Character Development

Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Base Camp
1863

It does say "normally" rather than "always" - there are reasons you might take the apprentice earlier, such as worrying someone else will claim them.

I do agree there will be some teachers of Gothic around, but I'd expect them to mostly be other Bjornaer - it's an academic ability the Bjornaer use for their secret rituals. I do agree that those outside Clan Ilfetu with have Bjornaer Lore (you need it to be initiated into the later mysteries, for a start - for example you need BL 5 just to work out what's going on with the Inner Heartbeast), but I can't find a reference where it says that all the Clan Chiefs need Gothic for the Ritual of Twelve Years?

I'll leave it to MTKnife as to how he feels about two magi - rereading the "About this Saga" thread I see it does say " In addition to a main character, players are encouraged to create a second, "B-team" character, probably a Companion but possibly another magus, in order have a character to play if the main character's story is stalled", but so far everyone who's had a second character has made them a companion.

1864

...and, honestly, the companions are getting no love as it is. I'd really like to encourage ourselves to branch out into the additional roleplaying possibilities that the companions open up.

Scott

1865

HoH:MC p16 col 1 near the top, "The Bjornaer Council intone[s] an ancient Gothic ritual . . ." This is effectively casting a spell and probably needs an understanding of Gothic in the same way that Hermetic Magi must have Latin/Greek to be able to cast Hermetic spells.

I should have said "virtually compulsory."

It might be that some custos of clan Ilfetu are able to teach Gothic unless seasons spent teaching/learning Gothic form part of initiation scripts. hermetic magi teach magic theory, Latin, Greek , and other abilities to mundanes.

I've been trying to find a home for Shuba for ages and would really like to take him out for a trot. I won't be tremendously upset if the final word is "No." (sniff, sigh. . .) I'll have a think about a companion.

1866

You could learn a Gothic ritual, reciting it in Gothic if necessary, without learning Gothic: you can easily do it by rote. The distinctive feature of Hermetic magic--and the reason it requires working knowledge of Latin--is that it's flexible. In other words, you have to create new sentences, not just recite memorized ones.

Scott

1867

Good Point, and true for the clan leaders.

How, then, does a Bjornaer Magum write a new initiation script, which I suppose are written (and spoken?) in Gothic? Writing them in Greek or Latin would leave the lore too easily available to non-Bjornaer.

Such as Privileged Upbringing, which is a little more flexible.

1868

Gaileswinþa Bjornaer Ilfetwis (Gailswintha)
Characteristics:
Int +2 (Cerebral), Per +2 (Perspicacious), Pre +2 (Assured), Com +2 (Precise),
Str 0 (Unremarkable), Sta +1 (Hardy), Dex 0 (Normal), Qik 0 (Typical)

Size: 0
Age: 25 (22),
Height: 168 cm,
Weight: 72 kg,
Gender: Female
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0 (0)
Confidence: 1 (3)

Virtues:
The Gift,
Hermetic Magus,
Heartbeast (Grey Heron),
Improved Characteristics (×2),
Inoffensive to Mundane Animals,
Good Teacher,
Affinity with Bjornaer Lore,
Puissant Bjornaer Lore,
Privileged Upbringing (50/50),
Educated (50/50),
Clan Ilfetu (50/50),
Skilled Parens,

Flaws:
Study Requirement,
Black Sheep,
Driven (Mundane Heartbeasts),
Feral Scent (Penalty: ‑1 on social interactions)

Personality Traits:
Pagan Belief +2,
Focussed +3,
Wilderist +2

Reputations:
Mad Mystagogue 2,
Unclean 2

Combat:
Dagger: Init: +0, Attack +2, Defense +0, Damage +3
Fist: Init: +0, Attack +0, Defense +0, Damage +0
Kick: Init: ‑1, Attack +0, Defense ‑1, Damage +3
Dodge: Init: +0, Attack ‑‑, Defense +0, Damage ‑‑

Soak: +1
Fatigue levels: OK, 0, ‑1, ‑3, ‑5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: ‑1 (1‑5), ‑3 (6‑10), ‑5 (11‑15), Incapacitated (16‑20), Dead (21+)

Abilities:
Slavic 5 (East Slavonic),
Awareness 3 (observation), [Ch 15 LL 15]
Charm 3 (persuasion), [Ch 15 LL 15]
Folk Ken 3 (temperaments), [Ch 15 LL 15]
Survival 3 (Wilderness), [LL 30]
Covenant Lore: Thousand Caves 2 (personalities), [PU 15]
Latin 3 (hermetic usage) (5), [Ed 35]
Gothic 3 (hermetic usage), [PU 30]
Magic Theory 3 (Terram),
Artes Liberales 2 {Latin and Gothic Scripts} (ritual magic), [Ed 15]
Philosophiae 1 (ritual magic), [PU 5]
Bjornaer Lore 5+2 (initiating others), [Clan Ilfetu 50 + Affinity 25]
Code of Hermes 1 (mundane relations),
Parma Magica 1 (Mentem),
Heartbeast 1 (into heartbeast),

[Order of Hermes Lore 0 (history), Etiquette 0, Leadership 0, Teaching 0, Finesse 0, Penetration 0 Place holders for advancement]

Arts:

Cr 4, In 4, Mu 8, Pe 8, Re 8,
An 4, Aq 4, Au 4, Co 0, He 4,
Ig 6, Im 4, Me 0, Te 7, Vi 7

Equipment:
Good quality clothes
Wizardly Robes
Dagger
Encumbrance: 0 (0)

Spells Known:
The Voice of the Bjornaer Magus (MuAn 15) +14, Mastery 1, (Still Casting)
Circle of Beast Warding (ReAn 5) +13
Doublet of Impenetrable Silk (MuAn 15) +13
Hornet Fire (Mu(Re)Ig 10) +15
Aura of Ennobled Presence (MuIm 10) +13
Wizard's Sidestep (ReIm 10) +13
Crest of the Earth Wave (ReTe 20) +16
The Crystal Dart (Mu(Re)Te 10) +16
Invisible Sling of Vilano (ReTe 10) +16
Rock of Viscid Clay (MuTe 15) +16
Undoing the Stonemason's Handiwork (PeTe 15) +16
Demon's Eternal Oblivion (PeVi 5) +16
Dreadful Bane of the Fae (PeVi 5) +16
Sap the Griffin's Strength (PeVi 5) +16

1869

I do like the idea of "Clan Ilfetu finally have their heron successor...and she's a heretic". It also occurs to me that the local river delta is probably good terrain for a heron, which may help explain why she's ended up at our covenant specifically (that and being miles away from other Bjornaer).

Checking through Gailswintha's stats, my main comments are on the xp - only a score of 3 in Latin feels low for a guantletted non-Ex-Misc. The speciality means she'll be able to read Hermetic texts, but she's only going to be "haltingly functional" when holding conversations with her sodales about things that don't directly relate to Hermetic magic.

I think you've also overspent your apprenticeship xp - by my count you should have 300xp available (thanks to Skilled Parens, but accounting for the other xp granting virtues elsewhere), but you've spent a total of 314 (269 xp in Arts, 30 xp in Magic Theory, 10xp on Abilities and 5 xp on Masteries).

As a more general point - you've sunk a lot of your Virtue points into extra xp. I'd be seriously tempted to drop some combo of Privileged Upbringing, Educated, Skilled Parens, Improved Characteristics and Inoffensive to Animals and just take Gentle Gift instead if you're trying to persuade mundanes to let you initiate them. Then compensate by some combo of having lower Arts (you're not using a bunch of them in your starting spell selection) and giving the maga more post gauntlet years.

On the subject of her spell list - is there a reason a heron is specialising a lot in Terram? The "stereotypical" approach would be Aquam / Auram.

1870

All of which amused me greatly. I have a very warped sense of humour...

Hmmm... Yeeesss...

I used metacreator to do the calculations and there was no report of errors. I'll check to see if I can find and error.

I'll give this approach a try, along with increasing Latin. It's a solid thunk.

I had exactly the same thought when I'd chosen them, as I was still thinking Shuba, then it hit me, "No body expects the Spanish Inquisistion!"

1871

Gaileswinþa Bjornaer Ilfetwis

Characteristics:
Int +2 (Cerebral), Per +2 (Perspicacious), Pre +2 (Assured), Com +2 (Precise),
Str 0 (Unremarkable), Sta +1 (Hardy), Dex 0 (Normal), Qik 0 (Typical)

Size: 0
Age: 30 (27),
Height: 168 cm,
Weight: 72 kg,
Gender: Female
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0 (0)
Confidence: 1 (3)

Virtues:
The Gift,
Hermetic Magus,
Gentle Gift,
Heartbeast (Grey Heron),
Improved Characteristics (×2),
Good Teacher,
Affinity with Bjornaer Lore,
Puissant Bjornaer Lore,
Privileged Upbringing (50/50),
Clan Ilfetu (50/50),
Flaws:
Study Requirement,
Black Sheep,
Driven (Mundane Heartbeasts),
Feral Scent (Penalty: ‑1 on social interactions)

Personality Traits:
Pagan Belief +2,
Focussed +3,
Wilderist +2

Reputations:
Mad Mystagogue 2,
Unclean 2

Combat:
Dagger: Init: +0, Attack +2, Defense +0, Damage +3
Grappling: Init: +0, Attack +0, Defense +0, Damage +0
Fist: Init: +0, Attack +0, Defense +0, Damage +0
Kick: Init: ‑1, Attack +0, Defense ‑1, Damage +3
Dodge: Init: +0, Attack ‑‑, Defense +0, Damage ‑‑
Soak:* +1
Fatigue levels: OK, 0, ‑1, ‑3, ‑5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: ‑1 (1‑5), ‑3 (6‑10), ‑5 (11‑15), Incapacitated (16‑20), Dead (21+)

Abilities:
Ch: 120, PU: 50, LL: 150, Ilfetu: 50 (+25 Aff), App: 240, (Abilities: 75 + Arts: 160 + Mastery: 5)
Slavic 5 (East Slavonic), Ch 75
Awareness 3 (observation), Ch 15, LL 15
Charm 3 (persuasion), Ch 15, LL 15
Folk Ken 3 (temperaments), Ch 15, LL 15
Survival 3 (Wilderness), LL 30
Latin 4 (hermetic usage), PU 30, LL 20
Gothic 4 (hermetic usage), LL 50
Magic Theory 4 (Terram), App 50
Artes Liberales 2 (ritual magic), PU 15
Philosophiae 1 (ritual magic), PU 5
Bjornaer Lore 5+2 (ancestor sites), Ilfetu 50 + [Aff 25]
Code of Hermes 1 (mundane relations), LL 5
Parma Magica 1 (Mentem), App 5
Heartbeast 1 (into heartbeast), App 0
Covenant Lore: Thousand Caves 2 (personalities), App 15
Order of Hermes Lore 1 (history), App 5

Etiquette 0, Leadership 0, Teaching 0, Finesse 0, Penetration 0

Arts: Apprenticeship (Total: 160)
Cr 0, (0)
In 0, (0)
Mu 8, (36)
Pe 8, (36)
Re 8, (36)
An 4, (10)
Aq 0, (0)
Au 0, (0)
Co 0, (0)
He 0,(0)
Ig 0, (0)
Im 0, (0)
Me 0, (0)
Te 6, (21)
Vi 6, (21)

Equipment:
Good quality clothes;
Wizardly Robes;
Dagger

Encumbrance: 0 (0)

Spells Known: Apprenticeship (Total: 120 + Mastery: 5)
The Voice of the Bjornaer Magus (MuAn 15) Mastery 1 (still casting)
Circle of Beast Warding (ReAn 5)
Doublet of Impenetrable Silk (MuAn 15)
Hornet Fire (Mu(Re)Ig 10)
Aura of Ennobled Presence (MuIm 10)
Wizard's Sidestep (ReIm 10)
Crest of the Earth Wave (ReTe 20)
The Crystal Dart (Mu(Re)Te 10)
Invisible Sling of Vilano (ReTe 10)
Demon's Eternal Oblivion (PeVi 5)
Dreadful Bane of the Fae (PeVi 5)
Sap the Griffin's Strength (PeVi 5)

1872
Gaileswinþa Bjornaer Ilfetwis
Abilities: Ch LL PU Ilfetu App
Slavic 5 (East Slavonic), 75 75
Awareness 3 (observation), 30 15 15
Charm 3 (persuasion), 30 15 15
Folk Ken 3 (temperaments), 30 15 15
Survival 3 (Wilderness), 30 30
Latin 4 (hermetic usage), 50 20 30
Gothic 4 (hermetic usage), 50 50
Magic Theory 4 (Terram), 50 50
Artes Liberales 2 (ritual magic), 15 15
Philosophiae 1 (ritual magic), 5 5
Bjornaer Lore 5 (ancestor sites), 50 50
Code of Hermes 1 (mundane relations), 5 5
Parma Magica 1 (Mentem), 5 5
Heartbeast 1 (into heartbeast), 0 0
Covenant Lore: Thousand Caves 2 (personalities) 15 15
OoH Lore 1 5 5
120 150 50 50 75
Mastery 5
Arts:
Cr 0 0
In 0 0
Mu 8 36
Pe 8 36
Re 8 36
An 4 10
Aq 0 0
Au 0 0
Co 0 0
He 0 0
Ig 0 0
Im 0 0
Me 0 0
Te 6 21
Vi 6 21
TOT Apprenticeship Arts 160
TOT Apprenticeship 240
TOT Apprenticeship Spells 120
1873

Almost there I think, but you need to swap Privileged Upbringing for Educated to make your Later Life Latin and Gothic spends legal - both give 50xp, but Educated also allows you to spend other xp on Academic Abilities whilst Privileged Upbringing only allows the specific 50 xp it gives you (but can be spent on Martial as well as Academic - which isn't being used in this case).

Technically you also need to swap round Code of Hermes and Organisation Lore, as the former is an Arcane Ability so needs to be learnt within Apprenticeship, whilst the latter is a general ability so can be learnt outside it. This makes no difference whatsoever to the final character sheet.

1874

OK. Thanks very much. I did wonder about the difference. Thanks for the nod towards GG, a very good call.

In order to change the script from lose familiar to A N other flaw, do I also need to make a change to the location too, or do I just need to find an ancestor site and calculate an appropriate time? Also, would like to hear suggestions on appropriate flaws other than Feral Scent. Could get a little whiffy if that was the only flaw I could reasonably inflict.

I'll make the change to Educated. I might jiggle a couple of abilities to get another 20 (30 with affinity) in Bjornaer Lore, if that's OK with you. It was my intention to advance this character a few years. How do you feel about this?

I have an idea for a Companion: Dis-timed King Harold Godwinson post 1066, been in Arcadia with some Huscarls/Varangian Guardsmen as a Merc Leader. Survived Hastings and via Faerie made it to allies in Scandinavia, then by the rivers to Byzantium and service with one or more emperors over time. Lobs up at the covenant for "reasons."

1875
Gaileswinþa Bjornaer Ilfetwis
Abilities: Ch LL Edu Ilfetu App
Slavic 5 (East Slavonic), 75 75
Awareness 3 (observation), 30 15 15
Charm 3 (persuasion), 30 15 15
Folk Ken 3 (temperaments), 30 15 15
Survival 2 (Wilderness), 15 15
Artes Liberales 2 (ritual magic), 15 15
Philosophiae 1 (ritual magic), 5 5
Order of Hermes Lore 1 (personalities) 5 5
Gothic 4 (hermetic usage), 50 50
Latin 4 (hermetic usage), 50 50
Bjornaer Lore 6+2 (ancestor sites), 50 50 20
Magic Theory 4 (Terram), 50 50
Code of Hermes 1 (mundane relations), 5 5
Parma Magica 1 (Mentem), 5 5
Heartbeast 1 (into heartbeast), 0 0
Covenant Lore: Thousand Caves 2 (personalities) 15 15
120 150 50 50 80
Arts:
Cr 0 0
In 0 0
Mu 8 36
Pe 8 36
Re 8 36
An 4 10
Aq 0 0
Au 0 0
Co 0 0
He 0 0
Ig 0 0
Im 0 0
Me 0 0
Te 6 21
Vi 6 21
160
Apprenticeship 240
Spells 120
1876

I think the stats work now. Giving her more years post gauntlet is fine.

For the initiation script, I don't think you need to change the script to change the location, just find an appropriate site - page 25 of HoH:MC says "The Gathering of Twelve Years is a particularly propitious time for the ritual, but it can take place at any ancestor site, at an appropriate time calculated by the Mystagogue."

Other flaws...Animal Monstrosity (ROP:M pg 48), Anchored to the (Land) (RoP:M pg 47), where the Land is the natural terrain of the Heartbeast, Disfigured (animal features), Afflicted Tongue, Incomprehensible? Some of those are harsher than others, and there's the potential question of how they manifest in animal form.

For the companion - it feels too far out of "theme" for me. Harold has no real connection either to the Black Sea or the Order of Hermes, and his background feels like it would either get ignored or have a major impact on the saga.

1877

Shall I post her in the page for Magi, or wait until I've advanced her?

That's how I read it, I just wanted to check before running wild.

I'll have a shufti at RoP:M. Gaileswinþa already has Feral Scent, so inflicting that Flaw should come easily. Afflicted tongue, or something like it could be amusing, as they all have their speech altered to contain appropriate animal sounds intermixed in their normal speech. "Hey! GROWL/SCREECH get out of SNARL/TWITTER here. Maybe some tics/compulsions/reactions reminiscent of the animals? Also gaining a personality trait as the animal.

Magi Bjornaer always get the same flaw from the ritual. Should this be the same? I'm inclined to think so.

No worries. I have other ideas. I've just finished digging out my old files full of, as yet, un-realised concepts.
Companion: Former Byzantine/Successor State military officer, leading his former soldiers (now Mercs)? Wealthy, after being pensioned off, or looting the treasury, in traditional Byzantine/Varangian style? A ready made, well equipped, well organised, well led turb? I'd need to work him up, and a bunch of military types. Is there a turb at the covenant? Anyone to lead it?

1878

Wait until you've got the final version that's going to be entering play. Then update it periodically if she has downtime later - basically it should always be the "current" sheet.

For a single version of the initiation script, it should be the same flaw, although there might be differences in exactly how the flaw manifests (for example, the Feral scent would presumably vary depending on what their heartbeast is).

We do have a small turb, led by the Companion of one of the people who left the saga fairly on: Companion Character Sheets - #4 by amul. I don't think they ever saw much play (and I don't think the "ex-leper with a band of ex-lepers" has ever come up because no-one ones to take the horribly disfigured grogs with them as their spokespeople), so if you did want to play a turb leader and other people were happy with it you could possibly "modify" them.

1879

K-Ho.

Not tremendously keen on this concept, amusing as it is. Do we have a CrIm specialist? They could be disguised and their scent covered, at least from humies. Animals might till catch a whiff.

I'll take a look, but I think I'd rather build my own ex-soldier/merc group.

LATER
I've looked, and am not keen. Too much work changing him and his story. Easier to write a new story. and make useful turb grogs. They could be ex-Byzantines, or any of the groups of Western European military wandering about the area, with no desire to return to their homes. I like the former Byzantine idea.

If the group wants to keep him then I'll do something else.

1880

I'm having difficulty understanding the rules for complex advancement post gauntlet. Could someone give me a precis, please. I'm a bit thick.

1881

I don't think I've ever tried to use them personally (my character, Gregorius, was created at gauntlet). I think the simplified version is "10xp per season up to level 9 for Arts, then 10xp twice per five years per Art thereafter". For Abilities it's 10xp up to level 4 instead. It's possible to get more xp at very low levels.

There are also various rules for teachers and labwork.

1882

I don't have strong views on keeping Miklos, so I'll see what other people think.