Character Development

Spotless is the thing I'd query (even if it's briefly attained, an outdoor lab doesn't seem somewhere it'd last. I did briefly consider making my lab haunted (which is the really obvious supernatural flaw to take, given the covenant's circumstances), but didn't due to a) not knowing what the local ghosts are like yet and b) only intending to have Gregorius in the lab temporarily(ish).

Hmmm... Yes, that does seem like it would take some work to accomplish, especially in a run-down building.

Chris

True, especially given his Disorganized habits. Do I need to construct a coherent timeline, or try to balance the VFs at the different stages?

Virtues, in most cases, take time to add; if there's a good reason to delay the Flaws, you can do that, though obviously no one will complain if you take them immediately.

Scott

I see that it is apparently going to be spreadsheet time :slight_smile:

How about this?

Flawless Equipment
Flawless Tools
Spotless (disappears soon, maybe after a season?)

Outdoors -3
Natural Environment +3 (auto-available
Vulnerable -0
Uneven Floor -0
Disorganized -0
Missing Sanctum Marker -0

Spacious 1
Undecorated -1

Idyllic Surroundings 0
Magical Lighting 0
Magical Heating 0
Trough of Alteration 0

Outdoors gives me as much Size as I need, but without Spacious, I'd be at Safety -3. I could ditch some of the free flaws that are cutting into my Safety....

Oh, if this is after one season setting it up, it should be Basic, too. It takes two seasons to finish setting up a lab.

Chris

No. Portia is casting the Laboratory of Bonisagus. That makes a complete lab.

Oops. How had I missed that? Somehow in my mind it just turned into her creating materials for a lab. I will need to go back and adjust for that.

Chris

OK, here are my initial thoughts about Viola's lab. Right now I'm more looking for comments and ideas than presenting a finished product. Assuming one level of Regio (Size _3), Viola's Magic Theory is high enough for 8 points of Virtues. I think amul also hinted that he might add some things on his own. Likely specializations are Mu, An, He, Im, Teaching, and either Experimentation or Items.

Structure

Natural Environment (Major Virtue): +2 Aesthetics, +3 Arts (probably An and/or He); this would work if there's a river somewhere in the temple regio; the starry sky in the level Viola's currently in might also indicate a natural environment.

Gallery (Minor Virtue): +1 Safety, +1 Aesthetics, +1 Teaching; there's probably already a suitable platform somewhere in the temple, but, on the other hand, you're supposed to be able to observe the whole lab from the gallery, and I don't see how that's possible in most regiones (Viola's former lab had a spot right at the juncture of two regio levels where it was actually possible to build a platform from which either level could be viewed).

Lesser Feature (Minor Virtue); +1 Aesthetics, +1 appropriate specialization; probably a still for Mu specialization, but some kind of plant for He might work. Pot Plants would have the same benefit, but adds to Upkeep.

Deformed (Free Flaw): -1 Safety, -1 Aesthetics, +1 Mu; there's likely to be some part of the temple (in the regio levels) that's falling apart.

Outfittings

Lesser Expansion (Minor Virtue): +1 General Quality, +2 Upkeep, +1 any specialization.

Servant (Free Virtue): +1 Safety, +1 Aesthetics, +1 Me; this should be easy enough to do, though given the current amount of manpower at the covenant, it would probably involve recruiting a bright local.

Infested (Free Flaw): -1 Safety, -1 Aesthetics, +1 An or He; I"m not sure what form this would take.

Supernatural

Greater/Lesser Horder (Major/Minor Virtue): +1 Upkeep, +1 or higher Safety, +1/+2 Aesthetics, +1/+2 on appropriate specialization(s); the crones might serve this role (they'd have to be Greater if they're considered intelligent), but they might also be Inhabitants (or they might be the latter until won over and trained, at which point they'd become a Horde); in either case, Im might be an appropriate specialization.

Vis Source (Minor Virtue): -1 Safety, +1 Warpinig, +2 appropriate specialization(s); Viola has a pair of faerie wine casks that could be used in this way, but she's concerned about safety, and would rather not push Warping beyond +3.

Faerie Ingredients (Free Virtue): +1 General Quality, -1 Upkeep, +1 Warping, +1 Experimentation, +1 appropriate specialization; I'm not sure if this can be arranged, but it seems possible; something that would add a Mu specialization, or maybe An or He, would be best.

Regio (Free Virtue): +3 Size, +1 Warping; this could be taken twice, but that wold involve using the "Ma" level, and probably therefore taking the Labyrinth Flaw, which involves a Safety hit that Viola wouldn't want without a compensating Virtue.

Inhabitants (Free Flaw): -1 Safety, -1 Aesthetics; +1 appropriate specialization; this might be the Crones.

Scott

MT might be 8, but Size also caps your virtues without spending seasons for Refinement. Other than that, you've included all the options I planned to add, though you haven't unearthed all the secrets of the regio yet, so there are some specialization choices that would be options once you learned those.

This is after Viola has spent a number of seasons installing the various virtues, rather than immediate? Also, as amul's already noted, refinement doesn't come automatically - you need to spend a season per point of refinement (which can double up with removing an unwanted virtue or flaw). In addition, you need to have worked in a lab for a number of years equal to the current refinement score before you can refine it further.

I think the standardly gifted, obviously fae, Viola would probably find it challenging to recruit one of the locals to come and work in her lab in the faerie regio. There's potentially also a language barrier issue

Thinking about it, let's try and dump the Uneven Floor. Gregorius will spont the following spell (before Portia casts her ritual):

ReTe 10 (Base: 2 (work or form dirt, Covenants pg 51) +1 affect stone + 1 part + 1 touch + 1 size)), to level the floor.

His casting total is (Re 7 + Te 7 + Sta 1 + Aura 5 + die 20 (invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3102513/) /2 = 20. Goes off with two levels to spare (which he'll use to increase the size if necessary, but I don't think it should be).

Finesse roll is: (Finesse 7 + Per 3 + die 6 (Finesse roll for smoothing cave floor (1d10=1, 1d10=3)) = 16 vs a ease factor of magic 3 (magic) + month's work 3 (this seems a reasonable timescale) + craft ease factor. So it's a average quality smoothed floor, which should be enough to not have the flaw.

New lab stats are:

Characteristics
Size: +4
Occupied size: +1
Refinement: 0
Safety: +2 -1 (for occupied size) = +1
General Quality: +2
Aesthetics: -2
Health: -2
Upkeep: 0?
Warping: 0
Terram: +1
Items: +2 -1
Vis Extraction: +2 -1

Virtues
Spacious, mStr. +2 Safety, +1 Aesthetics.
Flawless Equipment, FSu, from Portia's spell. Gregorius is not intending to maintain this rigorously; however, he is also not intending to use the laboratory very often, so hopefully breakages will be slow. +2 GQ, +0? upkeep, +2 vis extraction.
Flawless Tools, FSu as above. +2 Items, +0? Upkeep.
Familiar, mSu. Alcimus isn't actually a familiar yet, and spends minimal time in the lab, but he does need the space left for him. No bonus yet.
Magic Item, FSu, curtain of flame. +1 Aesthetics.
Magic item, FSu. The hypocaust. No impact yet, as Gregorius hasn't got it working.

Flaws
Empty, FStr. It's a big cave. -1 Aesthetics, -1 Health.
Subterranean, FStr. It's a cave. +1 Upkeep, -1 Health, -1 Aesthetics, +1 Terram.
Missing Sanctum Marker, FO. The lab isn't actually Gregorius' sanctum at all - that's his room in the main building. -1 Aesthetics.
Undecorated, mO. Gregorius, spending little time in the lab and in any case viewing it as a temporary set-up only, has not spent much time personalising it. -1 Aesthetics, -1 Upkeep, subtract 1 pt from any speciality with a score of 2 or more.

Draft stats for Aison, the shield grog Gregorius used to visit the village:

Aison

Aison is one of the grogs donated to the covenant by a covenant in the Theban tribunal. He often serves as a shield grog to the magi.

Characteristics: Int -2, Per -2, Pre 0, Com -1, Str +1, Sta +4, Dex +1, Qik 3
Size: 0
Age: 30
Decreptitude: 0
Warping Score: 0 (2)
Confidence: 0 (0)

Virtues:
Covenfolk (mSS 0)
Warrior (mG 1)
Great Stamina (mG)
Tough (mG)

Flaws:
Poor student (mG)
Temperate (mP)
Poor hearing (mG0

Personality Traits: Brave +2, Loyal +0, Curious -2, Solid +1

Combat:

Dodging: Init +0, Attack n/a, Defense +3, Damage n/a
Shortsword and heater shield: Init: 4, Attack: 13, Defense: 14, Damage: 15
Shortbow: Init: 2, Attack: 7, Defense: 4, Damage: 0
Soak (unarmoured): 7
Soak (full metal scale): 14
Fatigue Levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconcious.
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20)

Abilities:
Native language: medieval greek (): 5 0
Use single weapon (heater shield): 9 225
Charm (): 1 5
Awareness (threats): 2 15
Folk Ken (soldiers): 1 5
Area lore: birthplace (people) 1 5
Brawl (dodge): 3 30
Survival (mountains): 2 15
Stealth (hide): 1 5
Ride (in battle): 3 30
Athletics (running): 3 30
Hunt (tracking): 3 30
Animal Handling (horses): 1 5
Leadership (in battle): 2 15
Carouse (games of chance) 1 5
Use bow (shortbow): 4 50

Equipment: Heater shield, short sword, full metal scale armour, shortbow.
Encumbrance: 4 (3 without one of shield or bow).

Yes, I know the rules. :slight_smile: Have a look here for an example of building a lab over time:

spellswiki.wikidot.com/magic-items (Scroll down to "Viola's Lab".)

Some things are inherent in the lab space itself, but they tend to be Free Virtues. There's also sometimes the possibility of converting a Flaw (like Infested or Inhabitants) into a Virtue (like Focus or Horde).

Perhaps, but it can probably be done with some effort. And Arslan owes her a favor now.

Scott

Okay - it wasn't entirely clear that you hadn't missed some of them (I hadn't realised about requirement to spend years in the lab to be able to increase refinement until I reread the relevant section, so you having also missed it didn't seem unlikely). What's her initial lab going to look like, or are you waiting on completion of the thread?

Oh, the lab rules are my favorite part of Covenants--I just love customizing and designing things. :slight_smile: Anyway, yes, I'm waiting for the end of the story to see what the lab looks like exactly.

Scott

Draft stats for a servant (housemaid):

Sophia is an an experienced maid, if never the quickest about her duties. Whilst she has never received any sort of formal education, over the years, she has built up a considerable collection of knowledge on a wide variety of subjects, especially those relating to the myths, legends and creatures of her homeland. Her age is difficult to estimate, but looks to be in her mid thirties; anyone who had known her from her previous covenant, however, would have been able to tell you that she has to be considerably older than that.

A skinchanger with the unusual variant of a tortoise, over the years she has increasingly taken on many of the characteristics of her animal.

Characteristics: Int 3, Per -1, Pre 1, Com 1, Str +2, Sta +3, Dex -2, Qik -4
Size: 0
Age: 53 (apprent age mid 30's)
Decreptitude: 2 (3) (apparent decreptitude 0).
Warping Score: 0 (4)
Confidence: 0 (0)

Virtues:
Covenfolk (mSS 0)
Skinchanger (mSu)
Unaging (mSu)
Arcane Law (mG)

Flaws:
Poor eyesight (mG)
Poor quickness (mG)
Covenant Upbringing (mP)

Personality Traits: Brave -2, Loyal +0, Curious +3, Tortoise +3

Combat:
Dodging: Init -4, Attack n/a, Defense -2, Damage n/a
Punch: Init -4, Attack +1, Defense -1, Damage +3
Soak (unarmoured): 3
Fatigue Levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconcious.
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20)

Abilities:
Brawl (punch): 2 15
Living Language: Greek (long words): 5 0
Folk Ken (recognising threats): 4 50
Charm (elicting stories): 2 15
Carouse (telling stories): 5 75
Music (sing): 1 5
Profession: Steward (housekeeping): 5 75
Stealth (camouflage): 1 5
Awareness (hearing): 2 15
Area Lore: Original Covenant (history): 2 15
Craft: Wool (clothes): 3 30
Craft: Linen (clothes): 3 30
Concentration (extended period of time): 5 75
Area Lore: Greece (history and legends): 4 50
Order of Hermes lore (Old covenant): 3 30
Magic Lore (Greece): 6 105
Faerie Lore (Greece): 6 105
Dominion Lore (Greece): 4 50
Infernal Lore (Greece): 2 15
Latin (covenant usage): 4 50
Intrigue (covenfolk): 1 5

Equipment: Small tortoise shell.
Encumbrance: 0

Tortoise form
Hermann's Tortoise (Testudo hermanni)

Basic Characteristics (mental characteristics prescribed, physical characteristics based on 7 points (minimum characteristic size (=-3) -5 =-8), then -6 strength + 3 quickness for -3 size adjustment):
Cu 0 Per 0 Pre -2 Com -5 Str -5 Sta +9 Dex -2 Qik -5

Modified Characteristics (by qualities)
Cu 0 Per 0 Pre -3 Com -5 Str -5 Sta +9 Dex -2 Qik -5

Sophia's characteristics in tortoise form: Int: +3 Per -1 Pre -2 Com -4 Str -3 Sta +9 Dex -2 Qik -5

Virtues and flaws: Enduring constitution, Long winded, Tough, Poor Eyesight, Noncombatant, Reclusive.

Qualities: Camouflage, Hardy, Shell, Timid.

Personality Traits: Curious +3, Brave -3

Soak: +16 (or +13 if the bonus from Tough doesn't stack with Shell.)
Fatigue: Ok, 0, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-2), -3 (3-4), -5 (5-6), Incapacitated (7-8), Dead (9+)

Abilities: Brawl (dodge) 3, Survival (mountains) 5, Awareness (predators) 4, Athletics (running) 3, Stealth 4 (hiding)
Special: +3 to all rolls to hide when not moving. -3 to all rolls involving fast or nimble movement. No natural weapons.

I like her!

A few suggestions:

  • You need to pick her original covenant, for her Area Lore, and her storytelling. I suggest one of the published locations.

  • Given my own feel for the character you've created, I'd merge swap Craft:Wool(clothes) and Craft:Linen(clothes) for Craft:Clothier(mending), and some skill that hints at a long and unusual life -- Great Weapon (staff), perhaps? An unusual lore skill which she learned from some long ago lover? Something like that.

  • In my saga, you would have to pay points for her as a specialist, given her Lore and Steward skills. Dunno how things work here.

I've been rereading through TSE, but not come to any very firm conclusions (although there's a handful she's definitely not from). Will keep thinking about it. I do have a vague idea for a grog from Hedyosmos kicking around in my head, but that's definitely a different character. I'm considering Epidauros, although I'd want to tweak her slightly if I went for that option (and I'd also been vaguely assuming that was were Petrus was from).

The craft swap would work. Great weapon she can't have without an appropriate virtue. I'll restat probably this weekend.

Steward I'd argue against meaning she counted as a specialist for. I went through the Covenants grogs trying to work out what was the appropriate ability for general "maid" skills, and based on the Spying Maid and Spouse with a Secret templates it looks as though it is Profession: Steward. I don't think every housemaid should count as a specialist. The Lore skills are more iffy; however, I'd note that technically, the fact that she's got a full character sheet means she inherently doesn't cost build points - as previously alluded to by MTKnife, pg 72 of the main book states:

"Specialists are non-magus NPC members of the covenant with useful skills. They are defined only by the abilities they use to serve the covenant, rather than a full character sheet...Characters created as grogs or companions need not be paid for with build points."

Of course, that has a fair amount of scope for abuse, so MTKnife may well want to stick some limits/keep an eye on it.

I think she'd count as a servant, actually (if not, I'm not sure what a "servant" is), though that doesn't imply that she lacks other useful skills.

I had the same first reaction that you did, but I think the potential for abuse is intentional: it's to encourage the players to flesh out the covenantfolk.

Scott