Especially for things that happen before play begins, I'm fine with this, and I'd say you should gain new ones so that they still balance. (Also see the house rule on gaining extra Virtues before play.)
Scott
Thanks for the clarification and help Scott and Salutor. I'll re-work the character to be strict Gauntlet magus for starting stats, then provide a new season by season breakdown, then final stat block soon.
Might have to find a service to post a link to the character too, rather than posting large blocks here; I don't want to flood the thread.
cheers,
Don't worry about flooding the thread. The reason I link to an external site is because I originally made my characters in Word, and while I can easily convert that to HTML (some of the formatting is off, but it works well enough), I can't post it on here without retyping everything.
Scott
OK here goes, an updated version. I have fixed the xp mistake with the book levels, and I think corrected all the other areas (specialities, stats). While contemplating over the past day or so I also realised that I could make a few more nice spell effects. I hope this is darn close.
Some of the spell effects have questions noted, where I am not sure of the final effect levels; so I've included my working.
Fray, Beginning Magus of Bonisagus
Should be Abilities 215, Arts 115, Spells 120
Characteristics: Int +3, Per 0, Pre -3, Com -2, Str +2, Sta +3, Dex +1, Qik 0
Size: 0
Age: 23 (23), Height: 180 cm, Weight: 90 kg, Gender: Male
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0 (0)
Confidence: 1 (3)
Virtues and Flaws: Affinity with Magic Theory, Affinity with Muto, Book Learner (Book Quality: +3), Flexible Formulaic Magic, The Gift, Hermetic Magus, Inventive Genius (Invent Lab Totals: +3), Minor Magical Focus (self transformation), Personal Vis Source (Corpus) [Location: Annual self blooding ritual in Spring], Puissant Magic Theory, Puissant Muto, Deficient Technique (Intellego), Difficult Longevity Ritual, True Love [Wife], Weird Magic (Botches on Stressed Casting: Extra botch die)
Personality Traits: Just +2, Patient +1, Curious +1
Combat:
Dodge: Init: +0, Attack , Defense +1, Damage
Fist: Init: +0, Attack +3, Defense +2, Damage +2
Kick: Init: 1, Attack +2, Defense +0, Damage +5
Sword, Great: Init: +2, Attack +9, Defense +5, Damage +11
Staff: Init: +2, Attack +6, Defense +5, Damage +4
Soak: +6
Fatigue levels: OK, 0, 1, 3, 5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: 1 (1 5), 3 (6 10), 5 (11 15), Incapacitated (16 20), Dead (21+)
Abilities: Latin 5 (hermetic usage), Artes Liberales 1 (ritual magic), Finesse 1 (Corpus), Magic Theory 5+2 (Muto), Parma Magica 1 (Corpus), Penetration 1 (Muto), Etiquette 1 (peasants), Charm 1 (being witty), Folk Ken 1 (peasants), Area Lore: Brittan 2 (side ways and paths), Awareness 1 (searching), Athletics 1 (running), Brawl 1 (Fist), Order of Hermes Lore 1 (artefacts), English 5 (scholars), French 1 (lowborn phrases), Great Weapon 2 (Sword, Great)
Arts: Cr 0, In 2, Mu 12+3, Pe 0, Re 0, An 5, Aq 0, Au 0, Co 5, He 0, Ig 0, Im 0, Me 0, Te 5, Vi 5
Equipment: Partial Leather Scale Armor (Soak: 6) (Soak: 6; Protection: 3)
Encumbrance: 0 (2)
Spells Known:
Bind Wound (CrCo 10) +8
Cloak of Black Feathers (MuCo(An) 30) +28
Doublet of Impenetrable Silk (MuAn 15) +23
Disguise of the New Visage (MuCo 15) +23
Eyes of the Cat (MuCo(An) 5) +23
Gift of the Bear's Fortitude (MuCo 25) +28
Preternatural Growth and Shrinking (MuCo 15) +23
Circle of Beast Warding (ReAn 5) +8
Year 1 (x2 warping)
o Winter - Study Summae Creo. Quality 14+3, now 5 (15)
o Spring - Study Summae Creo. Quality 10+3, now 7 (28)
o Summer - Story – Who Are My Magus Neighbours. A story based upon travelling to greet and meet the other members of the Stone Henge tribunal. Season is spent in the story and joining a small Spring covenant in Stonehenge. Sets up the use of correspondence for later seasons (10 xp, in +5 Parma, +5 Folk Ken)
o Autumn - Study Summae Herbam. Quality 14+3, now 5 (15)
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Personal Vis - Corpus +3
· Year 2 (x2 warping)
o Winter - Summae Herbam. Quality 10+3, now 7 (28)
o Spring - Story - Politic of Stone Henge. The new covenant begins its first tentative steps into the tribunal as a separate power, and trouble quickly follows. (10 xp, = +3 Hermes Lore, +3 Parma, +4 Great Weapon)
o Summer – Study Summae Rego. Q14+3. Rego now 5 (15)
o Autumn – Study Tractus on Muto (1st). Quality 10+3. Muto now 13 (65)
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Personal Vis - Corpus +3
· Year 3 (x2 warping – Warp 1)
o Winter - Study Summae Corpus, Quality 10+3. Corpus now 7 (28)
o Spring - Study Summae Corpus, Quality 10+3. Corpus now 8 (41)
o Summer – Study Summae Rego, Quality 10+3. Rego now 7 (28)
o Autumn – Covenant Duty. Exposure xp. +2 Folk Ken
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Personal Vis - Corpus +3
· Year 4 (x2 warping)
o Winter - Study Summae Animal, Quality 10+3. Animal now 7 (28)
o Spring - Study Summae Animal, Quality 10+3. Animal now 8 (41)
o Summer – Study Tractus Animal (1st), Quality 10+3. Animal now 9 (54)
o Autumn – Study Tractus on Muto (2nd). Quality 10+3. Muto now 14 (78). No more Tractus allowed in Muto in this 5 year span.
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Animal +1 xp. Should make Animal now 10(55)
o Personal Vis - Corpus +3
· Year 5 (x2 warping)
o Winter – Season of dedicated work for another Magus to get Longevity potion crafted, as my own arts are far lower than needed.
o Spring - Story –Beginning of the Wars. A magus from his covenant and another start the first of many Wizards Wars, and it becomes clear that Stone Henge will be rife with politics and trouble. (10 xp. +5 Parma, +5 Intrigue)
o Summer – Study Tractus Animal (2nd), Quality 10+3. Animal now 10 (65)
o Autumn – Longevity potion created by longevity expert. Lab total unknown.
o Correspondence - Animal +1 xp. Should make Animal now 11(66)
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Corpus +1 xp. Corpus now 8 (42)
o Personal Vis - Corpus +3
· Year 6 (x2 warping)
o Winter - Study Tractus Corpus (1st), Quality 10+3. Corpus now 10 (55)
o Spring - Study Tractus Corpus (2nd), Quality 10+3. Corpus now 11 (68)
o Summer – Study Tractus on Muto (1st). Quality 10+3. Muto now 16 (91).
o Autumn – Study Tractus on Muto (2nd). Quality 10+3. Muto now 17 (104).
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp . Now score 5(64)
o Personal Vis - Corpus +3
· Year 7 (x2 warping)
o Winter – Invent spells
§ “Return of the Master’s Voice” (MuAn15). As per Voice for the Bjornaer, HoH-MCp36. (Base 5, +2 Sun).
§ “Poise of the Cat” (MuCo5/An). Grants the magus the sense of balance and poise akin to a cat, apply a +3 bonus (too much?) on rolls for appropriate Athletics checks. (Base:3, +2 Sun).
§ I debated if this was level 2 or 3, but think that the physiological changes to assist balance are slightly more than eyes or similar spells, so level 3 base. If not acceptable I’ll sub in another effect.
§ “Eyes of the Bat” (MuCo4/An). Grants the magus a sonar sense to see in total darkness. (Base:2, +2 sun).
§ “Senses of the Bloodhound” (MuCo5/An). Grants the magus enhanced sense of hearing and smell akin to bloodhounds. (Base: 2, +2 sun, +1 extra sense, req free).
§ L15+5+4+5 = 29 vs (Int3+MaTh7+SpecMaTh1+Aura5+Mu17+3+(Co/An11)x2 +similar6) LT=64
§ +2 Magic Theory xp from spell invention. Now score 5(66)
o Spring – Invent spells
§ “Shape of the Woodlands Prowler” MuCo/An20. A version of the normal spell, with target Personal. (Base: 10, +2 Sun)
§ “Disguise of the Chameleon” MuAn10. Allows the caster to change the cosmetic appearance of their current animal form for a short period. Size is limited to affect up to size +1 creatures. (Base: 5 change an animal in a minor way so it is no longer natural, +1 Diameter).
§ Levels 20+10 vs (Int3+MaTh7+SpecMaTh1+Aura5+Mu17+3+(Co/An11)x2 +similar6) LT=64.
§ +2 Magic Theory xp from spell invention. Now score 5(68)
o Summer – Invent spells
§ “Shape of Fearsome King” (MuCo25/An). Changes the magus into a Lion form. Base 10, +2 Sun, +1 due to extra size requirement of lion form.
§ “The Incubus’s Trick” (MuCo5). As per HoH-S, p97 (Base 3, +2 Sun)
§ (Int3+MaTh7+SpecMaTh1+Aura5+Mu17+3+(Co/An11x2)+Invent3+similar3) LT=64.
§ +2 Magic Theory xp from spell invention. Now score 6(70)
o Autumn – Invent two spells
§ “Unearthly Magnification of the Beasts” (MuAn30). Altered form of Beast of Outlandish Size combined with Preternatural Growth and Shrinking - specifically for casting while in an animal form, due to the Personal range. This version allows growth or shrinking of the magus’ form up to size +5/-5. (Base 4 for creatures size +/1, +1 for shrinking and growing, +1 D:Diameter, +4 to raise the size change from +1 to +5)
§ (Int3+MaTh8+SpecMaTh1+Aura5+Mu17+3+(Co/An11x2)+Invent3+similar4) LT=66
§ +2 Magic Theory xp from spell invention. Now score 6(72)
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp. Now score 6(76)
o Personal Vis - Corpus +3
· Year 8 (x2 Warping – Warp 2)
o Winter– Story - Hunting the Covenant’s Foes (10 xp. Parma 5, Mastery in Fearsome King 5) the story that starts the war proper, beginning the time where Fray’s life begins to change. Fray realises he needs more flexibility in his spells.
o Spring - Study Muto from vis, Quality (Aura 5+d=10). Muto now 18 (114)
o Summer – Invent spells
§ “Disguise of the Transformed Image” (MuIm15). As per ArM p146.
§ “Disguise the Words as Written” (MuIm5) Allows the caster to change the contents of a letter or document, re-writing the message, changing seals, and altering signatures to create another message. The letter may also be rendered into jibberish. Useful for sending secret messages by mundane means, and also for altering official documentation (Base 1, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +1 very complex image and text)
§ Levels 20+5+5 vs (Int3+MaTh8+SpecMaTh1+Aura5+Mu18+3+Im0+Invent3) LT=41
§ +2 Magic Theory xp from spell invention. Now score 6 (78)
o Autumn – Study Terram from Summae. Quality 10+3. Terram now 7 (28)
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp
o Correspondence - Magic Theory +1 xp. Magic Theory now 6 (82)
o Personal Vis - Corpus +3
· Year 9 (x2 Warping)
o Winter– Invent spell
§ “Attired as Desired” (MuAn20/HeTe), based upon “Coat of a Hundred Colours” spells Wiki by Andrew Gronosky. Changes all the clothing of the target touched to the desires of the caster. Purpose of the spell is to allow a quick outfit change should circumstances demand, and also so that the clothing of the target to become appropriate foci for the Muto Corpus spells. It saves carrying around five different cloaks. (Base 3, +2 Voice, +2 duration Sun, +1 highly complex clothing).
§ Questions on the spell - Could also be invested with R: Touch if Requisites for the other materials will add magnitude? I’d like the outfit to be able to be fairly ornate or detailed, perhaps with a bonus to Finesse?
§ Lab Total (Int3+MaTh8+MutoSpecalisation+1+Aura5+Mu18+3+AnTeHe7+Invent3)=48
§ +2 Magic Theory xp from spell invention. Magic Theory now 6 (84)
o Spring – Invent spell
§ “Polymorph the Belligerent Rabble” (MuCo30/An) This spell changes the targets into sheep. (Base 10, +1 Touch, +1 Diameter, +2 Group).
§ LT (Int3+MaTh8+MutoSpecalisation+1+Aura5+Mu18+3+Co/An11+Invent3)= 52
§ +2 Magic Theory xp from spell invention. Magic Theory now 6 (86)
o Summer - Continue making spell, takes two seasons to complete.
§ +2 Magic Theory xp from spell invention. Magic Theory now 6 (88)
o Autumn – Study Summae on Perdo. Qual 14+3. Perdo now 5 (15)
o Correspondence - Muto +1 xp
o Correspondence - Muto +1 xp
o Correspondence - Muto +1 xp
o Correspondence - Muto +1 xp, now 18(118)
o Personal Vis - Corpus +3
· Year 10 (x2 Warping)
o Winter– Writing - his custom spells for the Bonisagus library. Latin5x20 levels = 100 levels max.
o Spring – Invent spell
§ “Silence the Babbling Fool” (MuCo20). The target of this spell has their eyes and mouth close over, as if they were born that way. (Base 5 to change a person in a minor way so that they are unnatural, +1 Touch, +1 Diameter, +1 Part)
§ LT (Int3+MaTh8+MutoSpecalisation+1+Aura5+Mu18+3+Co11+Invent3)= 52
§ +2 Magic Theory xp from spell invention. Magic Theory now 6 (90)
o Summer – Story called “Love Lost” in this story Fray is badly wounded and burnt while fighting magical enemies, including a Wizard’s Ware between two other proud magi that gets out of hand. Fray’s wife is killed during this story. (10 xp. Parma +5, Great Weapon +5). Switch out the True Love (-3) flaw for Lost Love (-1), Disfigured (-1), Continence (-1).
o Autumn – Recovery from wounds, no activity.
o Correspondence - Muto +1 xp
o Correspondence - Muto +1 xp
o Personal Vis - Corpus +3
Advancement Summary
Arts: Cr 7, In 2, Mu 18(118), Pe 5, Re 7, An 11(66), Aq 0, Au 0, Co 11(68), He 7, Ig 0, Im 0, Me 0, Te 7 (28), Vi 5
Skills: Magic Theory 6(90) +1, Parma Magica 2(23), Folk Ken 2(17), OoH Lore 1(13), Great Weapon 2(19), Intrigue 1(5)
I like "Silence the Babbling Fool". Other comments:
- I think you're still overspending apprenticeship only xp. His Artes Liberales, Finesse, Magic Theory, Parma Magica, Penetration, and Great Weapon scores total 160xp, and he can only start learning them after he starts apprenticeship.
- I haven't checked all of your lab totals in detail, so I may have missed something there.
- “Poise of the Cat” - +3 to balance rolls seems fine. Generally I'd use a guideline of +3 for most cases, and +6 for really really narrow bonuses (which I couldn't think of an obvious way to suddenly make incredibly useful). The only canonical +6 I can remember off the top of my head is a +6 against grappling checks.
- Eyes of the Bat I'm slightly more dubious about, because it seems to be a fairly major rearrangement of both the vocal and the auditory systems. At the least, I'd say it's going to leave you unable to talk or emit any sound other than high pitched squeaking (which has obvious spellcasting implications).
- Unearthly Magnification of the Beast - is there a +1 to affect +2 - +4 beasts in there? I wasn't sure. If so, I think it's level 35 rather than 30.
- You can probably get a lab text of Disguise of the Transformed Image pretty easily, which should leave you time to invent a Moon version of Disguise the Words as Written (which would probably be more useful).
- For Attired as Desired, I reckon it's a question of how much flexibility you want. If it's primarily designed to work on Animal clothes, but you want it to still work if it's got metal buttons, I reckon you can do that without a level addition (and probably just with a casting requisite rather than one built into the spell). If you want the flexibility to also turn a suit of plate mail into an animal skin, that'll cost you a level increase (and would need a base of 5, +2 to affect metal).
Yes. I did the next version by hand, rather than MC. Will post shortly
I'll re-check them.
Hmm, there are other MuCo effects that grant an ability which also do not impart the same degree of disadvantage. I'll have a think if its worth haggling; perhaps just switch it out.
I'm pretty sure the math on this one is right at that level. Base allows size:1 creatures, therefore +1 extra allows a size:2 creature, +2 for s3, +2 for s3, +3 for s4, and +4 for size 5. Unless you mean that it can't affect a size 2 creature, and then I'm not sure how the mechanics are mean to be resolved. Do you pay for the target you affect and the final result size as separate costs, or just in terms of variance between the two?
eg. affect a large man (s1) to size 2 = +1 mag.
affects a size 1 man, to size 3 = +2 mags.
then if you try to affect a size 2 man to size 3 is that +1 mag to affect them, then +1 mag for the increase; or +1 for the man, then +2 mags for the increase?
I went with a cost based upon the difference - happy to alter based upon a ruling.
good idea, thanks!
Question though - does learning from a written version and inventing a spell come as the same type of magical activity for combining lab activity? The text on ArM p102 mentions "learning spells" vs "instilling powers" vs " creating potions". I suppose even when a mage learns from a text they are really creating a personalised version of the spell, so that makes sense.
Good point, I forgot the metal aspect requires +2 - I'll update that as I want it included so that all the caster's gear is modifiable. Except precious metals, gems, etc.
Thought a bit more about this, and you only pay the difference. An example is the guidelines for Terram. "The amount of material you can change is limited by each end. Thus you can turn a cubic pace of stone, into a cubic inch of gemstone with base Individual."
This means that the same affect was further enhanced, the cubic inch of gemstone would be affected by increased mags from there; not paid for again from scratch. Reasonable?
I would think so.
Scott
To my mind, the issue is that all of these Muto spells work by changing a part of you, which happens to give you an appropriate ability. In this case, you're changing two parts - voicebox and ears, and a natural consequence of changing a voicebox to be like that of a bat's is that it's no longer going to be that of a human, and thus not capable of what a human's is.
My interpretation of that rule was that yes, you could do both lab texts and inventing your own spell in one season. I think it's reasonable.
Okay, let's run with that.
OK, I just looked at this again, and I'm not sure I even understand the question. I do think increasing the size of a big thing is going to be harder than increasing the size of a small thing by the same amount--and I'm not sure how the Terram example applies, since it has nothing to do with size changes, but with the base targets for different types of earth.
Scott
Note that the Size value and the Target's size are two completely different things.
I'm not sure what that means, either.
Scott
The description of Beast of Outlandish Size "changes the Size of an animal by +1", in other words, it doubles the mass of the animal. Whereas the Growth of the Creeping Things takes an animal of Size -9 and makes it "grow to 5 times its normal size" which is ACTUALLY still only doubling the mass, really.
Right. I think though the question was whether you have to add both this modifier for the (original) size of the target and a modifier for how much its size is increased (from the original). I would think you do--I don't see anything in the canon spells to indicate otherwise.
Scott
Yes, that was the question, but I came to a different conclusion. My understanding is that the spell effect has two parts: the cost to affect the target, and the cost to change the target relative to it's base size. You pay for the change in size, not the end size.
My question was to clarify how you'd calculate an effect which changes a size 2 creature to size 5?
My conclusion is that once the size of the spell target has been determined and paid for, then the spell only need pay for the extra size being added or subtracted from the Target's starting size. Simply each extra size beyond the base effect increases the spell costs by +1 magnitude. Equally each size decrease of -2 costs +1 magnitude.
This is kind of illustrated in Beast of Outlandish size, but its not really clear. The base target size of up to 1 is increased by +1 according to the effect. So size 1 becomes size 2. This spell demonstrates that the final size of the target is not important, just that the effect changes the creature by +1 size. A small dog could be changed from size -2 to size -1 with this spell. It also demonstrates that a size 1 pony could not be made as small as a house cat, as the degree of change is too large. Also a house cat could not be made to the size of a pony.
The same spell could be enhanced in power to change the targeted creature by two sizes instead of one, which would add one magnitude to the base effect. This is again due to the change in size of the natural creature by two size increments. So a size 1 creature becomes a size 3 creature, or a size -2 creature becomes size 0.
In creating “Unearthly Magnification of the Beasts” MuAn25:
- Base 4 effect to target any creature up to size 1 (Size 1 can become size 2, as long as the target only increases by 1 size, or decreases by -2 size),
- +1 allow for for shrinking and growing
- +1 to make the spell last D:Diameter,
- +1 to affect targets of size 2 or smaller (now size 2 can become size 3, as long as the target only increases by 1 size, or decreases by -2 size).
- +2 mags to increase the size change by 2 extra size shifts, shifting by 3 size ranks maximum. So 2 can become 5, or -3 to size 0.
My understanding of the guidelines:
- A base effect for Animal spell Individual will target a small or large animal, to size 1 (eg. a pony).
- My assumption is that there is no minimum size that can be targeted with an Individual spell. eg. If you have a spell that affects a Pony, then you can affect a small dog (size -2), or a house cat (-4) with it. This means the size of Individual is up to +1, with no minimum.
- It seems that a base effect of 4 for Muto Animal will allow an increase of +1, or a decrease of -2 in size in the target.
eg. Beast of Unnatural Size adds +1 size to a targeted creature, so a size +1 creature becomes size +2.
eg. Preternatural Growth and Shrinking. This spell makes a large human up to size +2, or a small person down to size -3, which demonstrated that the size shift is +1 or -2 size. - To both increase or decrease the size of a Target in one spell is +1 mag. Also from Preternatural Growth and Shrinking.
- To affect a larger target than base Individual seems to be a +1 mag per size increment needed to affect the target. So Lifting the Dangling Puppet could be re-designed to target humans up to size +2 by increasing the spell by +1 mag.
If however the target creature's final size must also be costed in the spell design, the the spell design figures how I had paid for it originally as a level 30 MuAn spell:
- Base 4 effect to target any creature up to size 1, and increase its size by +1. This makes the max creature size 2 after the spell is cast at base effect.
- +1 allow for for shrinking and growing in the same spell,
- +1 to make the spell last D:Diameter,
- +1 to affect targets of size 2 or smaller instead of size 1 or smaller,
- +3 mags to increase the maximum final size of the creature from size 2 to size 5.
All that said I'm quite happy with either approach. Its more a question of nailing down the calcs so that I don't get them wrong in the future.
I agree with the logic which ironboundtome has just presented. I think the precedent is pretty clearly established in MRB, and that the spell should be MuAn 25. But....well, it's not my game 
[Emphasis added]
I think that that agrees with what I wrote, which means that either I'm confused or you are.
Scott
Scott - to confirm the ruling: the first worked example is correct? MuCo25.
I found that last comment vague.
What I was trying to say is that you definitely pay for 1) the original size of the target (I used the word "original"...er...originally) and 2) the change itself. If I'm not completely confused, you were asking whether you should also pay for the end size of the target, and I don't see any good argument that you should.
Scott