Character Development

Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Base Camp
61

Statting Alcimus

I'm going to do this step by step, as I'm not at all sure I'm doing it right. I see what people meant on the main forum when they were commenting that it's confusing.

Step 1:
Character concept: magical wolf. I think I can just decide whether it's intelligent or cunning, so I choose intelligent.

Virtues and Flaws:
According to HoH:MC and the Book of Mundane Beasts, standard virtues and flaws for a wolf are:
Ferocity (against livestock), Improved Characteristics x2, Long-winded, Compulsions (killing), Infamous.
The BoMB recommends that player characters' animal companions drop Compulsion (killing), and substitute another personality flaw in its place. I think I'll do that with Alcimus, and add Pride (minor). I'll drop Ferocity, as it's only for non-intelligent characters.

Standard (non-magical) qualities for wolves: Aggressive, Hardy, Keen sense of smell, Pack Animal/Pack Leader, Pursuit Predator, Sharp Ears, Thick Fur, Vocal.

I think I get all of those free, without having to balance them.

A wolf is a clawed beast, so its base abilities are:

Cun: 0, Per: 0, Pre: -2, Comm -5
Sta: 0, Str: 0 (-2 for standard wolf size of -1), Qik: 0 (+1 for standard -1 size), Dex: 0, + 7 chararcteristic points to spend on physical attributes only.

With 7xp standard spend, goes to:

Cun: 0, Per: 0, Pre: -2, Comm: -5
Sta: 2, Str: 2-2 = 0, Qik: 1+1 =2 Dex: 0

With two lots of improved characteristics, goes to:

Cun: 0, Per: 1, pre: -2, Comm: -5
Sta: 2, Str: 2, Qik: 2, Dex: +2

Brawl 3 (bite or claw), Survival 3 (home terrain), Awareness 3 (food), Athletics 3 (running).

This is 120 xp, the maximum for a spring character. Once I add in the effects from the qualities, its abilities are:

Brawl 5 (bite), Survival 5 (home terrain), Hunt 4 (prey), Leadership 5 (wolves), Music 3 (howl), Awareness 3 (food), Athletics 3 (running).

This is 365xp, slightly more than the standard summer character xp (360).

Its characteristics also change: Aggressive: +1 cunning, Keen Sense of Smell: +1 Perception, Pack leader: +1 communication, Sharp Ears: +1 Perception, Vocal: Raises Comm to 0

Cun: 1, Per: 3, pre: -2, Comm: 1
Sta: 2, Str: 2, Qik: 2, Dex: +2

In addition, it gets +1 fatigue level from Hardy, +1 fatigue level from Pursuit Predator, +3 to all rolls involving hearing, +3 to all rolls involving sense of smell, +2 to all hunting rolls, 1 extra protection

Going back to RoP:M, I see that I therefore have to spend my experience points to get the basic abilities of a wolf in order to get a magical wolf, and then can spend any extra points on other abilities. This is a problem, as it implies any magical wolf has to be a summer character by default, and any magical wolf pack leader has to be an autumn chararcter (this second bit is admittedly not implausible, but I'm less convinced about the first). I decide that Alcimus was only a pack-leader for a short time, and did not develop a full leadership score. I'll thus modify him to have:

Brawl 5 (bite), Survival 5 (home terrain), Hunt 4 (prey), Leadership 3 (wolves), Music 3 (howl), Awareness 3 (food), Athletics 3 (running), Latin 3(Hermetic terms), Swim 1(lakes), Folk Ken 1 (Tremere Magi).

This is 360xp exactly, and brings him closeish to the wolves in HoH: TL, although he can't as standard have an academic ability. I'll add an "educated" virtue (but don't have room for any of the extra 50 xp), to represent the tendency for Tremere Familiars to teach the rest of the pack how to understand Latin.

Magic Might
This is a medium power saga (I think?), and a companion level character (?). That gives a base magic might of 10, and therefore 10 points of magical qualities. I then have to subtract his size from his magic might, to give his revised magic might. Is that +1 or -1 if a wolf has base size -1, but Alcimus has size +1?...[Added later]: It's for the -1. So he has a revised magic might of 11.

Magical Qualities:
I think I should take Gigantic as Major Magical Quality, rather than as the Giant Blood virtue, as it's a result of him being one of the magical white wolves of tremere, rather than of wolves being inherently giant or him being an unusually large white wolf. I think. The relevant sentence is "During this step, you should also choose the character's Virtues and Flaws, which represent the natural advantages and disadvantages associated with its true form". I've also just noticed the sentence "The term Qualities is also used to describe the natural advantages that determine a mundane animal's characteristics...These "mundane Qualities" are not necessary for magic characters, and should not be listed on the character sheet to avoid confusion. However, they are especially useful for determining the required scores of a magic animal character".

What I take from that is that pretty much all of the above isn't actually part of Alcimus, just a set of minimums which I now have to make him comply with using Magical Qualities and xp. And I need to completely ignore the characteristics I worked out earlier, and just recalc based on a base 0 for all stats and his virtues and qualities.

So:
Major Magical Qualities:
Gigantic 3
Major Virtue (Ways of the Forests) 3

Minor Magical Qualities
Improved fatigue x 2 2
Lesser Power x2 2
Improved Powers 1
Improved Soak 1
Improved Initiative 1
Gift of Speech 1
Minor Magical Virtue: Unaffected by the Gift 1
Minor Magical Virtue: Improved Characteristics. 1

Major Magical Inferiorities:
Monstrous Appearence 3
Magical Magical Flaw: Age quickly. (RoP:M pg 47: "If this flaw is taken by a character with a Magic Might Score, the character is not immune to aging like other magic characters, but only has to roll for aging once a year. For these characters, this aging cannot be halted with a longevity ritual as it is already slowed by their magical natures." 3

Minor Magical Qualities:
Reduced Might. 1

Lesser Powers:
Theft of Voice: PeMe Base 4 (diminish a single mental capacity: ability to speak) +1 (eye contact) +2 (sun) = 20. 5 levels spare for 1 mastery point. [Imaginem would have been a more natural and effective form to do this in, but I wanted to keep the Mentem nature of the wolf's powers].
Eyes like Lanterns: CrMe Base 4 (Put an emotion into another's mind) +1 (eye contact) +2 (sum) =20. 5 levels spare for 1 mastery point.

Also have 5 mastery points from Improved Powers. Use 4 mastery points to reduce the activation cost of Theft of Voice to 0, and the cost of Eyes like Lanterns to 2.

Final characteristics are base 0 for all stats, plus 7 standard characteristic point, plus two lots of improved characteristics from being a wolf, 1 lot of improved characteristics for being a magical wolf, -2 str, +1 Qik for a wolf being size -1 by default, +4 Str -2 Qik for being a gigantic wolf. In about that order.

Before size adjustments: 16 characteristic points to distribute:

Int +1, Per +3, Pres: 0, Comm: 0
Str: 0, Sta: +2, Dex: +2, Qik: +2

With size adjustments:
Int: +1, Per: +3, Pres: 0, Comm: 0
Str: 2, Sta: +2, Dex: +2, Qik: +1

Final character-sheet

Magic Might 10 (animal)
Characteristics: Int: +1, Per: +3, Pres: 0, Comm: 0 Str: 2, Sta: +2, Dex: +2, Qik: +1
Size: 1
Age: 7
Decreptitude: 0
Virtues and Flaws: Magic Animal, Improved Characteristics x2, Long-winded, Sharp ears, Keen sense of smell, Pack leader, Educated, Difficult Underlings [Assuming he takes over local wolf pack], Magical Friend, Pride (minor), hatred (Ferox), Infamous.
Magical Qualities and Inferiorities: Gigantic, Major Virtue (Ways of the Forests), Improved fatigue x 2, Lesser Power x2, Improved Powers, Improved Soak, Improved Initiative, Gift of Speech, Minor Magical Virtue (Unaffected by the Gift), Minor Magical Virtue (Improved Characteristics), Monstrous Appearence, Major Magical Flaw (Age quickly)
Personality Traits: Wolf +3, Loyal +2, Amused by Humans +1
Reputations: Monstrous wolves 4.
Combat:
Bite: Init + 10, Attack +11, Defense +8, Damage +9
Soak: +4
Fatigue: 0, -1/-1, -3/-3, -5, Unconcious
Wound Penalties -1 (1-6), -3 (7-12), -5 (13-18), Incapacitated (19-24)
Abilities: Brawl 5 (bite), Survival 5 (Apuseni), Hunt 4 (prey), Leadership 3 (wolves), Music 3 (howl), Awareness 3 (food), Athletics 3 (running), Latin 3 (Hermetic terms), Swim 1 (lakes), Folk Ken 1 (Tremere Magi)

Powers:
Theft of Voice, 0 point, Init -7, Mentem: the wolf can steal the voice of any human with whom it makes eye contact. The effect lasts until the next sunrise or sunset.
Eyes like lanterns, 2 points, Init -7, Mentem: the wolf can paralyse a victim with terror. This requires the wolf to make eye contact, and the victim to fail a brave check with an ease factor of 9+. A victim who makes eye contact with several wolves may need to make several checks. The victim may make a new check each round if attacked, with an ease factor of 6+. Slapping or shaking the victim also allows a check, against an ease factor of 6+.

Equipment: None
Encumbrance: 0 (0)
Vis: 2 pawns Animal, tail
Appearence: large wolf, white in colour, that looks amused.

Sorry for the rambling.

What I take from this is the following:
[]120xp is never going to be enough xp for a fully statted familiar - even a basic wolf has considerably more xp than this. I recommend making the default a summer character instead.
[]Creating magical creatures is indeed complicated. I've almost certainly got it wrong in several places. However, the way to do animals seems to be: a) Work out what abilities a mundane version would have, and buy these with your xp, then add extra abilities such as magic theory with your remaining xp. b) Work out what the magic might of the character should be, based on the base animal's size. c) Take the virtues and flaws that the mundane animal would have, and the ones that are specific to that particular individual. Take as magical virtues/flaws the virtues and flaws it has because it's a magical version of the animal. The former can mostly be got from the template for the mundane beast. d) Work out what mundane qualities the beast has, and try and roughly replicate them with magical qualities. Don't worry too much about getting it exact, since it won't always be possible. e) Buy other qualities, including powers. f) Work out what characteristics the beast should have, based on your choice of Int/Cun, and base levels of 0 for all stats. Apply adjustments for size last.

Under Scott's proposed familiar restrictions, this counts as Companion Level, Summer Character, Human Int, Positive Int, Independant, Large, Monstrous Appearance, which is 2 points over the maximum if we don't upgrade to Summer Character as default (and 1 point under if we do).

Comments, corrections?

Anyone want to play him (feel free to tweak his stats, if so)? If not, I'll drop the Independant trait, which should make him balance (if we change the default to Summer Character).

62

Don't you get a free xp package from HoH:Mc?

63

Given that they're of different experience levels, would Portia have any interest in acting as a mentor to him?

Scott

64

Either works for me. I understand that we don't want to use a standard format for everyone?

65

That would have been me. :slight_smile: One quirk to be aware of with Magic Animals: the first page of that chapter implies that animals other than Transformed Animals are Beasts of Virtue, but the Magical Cats don't seem to be, so I guess you can go either way. It appears you're making him a Wolf of Virtue, which is fine, though remember to keep track of his Essential Traits (is Ferocity his Essential Virtue?).

The (mundane) Qualities of the species you get for free. The Virtues and Flaws, though required for the species or for a Beast of Virtue, are paid for as normal (if you check the examples in the book, you'll see this is true, though they usually omit the Essential Virtue from the Virtues list if it's a Personality Trait).

I haven't added those up myself, but if a mundane animal Quality adds a bonus for something (Sharp Ears, for instance), that's just a free bonus--it doesn't add to the Ability score. Some Qualities though do specify minimum Ability scores, if that's what you're referring to.

Hah! You have failed your Munchkin Fu roll!

OK, if you look at the examples in the book, most of the animals in there have the Minor Magic Quality Improved Abilitiies--that's 50 XP's for one Quality point (in fact, the main Characters chapter notes that most magic characters will have to take this Quality, though it doesn't mention it by name). The lack of a full Leadership score I can see, but for the most part you should have the minimum Abilities listed for the species.

As for Latin, if that's the only reaosn you're going for Educated, just take the Covenant Upbringing Flaw, and you're good. For the record, though, keep in mind that you can always use a Major or Minor Quality to purchase a Major or Minor General or Supernatural Virtue (and you can get Flaws in a similar way).

If, after all of the above, you're having to spend half your Qualities on XP's, I agree we should revisit whether the default is Spring or Summer, esp. since taking multiple instances of Improved Abilities won't work for a grog-level familiar.

Correct.

Gigantic is kind of a puzzler: it's not really clear why, say, a Size 0 cat, though bigger than a Size -3 cat, really has an advantage over an animal from a species whose members are all Size 0. I mean, I'm sure being bigger impresses the (animal) ladies and all, and for that matter probably impresses all members of the species, and members of other species that species interacts with (like prey), but it hardly seems worth a Major Quality. Having been over this before in another saga, my best guess is that the Quality in question is for game-mechanical purposes, to provide a way for an animal of normal size to become bigger in play.

In this case, Gigantic would take him from Size -1 to Size +1, which is an enormous difference. If you just want to make him a big wolf, take Giant Blood--the color text might not match, but the mechanical effect is right (and anyway, Giants are magic humans, so you're talking about a magical property either way).

The second page of the Magic Animals chapter explicitly states that you get all the bonuses from mundane Qualities, though yes, the book also notes elsewhere that they're not usually listed. I like to list them all, but the only ones that are really important to list are those that give bonuses, rather than add Abilities or improve combat stats.

Think of the template as your minimums--you can still build the character up to the stats you intended before.

For that matter, personally I think it should be OK for some animals to be a little weaker or slower than others of the species, and so it's not really important to meet all the species minimums on Characteristics, though I do think you should treat the Ability scores as minimums.

Double-check the power level calculations in the book, as well as the Might cost and Init--there are a few errors (though the Wolf isn't among the published errata).

Scott

66

I personally don't care, but I'm willing to use a standard format if that's what the troupe consensus is.

Scott

67

You mean the Ex Misc chapter of HoH: Societates? I can't find anything like that, but I could be missing it.

Scott

68

Hello all. Joining late.

This is a rough draft of a magi. I've been wrestling with this one, so comments are welcome.

Collusio

Characteristics: Int +2, Per +4, Pre -1, Com +1, Str 0, Sta +1, Dex 0, Qik 0
Size: 0
Age: 23 (23), Height: 5'6'', Weight: 150 lbs, Gender: Male
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0 (0)
Confidence: 1 (3)

Virtues and Flaws: The Gift, Hermetic Magus, The Enigma*, Premonitions, Affinity with Imaginem, Puissant Imaginem, Improved Characteristics, Sharp Ears (Hearing: +3), Great Perception, Visions, Driven (Find the One Armed Man), Nocturnal (All Rolls: -1 between dawn and midday), Deficient Form (Mentem)

Abilities: Enigmatic Wisdom 1, Slavic 5, Premonitions 1, Parma Magica 1, Magic Theory 3, Latin 4, Athletics 1 (running), Awareness 2 (alertness), Folk Ken 1 (peasants), Guile 2 (elaborate lies), Survival 1 (Mountains), Artes Liberales 2 (astronomy)

Arts: Cr 5, In 5, Mu 5, Pe 5, Re 5, An 0, Aq 0, Au 5, Co 5, He 0, Ig 0, Im 10+3, Me 0, Te 0, Vi 5

Spells Known:
Aura of Beguiling Appearance (MuIm 10) +19
Aura of Ennobled Presence (MuIm 10) +19
The Captive Voice (ReIm 25) +19
Discern the Images of Truth and Falsehood (InIm 15) +19
The Ear for Distant Voices (InIm 20) +19
Invisibility of the Standing Wizard (PeIm 15) +19
Prying Eyes (InIm 5) +19
Curse of the Unruly Tongue (ReCo 5) +11
Broom of the Winds (CrAu 15) +11

Collusio was captured by slavers at a young age. He was fortunate in that he was noticed in the slave markets by an agent of the Order. Purchased, he was taken to a Greek covenant. Because he exhibited a gift for visions, he was apprenticed to a Criamon. His master was constantly trying to bring on Collusio's visions, trying to determine how reliable they were. While his visions seemed mostly attuned to past events, Collusio had a recurring vision where he encounted a one armed man who granted him great insight into the Enigma. His master was lnly able to determine that the meeting would happen somewhere on the border of the Black Sea. After his gauntlet, Collusio dutifully travelled to the Black Sea region. His pater told him not to worry too much. The meeting would occur. Collusio's still not sure that's a good thing, but he won't know until the meeting actually occurs.

I'm tryign to think of something a little less cliche than "one armed man" by the by. Again, comments welcome.

69

I don't have a good substitute for the cliche yet, but the character looks fine, and certainly creates his own plot. Have you read the Criamon material in Mystery Cults? Since you're the first Criamon, you can decide if the saga is gonna use it of not, given how controversial it is.

Scott

70

Sorry for the delay in answering this post--it got lost in the shuffle, and then I got distracted.

In ArM5, a non-fatiguing spont has no die roll, and therefore can't fail--you can either cast it or you can't.

Presumably, there's no way in-game to know exactly what's going on when a spell is cast, especially since there are other things that could boost a spell, such as Life-linked Spontaneous Magic and Foci. I would suspect it's a bit suspicious, but many magi already suspect Merinitae of Diednist sympathies anyway. Given Viola's origin in the Stonehenge Tribunal, I think it's entirely possible that the Mystery Cult in question traces its roots back to, at the very least, some sort of Diedne influence. I've also been thinking about giving her Bone-biting as her preferred Certamen style (you can't really have it as your school, but I figured she could have familiarity with it in lieu of learning a specialized (that is, non-Gladiator) school.

Scott

71

But Diedne magic/ Innate Spontaneous Magic allows you to:

"cast a spontaneous spell without expending fatigue, you may choose to divide by five or by two. If you choose to divide by five, you need not roll a stress die, and cannot botch, just as normal. If you choose to divide by two, you must roll a stress die, and can botch. "

So in this case there is the possibility of failing a non-fatiguing spont, if you choose the second option.

72

There is an eagle sketched (not finished in HoH:MC, Bjornaer), but it is rather weird (immunity to blindness for example), so I tried my own.

Are Eagles aggressive?

Golden Eagle (Aquila Chrysaetos Chrysaetos)

Basic Characteristics:
Cu -1 Per +2 Pre -1 Com -2 Str -2 Sta +2 Dex +1 Qik +4

Modified Characteristics (by qualities)
Cu -10 Per +3 Pre 0 Com -1 Str -2 Sta +2 Dex +1 Qik +4

Virtues and flaws: proud, piercing gaze

Qualities: Accomplished Flyer, Extra Natural Weapons (claws = talons), Imposing Appearance, Keen Eyesight, Pack/Herd Leader, Pursuit Predator

Personality Traits: Proud +3, Brave +3

Attacks:
Talons: Init 3, Attack +6, Defense +10, Damage +0
Beak: Init 4, Attack +6, Defense +7, Damage -1
Soak: +2
Fatigue: Ok, 0, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-3), -3 (4-6), -5 (5-9), Incapacitated (10-12), Dead (13+)
Abilities: Brawl (Talons) 2, Survival (mountains) 3, Awareness (food) 4, Athletics (flying) 5, Leadership (birds) 5, Hunt (prey) 4
Special: +3 to all rolls involving eyesight

73

I've always felt that a magus apprneticed in a covenant outside of his native land should pick up at least some basic language based on what the covenfolk speak, if only through exposure. Some basic Language: Greek would make sense.

Could be a non-physical attribute, such as a man with seven dogs (or another animal) lying at his feet. Or a blind man?

Six-fingered man? :wink:

74

What's the actual difference between a wolf of virtue and another magical wolf, stats wise? The only thing I can see is that Beast of Virtue have to have an essential virtue (e.g Loyal would be a possibility in this case), which I haven't taken. I think I want a non-virtuous wolf, as pg 55 of RoP:M states that beasts of virtue are very rare, whilst the white wolves live in packs around House covenants, and their development has clearly been influenced by the House.

Aggressive, for example, states that you "Add 1 to cunning; grants Brawl 5 (natural weapons)." I'd interpretted that as a flat increase to the cunning statistic. That leads to two questions: firstly, does an increase to cunning also apply to intelligence, and secondly, does my magical wolf still get the same characteristic increase? My understanding is that the increase in Brawl to 5 means that it has to buy Brawl to 5 using the xp it gets as starting experience as a magical creature, rather than that the increase to Brawl is in any way free.

When you're setting your familiar-traits scheme, were you meaning the xp limit to apply to total xp of the character, including extra xp from Improved Abilities, or only to the starting experience? I was assuming it was the former, so was deliberately avoiding acquiring any xp over a basic summer character.

If it is the latter, though, a basic non-pack-leader wolf requires 290xp. Spring characters have 120 xp as a base, and the Improved Abilities add 50xp, so I'd need to take Improved Abilities 4 times to get the necessary xp, out of 10 points of qualities. If I allow for the Leadership, that goes up to 5 Improved Qualities.

Covenant Upbringing over Educated is a good point. I'll change that.

A gigantic size 0 cat doesn't have an advantage over an animal that's standardly size 0, does it? Gigantic gives a +6 strength bonus and a -3 quickness decrease, but all these do is offset the -6 strength decrease and +3 quickness increase that the gigantic cat got from being at base a cat whose natural size is -3. I suppose there's a slight Might score difference, as the gigantic cat will have a base might of 13, whilst the animal whose base is 0 will only have a might score of 10, but I don't think that's what you mean?

Giant Blood and Gigantic both give the same size increase of +2 (extrapolating from the fact that Giant Blood takes a size 0 human to size +2, and for this point on the Gigantic scale). The difference is in the stat adjustments; Giant Blood gives +1 Str, +1 Sta whilst Gigantic gives +4 str, -2 Qik. I was aiming for a +1 wolf, as that's the size described in True Lineages.

Okay, I'll list them in the revised version of the wolf. I'll wait until I think I know where I am with the other questions, though, before statting him up again.

Okay, I'll look at increasing his Int, Sta and Qik up to standard wolf levels (assuming having a Cun +2 equates to needing Int: +2).

I've tried to stat these up myself using the standard guidelines to achieve the same effect as in HoH:TL. The Init and Activation costs are different in TL.

75

Some of your abilities still need specialities. I'd also be inclined to not bother taking Prying Eyes as a formulaic, and just spont it as necessary, unless you're planning to be casting it a lot silently and/or in hostile auras. I agree with Arthur that at least a bit of greek would be likely (and if we do decide a covenant on the shores of the Black Sea, might well be useful as well).

76

Just checking in to let you guys know-- given the overlap with Arthur's Verditius and that the familiar rules seem to strongly discourage choosing a familiar for its potential as a lab assistant, I'm scrapping the lab rat Verditius and will be doing something completely different. Maybe a batty Merinita or a Mercere Mutantis. Work has been fairly crazy lately (I've found a new job which will require me to relocate, and in the interim I'm having to train my replacement 7hrs a day AND still handle my regular workload on top of that-- I'm good, but no one is as good as they expect me to be) so I'll get to it when things settle down in a couple weeks.

77

Sorry to hear that. I've been working on minimizing any overlap between the character concepts -- I am going for an Ex Misc instead of Verditius, and downtoning the smithing part.

Good luck on the new job!

78

Viola's familiar is quite certainly designed to be a lab assistant. Even without taking Negatives, you can take Int 0, for free, and with some training such a familiar can add 6 or 7 point to your Lab Total.

Scott

79

Have we decided how we're treating magical animal advancement?

80

Well I'm sure by the time things settle down at work you'll be done with your Ex Misc so I'll figure things out then. :slight_smile: