Path gain Gentle Gift and Pious flaw
s3 - Study Summa of Imaginem xp10+5 Im8(43) +2xp Creo(107), +1xp Rego (11)
s4 - Study Summa of Regio xp 10(Re 5(20)) +2 Im(45),+1 Vi(11), +1Co(16), +1 Au(11)(Im9(45)

Year2:
s1 - Study Tracti of creo- 10xp(15) Creo 15(122) Im+2(47)Vi +1, Co+1(17),Au+1(12)
s2 - Explored local regio 5xp to Enigmatic Wisdom 5xp to Bargain
s3 - Invents Discerning Own Illusions InIm15 Exposure 2+1xp Im(50)
s4 - Study Summa of Imaginem xp10+5 Im10(65),Creo+2xp(124),Re+1xp(Re6(21))

Year3:
s1:Study Summa Corpus +10xp Co6(27), Cr+2xp(126),In+1xp(16)
s2: Assist Matthias of Criamon in research Exposure MT2xp(32) payment 3 Cr vis
s3: Invents Wizard’s SideStep ReIm10 Exposure 2xp MT(34)
s4: Adventure with Djinn City 5xp to Enigmatic Wisdom 2 (15) 5xp to Parma

Year4:
s1: Learn Criamon House Lore from teacher - 13xp now 3(31)
s2: Enter Avenue of Healing - House Path Gain vow and Noncombatant flaws
s3: Studies Qur’an 10xp Theology(25)
s4: Studies Tracti Creo 10xp+5 Creo16(141) Im 1+1(67) Im 11, Co+1(28) Co 7, Au+1(14),Vi+1(14)

Year5:
s1: Assist Matthias of Criamon in research Exposure MT 2(36) Payment 5 Co vis
s2: Study Summa Corpus +10 xp Co8(38) +2 xp Cr(143), +1xp In (17)
s3: Adventure ticking the Order of Suleiman 5xp Theology 3 (30)5xp Parma 2(15)
s4: Develop +8 Longevity ritual LT=40

==============================Changes after 5 years
Abilities:
Arabic(poetry) 5
Folk Ken(Peasants) 2
Greek(books) 4
Survival (Desert) 1
Theology: Islam(Quran) 3
Artes Liberales(Astronomy) 2
Latin(conversation) 4
Islamic Law( ) 1
Bargain (haggling) 1(10)
Chirugry(diagnosis) 1
Teaching(Arts) 2
Concentration(spells) 1
Profession(scribe)( 1
Awareness( details) 1
Parma Magica (creo) 2
Magic Theory (inventing spells) 3
Enigmatic Wisdom(Twilight) 2+2
House Criamon Lore(Paths) 3

Arts:
Cr 16+3(143) In 5(17) Mu 3 Pe 1 Re 6(21)
An 5 Aq 0 Au 4(14) Co 8(38) He 5
Ig 3 Im 11(67) Me 4 Te 2 Vi 4(14)

Spells:
Bind Wound CrCo10 (27)
Airs Ghostly Form CrAu5 (23)
Jupiter’s Resounding Blow CrAu10 (23)
Stench of the twenty Corpes CrAu10 (23)
Trap of entwinging Vines CrHe15 (24)
Call to Slumber ReMe10 (10)
Revealed Flaws of Moral Flesh InCo10 (13)
Sense the nature of Vis InVi5 (9)
Lamp without Flame CrIg10 (21)
Wall of Living Wood CrHe25 (24)
Gentle touch of the Purified Body CrCo20 (27)
Wizard’s SideStep ReIm10 (17)
Discerning Own Illusions InIm15 (16)