It just means you deduct two points per pawn of vis from the advancement penalty.
And yes, the fact that it keeps you from learning via Exposure, esp. Area Lore for an animal, is the one thing about it that's always annoyed me most. Perhaps we can come up with an exception for that.
Scott
I propose that the advancement penalty apply only to abilities that a standard animal of that type doesn't have by default: if it's on the mundane beast's entry, there's no penalty for a magical beast of that type to learn it. Alternately, have the penalty apply only to academic and arcane abilities. Thus no penalty to things like Brawl, Area Lore, Athletics, etc., but penalties to Magic Theory, arcane Lores, Penetration, etc.
So in the case given above, they do get the 13xp, and the example given in the book is just wrong?
I certainly won't say no to that. I'm tempted to suggest that for abilities, it's only arcane and supernatural ones that get the penalty, as those are the only ones that affect its magical nature, or some such justification. That runs into the question of whether you want martial abilities to be able to advance without restriction. [Trying to submit: Ah, I see Arya's just posted a very similar idea.]
It's a problem for those natural Abilities as well, since a far longer than average lifespan would allow ridiculous scores at those Abilities. I have trouble making an exception except for things that indicate familiarity with the local area, such as (Area) Lore and (Living Language).
Scott
Oh, yeah, I think that second part of the example in the book is wrong--it should be 13 XP's, not 7 (the penalty is reduced from 10 to 2).
Scott
I just looked through the animals in Magic, and none of the mundane ones has (Area) Lore, while only half of the magic ones do (admittedly, they're the ones that would be the most territorial). We could just assume that all animals that regularly roam around a widlerness area are familiar with it, especially since animals are probably interested in different things than a human with (Area) Lore would know--and the familiars would still have an incentive to prowl around the area on a regular basis.
Scott
I did look at it, but was going to ignore it for myself. Honestly, I'm of two minds on the material. And none of the Paths laid out in HOH really sparked any of my interest. I won't say ditch it, in case someone else wants to Criamon. However, I will be sticking with the core book version.
Good point. Greek would make sense.
I like six fingers. I think I'll go with "A man with six fingers, with one eye of green and one eye of blue". There can't be too many of them floating about Mythic Europe. Thanks.
OK, here's a revised version of Familiar Traits. What I've changed:
Familiar Traits
The default familiar is a Summer (360 XP’s) grog-level character (base Might 3), of a species that’s not typically taken as a pet, with Int –3 (formerly had Cunning and Size 0 or less; the familiar does get 6 Characteristics points for this Int).
Positive
Autumn Character (Major): the familiar starts with 720 XP’s.
Companion-level Character (Major): the familiar has a base Might of 10.
Human Intelligence (Minor): the familiar has a maximum Int of +1.
Inconspicuous (Minor): the familiar is of a species normally kept as a pet, or small enough not to be take notice of by most mundanes. A familiar capable of taking an inconspicuous shape or otherwise hiding his true shape from mundanes must take this Trait.
Positive Intelligence (Major): the familiar has a maximum Int of +5.
Negative
At odds (Major): the familiar often disagrees and argues with the magus, and they have trouble cooperating. This familiar should be played by another player.
Independent (Minor): the familiar has his own agenda, and may not always do what the magus would wish (he’ll probably help out in critical lab projects, but he may not want to spend all his free seasons studying Magic Theory). This familiar should be played by another player.
Large (Minor): the familiar is Size +1 or larger, and requires a Minor Lab Virtue rather than a Free Lab Virtue as a lab assistant.
Monstrous appearance (Minor): because of his size or appearance, the familiar tends to inspire panic and/or loathing in mundanes. A familiar capable of taking a less threatening shape or otherwise hiding his true shape from mundanes may not take this Trait.
Spring Character (Minor): the familiar starts with 120 XP’s.
Transformed Animal (Minor): the familiar is magical, but has a base Might of 0 and no Magic Qualities, unless he takes matching Inferiorities. A Transformed Animal starts with normal Abilities for his species (with, perhaps, a few more XP’s for any Abilities necessitated by magical traits).
Warped Animal (Major): the familiar is a Warped Animal, with no Might; he may begin with any Warping Score chosen by the player. A Warped Animal starts with normal Abilities for his species (with, perhaps, a few more XP’s for any Abilities necessitated by magical traits).
Scott
Miklos Fortunato, grog leader
Miklos was born the third son of a significant nobleman. As a young man, he was dashing, a great athlete, and had the potential to become a great diplomat. The young ladies for miles around hoped to marry him.
Then disaster struck: Leprosy. His former friends, his lady admirers and his family disowned him and sent him to a leper colony, a lot further east than strictly necessary, but so deep was their disappointment that their reaction was disproportionate. He died for them, and they died for him.
At the leper colony, young Miklos learned about the life of the begging poor first-hand. Caring little for his life, he participated in all kinds of crazy dares. One day, he fell from a tree he had climbed to pluck apples and hit his head hard.
The other lepers took him to a hovel and nursed his wounds. Lying in bed, he new something had changed. To everybody’s amazement, the lepers in the leper colony healed (though scars would remain and missing body parts wouldn’t grow back), and it all somehow had to do with Mikhail’s touch.
Most men would have turned to God and thank him, but Miklos felt sceptical about a whimsical God that sends people leprosy only to save them later. Instead, he became an unshakeable optimist.
Scarred as they were, some of the ex-lepers wandered east (away from their old lives), earning money as mercenaries and as farm hands. They recognized Miklos as their leader. Along the way, more lepers were healed and some of those also joined Mikhail’s band.
When they came across the covenant, they realized that this place could become a new home for them.
He has since served as captain, and what he lacks in weapon skills and judgment - he always is too optimistic - he makes up with his inspired leadership and sheer unbelievable luck.
Note: This should provide us with ample grogs/servants. We’ll still need some that are not disfigured (for social missions), but if we assume many of them are ex-lepers, we have a good reason for them to stay.
Int +1 (intelligent) Per-1 (one-eyed) Pre+2 (impressive despite scars, optimistic) Com+0 Dex+0 Qik -2 (hampered by single eye) Sta +1 (healthy) Str +3 (muscular body)
Age: 30
Virtues:
1 Inspirational [his optimism makes others hope for the best, too]
1 Puissant Leadership [he seems to know what he does]
1 Greater Purifying Touch (leprosity)
1 Self-confident [he believes: all will end well for me anyway]
1 Custos (Turb sergeant); used to be Mercenary Captain before he got the job
1 Luck
1 tough [not physically, just another aspect of his luck]
1 privileged Upbringing [son of a nobleman]
Flaws:
1 Missing Eye [due to leprosy]
1 Missing Ear [due to leprosy]
1 Disfigured [leprosy scars, missing eye and ear]
3 Optimistic (Major) [he just knows how lucky he is. This sometimes disturbs others,but so far he has always been right]
1 Weakness (lepers and beggars) [he hasn’t forgotten how it was]
1 Close ties to people he has healed (new minor story flaw) [some follow him andsometimes look to him to solve their problems]
Skills 470xp
45 Early childhood+50 privileged upbringing+375xp (=25 years of 15xp)
Native Language Greek (poetry) 5
5 Animal Handling (Horses) 1
15 Area Lore around covenant (military questions) 2
30 Athletics (climbing) 3
5 Awareness (searches) 1
15 Brawl (fist) 2
15 Carouse (staying sober) 2
15 Chirurgy (stabilizing) 2
15 Medicine (leprosy) 2
5 Etiquette (nobility) 1
30 Folk Ken (his men) 3
50 Leadership (his men) 4 +2
15 Legerdemain (card games) 2
5 Order of Hermes Lore (grogs) 1
50 Profession Soldier (command) 4
30 Profession beggar (clerical alms) 3
15 Ride (in battle) 2
5 Survival (woods) 1
5 Swim (currents) 1
15 Teach (more than two students) 2
5 Artes Liberales (two alphabets) 1 [Latin, Greek]
15 Civil and Canon Law (covenant area) 2
50 Latin (magi) 4
50 Single Weapon (with Heater Shield) 4
Equipment:
Mail Hauberk and Coif (protection: +6) Load 3
Heater Shield Load 2
Longsword Load 1
Load 6 Encumbance 0
Soak: Sta 1 + armor 6 + tough 3 = +10
Attacks:
Longsword and Heater Shield: Init 0, Attack +9, Defense +6, Damage +9
Brawl (Fist): Init -2, Attack +3, Defense 0, Damage +3
..............................................
I assume Greek is the covenant language and local language
If he starts with superior Equipment, his boni increase
How does this work with converting existing magical animals?
You mean examples from RoP: Magic? If they fit the criteria, you can take them as familiars. If not, you can always modify them or make up something similar from scratch. They don't change the character generation rules, but rather they simply act as guidelines to various different types of familiar.
If people don't think these are fair, we can go with something else. At one time, for example, the Andorra saga proposed (but never used) a system that made it easier for a familiar to advance, but the reduction to the advancement penalty would have been greater for familiars that were smaller or had lower Might. That saga later did actually use a system to allow "Bond Qualities" to be instilled at the time of bonding (similar to the ArM4 system), with its being easier to instill them in weaker familiars--this latter though I find unnecessarily complex, since it duplicates bond enchantment and magic Powers.
My intent with the Familiar guidelines was to provide some balance but with maximum flexibility and without changing a lot of the rules.
Scott
He looks fine to me, though if we end up on the Black Sea, a name like "Miklos" might be more appropriate.
Scott
Name edited.
The resident Verditius are welcome to equip their grog serge with fancy toys.
grog sergeant wish list:
no permanent spells that affect him - they cause warping!
I'll not create further companions/magi for now, but I can do other people's magical animals/familiars.
I'll also build some grogs (redshirts).
That would be great!
Scott
Assuming we've known each other a while, would Aetos raise a Caladrius' intelligence magically in exchange for a (hopefully non-disastrous) longevity ritual?
True Leprosy (as opposed to magical leprosy) is explicitly a divine curse for unclean living according to Ars & Academe - basically, if God wants you to get it, you get it. If we're going with that, that presumably implies that (although he may not be aware of it IC), the Greater Purifying Touch is of divine origin?
Here's a draft version of my magus, immediately after his Gauntlet. I'll advance him a couple of years before he joins the covenant. He's fairly low-powered, as I've focused on abilities that make sense given his background. Although the background is still not fully written out, I've included some of it in the Basic Concept section.
Gorianus Ex Miscellanae, traditionis Artifices Rodes
Filius Brictius Ex Miscellanea, traditionis Artifices Rodes
Basic Concept
Gorianus is magus of House Ex Miscellanea, from the Slavic tradition of the Artisans of Rod. This tradition focuses on creation in general, and more specifically on the crafting of magical devices. The name of the tradition comes from the pagan god Rod, who in Slavic myth created the world.
The son of a blacksmith who kept travelling to escape from enemies, Gorianus (born to the name of Gorzyslaw) barely escaped with his life when those enemies caught up with his family. He was taken in by Brictius, who had been keeping track of the family as well, knowing that the boy had potential for magic.
It was his father who left him this potential for magic as a legacy -- a complete immunity to fire and heat. During Gorianus' apprenticeship, Brictius told him this might be because one of his ancestors may have bathed in the blood of the dragon Smok Wawelski, who was killed near Kraków soon after it was founded by the legendary King Krak.
Brictius had no idea how to integrate blacksmithing as part of his tradition, so he resorted to teaching his own craft of woodworking. Gorianus was then able to integrate his skill as a smith into the magic he was taught. Now, whenever he is smithing (or working with wood), he can be heard muttering over his current project, using his magic intiutively to enhance his work.
From short experience as an orphan, alone and desperate, he was left with a deep need to help children in similar situations. He is almost always taking care of one or more children in need, and strives to find them a welcoming family. In the meantime, he takes care of them -- providing food and as much safety as he can, given his own occupation. [Design note: This is the "Dependent" flaw, although it also includes some elements of the "Compassionate". If it is felt that this flaw is impratical for the saga, or that this is not really a Major flaw, this could be replaced by Enemies, as his father's enemies hunt for him as well.]
I am open to comments! 
Would you have known each other for a while, or are you coming from different covenants?
Scott
I was under the impression we would both have been here at the Camp for a while.