No--we only got one comment on it. I'm not sure if the Susceptibility to Deprivation thing works, since familiars don't necessarily start out that way, but it's an interesting idea. I think in any case we need something that lets any familiar advance. We could consider making it harder to advance for those with higher Might, but hopefully the guidelines I've suggested already deal with that issue.
Scott
Ah, OK. Well I assume then that if you fail the rail, what usually happens with a spont happens: the spell fails. I don't see why that failure would inflict Fatigue.
Scott
That might make sense, though it would depend on how his parens treated and trained him.
Scott
Unless someone complains, I assume my primary character is done (if we don't get a glass Verditius after all, I'll have to change the lab, but I was careful not to rely on superior equiment.
You wanted second characters:
My ideas (order of preference):
Second draft of Gregorius. I've added in a small amount of Profession: Soldier and Weapon skills, decreased his Awareness slightly to compensate, swapped out Ring of Warding Against Spirits for a new spell, Ward Against Metal, and shifted some xp from Arts to Spell mastery. I've also made a reasonable amount up about Tremere apprenticeship and the acquisition of a hermetic virtue; let me know if people object/don't think it's plausible.
Gregorius filius Slyvanus doctrinae Tremendi
Gregorius, born Dorin, was born and raised in the Translyvanian Tribunal. Gently Gifted, he was over eleven by the time his power was recognised, and then there was a further delay until a magus who could preserve his already blossoming Second Sight and Premonitions was able to open his gift. This magus, Slyvanus filius Aristaeus, was an experienced trainer of apprentices, and a master of Intellego, Rego, Mentem and Vim. He took on Gregorius straight from the gauntlet of his previous student, and had had three previous to that. He was a kindly if stern pater, an excellent teacher. Recognising the value of Gregorius' Second Sight, and apparently supernatural sense of impending threats, he focussed his training towards service as a scout and sentry, including having him spend 3 months learning his first sun duration spell from a Nyktophylax, in the hope that he'd pick up the shifted durations.
Gregorius' apprenticeship was at the covenant of Apuseni, a Tremere House covenant specialising in the raising of apprentices. Over the period of Gregorius' training, 7 other apprentices were trained there, taught to be fiercely loyal to each other and the house. One of these was Carolus, 3 years further through his apprenticeship but a similar age. Carolus and Gregorius were staunch friends, and both spent a lot of their free time with the local pack of white wolves that served the covenant, assisting them with their packlands. Half-way through his apprenticeship, a litter was born to the alpha female of the pack, and both apprentices "adopted" a pup from the litter; Gregorius Alcimus and Carolus Ferox. The pups grew as the magi matured, but became rivals rather than friends as their mentors were. 2 years before Gregorius' guantlet, the previous leader of the pack (the familiar of one of the covenant magi, and the two wolves' father) died. Alcimus won leadership of the pack in a closely fought battle, and Ferox deferred to him. 2 1/2 years after his guantlet Carolus, specialised in Rego and Muto Animal, and intending to serve the house in investigating the potential of new magical animals as resources, bound Ferox as his familiar, and began to enchant the familiar bond. Alcimus' leadership of the pack did not last long thereafter, and he took it badly. Gregorius promised him that when he was a mage, he too would take his friend as a familiar, although warned him that it might take several years for him to be capable of forging a bond to such a magnificent creature.
Gregorius passed his guantlet early in the winter of 1219 in a certamen contest with his pater before the assembled magi and apprentices of the covenant, both fighting in the style of the Laquerius. Gregorius was never expected to win - his pater still held the sigils of all but his eldest apprentice - and he didn't, but he was considered to put up a credible show and passed the gauntlet. He then took up his new name, and prepared to travel to the newly founded covenant of Nova Castra, to put his training as a scout to use on the fringes of the Order.
Concept: a junior Tremere scout, idealistic and loyal to both his House and the Order as a whole.
Characteristics: Int +1, Per +3, Pre -1, Com 0, Str +1, Sta +1, Dex -1 Qik 0
Size: 0
Age: 27, 0 years post-gauntlet.
Decreptitude: 0
Warping Score: 0
Confidence: 1(3)
Virtues:
The Gift (F)
Social Status: Magus (F)
Minor Magical Focus: Certamen (F)
The Gentle Gift (MH 3)
Puissant Finesse (mH 1)
Affinity with Finesse (mH 1)
Second Sight (mS 1)
Premonitions (mS 1)
Enduring Constitution (mG 1)
Skilled Parens (mH 1)
Nyktophylax (mH 1, from HoH: TL. Magic of sun duration fails at noon and midnight)
Flaws:
Driven: Serve the Order (MP 3)
Waster of Vis (MH 3)
Weak Enchanter (mH 1)
Creative Block (mH 1)
Unimaginative Learner (mH)
Magical Animal Companion (mS 1)
Personality Traits: Idealistic +2, Curious +1, Dutiful +1
Brawl (dodge): Init 0, Attack N/A, Defense +2, Damage N/A
Brawl (fist): Init 0, Attack 0, Defense +1, Damage +1
Axe: Init: +2, Attack +5, Defense +2, Damage +9
Soak: +1 (unarmoured)
Soak: +5 (armoured)
Fatigue Levels: 0, 0, -2, -4, Unconscious
Wound Penalties (human shape): 0, -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20), Dead (21+) (But total penalty is reduced by 1 point)
Abilities:
Native Language (of Translyvania) (Banter): 5 75
Guile (Not getting caught) 1 5
Folk Ken (Magi) 2 15
Awareness (searching) 2 15
Survival (Transylvania) 2 15
Stealth (Natural areas) 2 15
Athletics (running) 2 15
Swim (Rivers) 1 5
Hunt (tracking) 1 5
Brawl (Dodging) 1 5
Single Weapon (Axe) 1 5
Profession: Soldier (Tremere forces) 1 5
Second Sight (Regiones) 3 30
Premonitions (Allies) 3 30
Magic Lore (Creatures) 2 15
Order of Hermes Lore (Tremere) 1 5
Code of Hermes (Mundane relations) 1 5
Finesse (Aiming) 5+2 50->75 due to Affinity
Artes Liberales (Ceremonial Magic) 1 5
Latin (Hermetic Usage) 4 50
Magic Theory (Inventing Spells) 3 30
Parma Magic 1 (Corpus)
Mastery of Posing the Silent Question 1 (5)
Mastery of Ward Against Metal 1 (5)
Arts:
Cr: 0 In: 6 Mu: 0 Pe: 0 Re: 7
An: 1 Aq: 0 Au: 0 Co: 3 He: 0 Ig: 0 Im: 0 Me: 6 Te: 7 Vi: 5
Equipment:
Suit of metal re-inforced leather armour and axe; bag of small mundane stones hanging from his belt.
Wears a blue-black Tremere robe to formal occasions, or practical but good quality travelling clothes the rest of the time. His bag of stones is always with him, but he only wears the axe and armour when he's expecting trouble.
Encumbrance: 2 (armed and armoured) or 0.
Spells known:
Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie (InMe 20) +13
Posing the Silent Question (InMe 20) +14. Mastered for Quiet Casting
Call to Slumber (ReMe 10) +14
Aura of Rightful Authority (ReMe 20) +14
Ward Against Metal (ReTe 20) +16 (Custom spell, based on Ward against Wood. Base 5, +2 metal, +1 diameter). Mastered for Fast Casting
Ominous Levitation of the Weighty Stone (ReTe 15) +15 (From pg 38 of HoH: Societates. Lifts a stone at voice range for concentration duration, then drops it with an aiming roll)
Sling of Vilano (modified to do +15 damage) (ReTe 20: Base 15, +1 Touch) +15 (From pg 38 of HoH: Societates. Throw a stone so that it bypasses Parma but requires an aiming roll. Requires stone to be at touch range.)
Bitter Taste of Betrayal (InVi 15) +11 (from HoH: True Lineages pg 75. Creates a bitter taste in your mouth if you come under any magical effect, but provides no further information. Sun duration.)
Comfort of the Weary Travellor (ReIg 10) +7
Appearance: Gregorius is a lean man, of medium height and slightly weathered in appearence. He has dark brown hair, and sharp, dark eyes with a watchful look.
New Spells:
Ward Against Metal
ReTe 20
Based on Ward Against Wood (pg 139). The caster is protected from non-enchanted wood, so that none of it can actually contact his body.
(base 5, +2 metal, +1 diameter duration).
Comfort of the Weary Travellor
ReIg 10
Keeps the magus' body at a comfortable temperature unless exposed to souces of heat/cold doing more than +5 damage.
(Base 4 - extrapolated control heat in a slightly unnatural fashion from control fire in a slightly unnatural fashion, +2 sun)
Salutor, I like your character
Big stones he throws - does he carry them around?
The book never actually describes that difference, and actually implies in one place that there's no such thing as a magic animal that's not a Beast of Virtue. As far as I can tell, though, your answer is correct, though I would add one more difference, which is that all the Virtues, Flaws, Qualities, and Inferiorities of a Beast of Virtue should in some way epitomize the species, while no such restriction would apply to a non-virtuous animal.
Think of the Qualities as the way in which you build a mundane beast from scratch, from a "default animal". All the +1 to Cunning means is that this animal has Cunning +1 instead of Cunning 0--it's more a description than a bonus, and if you were buying Characteristics with points, you'd still have to pay for it. In the case of Cunning, it doesn't really even matter, because once you go from Cunning to Int, there's no real comparison: even Int -3 is smarter than Cunning +3.
If he were immediately going to be a familiar, I'd leave it at that. If you want him to have Int from the beginning, just buy all your Characteristics normally. If you want him to start with Cunning, and get Int (Int -3) after the familiar bond, it would probably be best to use the system suggested in the book, where you take the species defaults for the four mental Characteristics, and use Characteristics points only on the physical Characteristics (it would be unfair to require you to buy Cunning if the Cunning weren't going to benefit him after bonding).
If it is the latter, though, a basic non-pack-leader wolf requires 290xp. Spring characters have 120 xp as a base, and the Improved Abilities add 50xp, so I'd need to take Improved Abilities 4 times to get the necessary xp, out of 10 points of qualities. If I allow for the Leadership, that goes up to 5 Improved Qualities.
[/quote]
No, the XP numbers for Spring, Summer, etc. characters are their free XP's they get. Many characters in the book do have Improved Abilities, but if you total them up, you'll notice the extra 360 (or whatever) are still in there.
You are right though that Spring may be too few XP's for typical animals. The only familiar I've made personally was a butterfly, and the butterfly skill set isn't very extensive....
Ah, I thought that Giant Blood was a +1 to Size. If all you want is for him to be a big wolf, just increase his Size and don't worry about a Virtue or Quality--maybe just give him a higher than average Presence to reflect how imposing he is.
Remember, he just has to be smarter than the average wolf, which has Cunning, and even that probably isn't necessary, since being leader of the pack is more about being tough. The only real reason to give him higher Int than +3 is if you think it'll make him a more interesting character, or, down the road, to have him help in the lab.
OK
Scott
Yeah, it says he has a bag of stones as equipment.
Scott
You'll need to take time to familiarize yourself with the lab and Refine it; I don't think any of the Virtues required installing, did they? This might happen before play starts, but since each lab will be customized differently, it's going to take different times for different characters. Viola, for example, has a Magic Theory score of 7, and will spend a couple of years making her lab better.
Since you've already got a lab in mind, why don't you describe that lab--its layout, what state it's in when we arrive (it would probably have been a lab in the ruined covenant, but need not be)--and describe the section of the covenant around it. If we all do that, we should be able to work up a pretty good detailed description of the covenant. Remember that your section might include a visitor lab or two as well.
Any of those could work, and a couple of them would fill obvious niches.
Scott
It's reasonably close to the falcon in [i]Book of Mundane Beasts[i], so that's fine. What's his Size, though, -1? If you're just basing it off a similar species, BTW, I wouldn't worry about how Qualities modify Characteristics--just worry about the end state, really, though I guess it's important that you don't leave him with a Quality that no longer describes him.
I don't think there are a lot of birds of prey that are aggressive except to other birds of their species, but then I'm not ornithologist--find out what species of eagles live where Aetus and from, and what their habits are like.
Scott
Thank-you.
I'm assuming the stones have a total load of one for encumbrance purposes (for comparison, an axe also has a load of one), and are about slingshot size (just thrown very hard by the spell). I'd guess this equates to about a dozen stones, if it ever becomes relevant?
There is one season used for planning, one for refining and one for installing the Golden Dove Item
I'll describe it when I know whether Arya's special labs are available.
I'll do them all - some can become NPCs. That's what holidays are for.
So if things do work out such that keeping Portia is a viable option, I'm thinking that Creo doesn't really fit a monkey very well; Sunshine as I conceive of him should really be an Intellego familiar.
Vim works for everything so I'm not worried about the Form. But for Technique? Only thing I can think of is a beaver or that ibis like bird from RoP:M that has healing like powers. I forget the name, think it starts with a C though. (No books now-- posting from work.) Since it looks like too much work to build a familiar from scratch, and since there are going to be magical birds hanging about, I'm thinking about picking the healing bird thing. More rapport with fellow magi is always good. Would that be okay? And can I assume I can distill enough vis to teach her Magic Theory for a couple seasons?
Caladrius
Secondary Character
Ultimus ex Verditius
A steelcrafter that cannot cast formulaic spells at all, trying to build the ultimate sword (Caedorus Parma), armor and shield. Other Verditius think him very odd - because he has sworn never to initiate into any of their inner virtues. This character also is an exercise in indulging munchkinism - it's good to have him in a lab creating useful stuff most of the time.
Virtue
Verditius Magic (House Virtue)
Puissant MT
Skilled Parens
Ash Gild trained
LLSM
Affinity MT
Affinity perdo
Improved characteristics
Book learner
Flaws:
Magic animal companion
Rigid magic
Unstructured caster
Humble
Judged Unfairly
Exciting experimentation
That's fine. I think you're referring to the Caladrius--it's a companion-level character with Might 14 (Might 10, plus 2 for Size, plus 2 for Improved Might x2). It's got Cunning, but its Characteristics add up to 7 points, so you could just make it exceptional, and take Int -1 vs. Cunning -1 (or vary the numbers a bit if you like).
You can assume teaching her Magic Theory somehow, but we still need to work out how that's gonna work. It may be the case, if most familiars start with at least Int 0 and rather low levels of Might, that the vis involved won't be much of an issue for grog-level characters (base Might 3). Mind you, smaller animals have higher Might, but you can take the Reduced Might Inferiority.
For the Caladrius, for example, given your ridiculous Magic Theory score (10), you could normally impart 13 XP's a season through Training while you're doing labwork (the familiar couldn't be helping you, but it wouldn't take any time out your own work and study), which is below the bird's Might. However, 7 pawns of vis would fix that. By contrast, a grog-level bird of Size -2 would have a Might of 5, and could therefore get 8 XP's/season through Traning--even for a magus with a more reasonable level of Magic Theory, like 5 or 6, that's 3 or 4 points a season, which is not bad. Add a +3 Teaching Lab Specialization, and Portia could actually eke out 2 XP's a season training a RAW Caladrius without vis.
If we stick with the RAW, then, there's a very good reason to take grog-level familiars, but a magus with very high Magic Theory could train a companion-level character, especially one with larger Size or Reduced Might, quite easily, if somewhat slowly. (I'd still be inclined to impose a cost in the familiars guidelines for the companion-level animal, since such an animal could just take Reduced Might, and thereby not only be easier to teach, but get a bunch of Qualities in compensation for the Inferiorities). I'm starting to think that the RAW might work OK for a mid-level saga--it's the high-power sagas (esp. if every magus wants a familiar with Might 30 or more) where things break down.
OK, I just made the strangest discovery. I've been playing Viola, literally for years now, as having Incomprensible--that would make training a familiar pretty tough. However, I just checked her character sheets, indeed, both of the earlier ArM5 sheets, and her original ArM4 sheet, and she's never had Incomprehnsible, just "Incomprehesible" as the specialization for her Com (which is -2), but I don't think ArM5 even uses Characteristic Specializations anymore.
Man, that completely fouled up the education of her familiar in her last saga. Mind you, a Size -12 butterfly, even at grog level, will have a Might of 15, so she's still going to have trouble training him without vis, but I can always take Reduced Might on him--the rules weren't really written for characters with Size -12. 
Oh, here's another idea: use mostly the RAW, but, just as the familiar bond gives a +5 or +10 bonus for enchantment with the appropriate Arts, allow the magus a +5 bonus when Teaching or Training a familiar. That would allow virtually all familiars (except the most powerful) to learn fairly well without vis, and allow most grog-level familiars to learn at the regular rate.
Scott
I've been talking to Arya in PM's about what blacksmithing is and isn't, and checked around the web a little, and apparently, contrary to City & Guild, making swords and weapons is indeed something blacksmiths did historically (though obviously, it would be one possible Specialization of the Craft Ability). We need to work out whether we really need three characters with this Craft, unless we plan to set up a covenant that earns a large portion of its income selling magical and/or mundane weapons.
As for the munchkinism...that's fine, just as long as he's a real character who can be played in stories, and not solely a device for altruisticallyk
equipping the other characters.
Scott
I've given up the verditius. (having a character that at 8pg has a aword that can take down most parma seems a horrible idea)
I like that idea (although it'll mean that Alcimus is unable to learn any Area Lore for the covenant's surroundings. Ah well. that's what I get for having a might 10 not-even-a-familiar-yet).
I don't actually understand what the rules for consuming vis to advance are, though. The relevant text states that
"Magic characters can accumulate and spend experience points just like normal human characters, save for one important limitation: the character's Might Score is always subtracted from its Advancement Total....There is a relatively simple way for the character to circumvent this limitation, however. If the character consumes a pawn of magic vis of any type. he may reduce the penalty to his advancement total by two. For example, if the character [with a source quality of 15 and might 10] were to spend 5 pawns of vis, it could assign all 15 points in its Advancement Total. If the same character consumed 4 pawns, it would have 7 experience points to spend. (Note that this vis lessens the penalty, but does not increase the Advancement Total.)"
To me, this is saying two contradictory things: the initial part seems to say that the vis is subtracted from the penalty; the penalty is 10, so consuming 4 pawns of vis should reduce the penalty by 8, for an overall deduction of 2 and an experience gain of 13. Am iI just misinterpreting it somewhere, or is it actually as contradictory as I think it is?
OK, here's what I think I'm going to do with Viola. I'm cutting out Puissant Muto and Student of Faerie, but since I'm not using the (ArM4) Faerie-raised Merinita anymore, she no longer has Weak Parens, and the extra XP's will make up for the lost bonuses. I can't really cut her below 11 V/F's (rather than 10) without screwing up the character conception (a bookworm, lab-rat Merinita who's good at sponting), but would it be OK if I stuck with 11, in exchange for not taking a Minor Virtue for her second decade after apprenticeship? She'll still take the Personal Vis Source for the first decade.
If that works for everyone, what we have left is this immediately after Gauntlet:
Major Virtues
Strong Faerie Blood--includes Sidhe Beauty (+1 Presence, Eerie Beauty), Natural Longevity (aging rolls start at 50 at -3), Faerie Eyes (see in dark, Second Sight, strange eye color), and access to Faerie Lore
Innate Spontaneous Magic (divide non-fatiguing sponts by 2)
Minor Virtues
Book Learner (+3 to book Study Totals)
Free Expression (+3 to rolls for new works of art)
Great Intelligence (+1 to Intelligence)
Inventive Genius (+3/+6 to Lab Totals for new creations)
Study Bonus (+2 to Art book and vis Study Totals)
Major Flaws
Favors (to faeries in father’s family)
Study Requirement
Minor Flaws
Driven (saving nature from the advance of man)
Faerie Upbringing
Loose Magic
Small Frame (-1 to Size, 4-point wound increments)
Weird Magic (special “botch” die)
In the years since Gauntlet, she's initiated three Mystery Virtues, and also gained Life-linked Spontaneous Magic and Exciting Experimentation from a two-season trip to the Magic Realm. For one of the Mystery Virtues, the SG originally gave her Faerie Friend as the product of an Ordeal, but I think that's a little cheesy, and anyway the faerie in question has never gotten into play. I've changed it to Clumsy, though it doesn't affect her magic, is generally in keeping with the uncontrolled nature of her magic. That gives us this, at the start of play:
Major Virtues
Strong Faerie Blood
Sidhe Beauty (+1 Presence, Eerie Beauty)
Natural Longevity (aging rolls start at 50 at -3)
Faerie Eyes (see in dark, Second Sight, strange eye color)
Access to Faerie Lore
Innate Spontaneous Magic (divide non-fatiguing sponts by 2)
Life-linked Spontaneous Magic (can spend one Fatigue for +5 to spell level)
Minor Virtues
Book Learner (+3 to book Study Totals)
Free Expression (+3 to rolls for new works of art)
Great Intelligence (+1 to Intelligence)
Inventive Genius (+3/+6 to Lab Totals for new creations)
Study Bonus (+2 to Art book and vis Study Totals)
True Friend (Constantine)
Major Flaws
Favors (to faeries in father’s family)
Study Requirement
Minor Flaws
Driven (saving nature from the advance of man)
Faerie Upbringing
Loose Magic
Small Frame (-1 to Size, 4-point wound increments)
Weird Magic (special “botch” die)
Mysteries (Bright Ones)
Arcadian
Arcadian Travel
Arcadian Travel (travel between regiones)
Overconfident (Minor)
Animae Magic
Animae Magic (create faeries)
Clumsy
Potent Spontaneous Magic
Potent Spotaneous Magic (Focus in sponts with fatigue)
Deleterious Circumstances, Iron (halves casting totals vs. target)
Minor Malediction (discomfort from iron)
Favors has only come into play once, and I'm thinking that, once she repaid that favor, maybe she exchanged the Flaw for a new one, possibly Compassionate (but a Major version of that is probably too much) or Deficient Perdo.
Scott